1) Not sure exactly what this is trying to prove. Of course IOs and Incarnate powers can make you able to take on tougher enemies. I don't think that anyone has ever suggested otherwise.
2) A Fire/Elec/Pyre Brute at level 50 should EASILY be able to take on higher levels of difficulty than +0/+1. I don't know why you'd have so much trouble with base difficulty, but it's really not that hard.
3) A heavily-pimped out character will almost always beat a character running on just SOs. However, that assumes many things, like comparing the same build. But an Ice/FF controller with IOs might not be able to kill as fast as a Claws/Fire Brute on SOs. It really depends on a lot of factors.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Define "hang out with".|
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
Is there an SO toon that can hang with a pimped out incarnate toon?
ANY just one? |
If you mean "be roughly as powerful as the same powersets plus IOs and Incarnate powers"? No. IOs and Incarnate powers are obviously far better than SOs and no Incarnate powers.
If it just means pulling their weight on a team, though? Yes, definitely. The vast majority of SO builds can do this with a mildly competent player at the wheel.
And yes, if your brute (any brute, really) can "barely" handle +0/x1 without bosses, you're doing something (or many somethings) really, badly, dramatically, horribly wrong.
1) See Aett's response.
2) See Aett's response.
3) In PvE it doesn't matter. I have less than a dozen characters that are completely IO'd out, and none of them use more than basic IO's. The highest level IO's on those characters are 30.
So I frequently find myself on teams where I'm not only using just SO's, but many times my SO's are red because we are leveling so fast. And I have never once been accused of not carrying my own weight. Cuz I can almost always be found right up in the thick of mob combat even if I'm on a squishy.
The only time being purpled out ever matters in this game is during PvP and that's been dead for years.
My NRG/NRG Brute on my current account (during the period when I was Premium) and my SS/WP Brute on an alternate totally-free account both ran content at +1 easily on SOs. What are you doing that you can barely handle -1?
Subscribed vs. Free doesn't matter for Incarnate content, since that's VIP-only and is supposed to be harder than regular missions.
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Several people on the forums have also admitted they run Incarnate content using SO builds, so IO's don't matter there either.
|
Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
Subscribed vs. Free doesn't matter for Incarnate content, since that's VIP-only and is supposed to be harder than regular missions.
|
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It depends a LOT on the ATs and powersets being compared. Take a character like a Bots/Traps MM using SOs and put them up against an IO'd Incarnated Blaster and the MM could definitely give the Blaster a run for his money. On the other hand an IO'd Incarnated Brute (pick whatever powerset is FotM) will probably out-perform the SO'd Bots/Traps.|
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
now here is the question are all toons like this are any so toons other than random support toons optimal? Is there an SO toon that can hang with a pimped out incarnate toon?
ANY just one? I would love for some information even if anecdotal. |
Now Bots/Traps is one of the strongest powerset combos in the game and is almost certainly a finalist for the "most powerful using SOs" award (if not the winner) while Blasters are a contestant of "weakest AT in the game" so it isn't really a fair comparison.
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Considering people were killing +0 to +2 at x1 or more WITH bosses on SO's long before IO's or incarnate powers I'll take your "test" results with a grain of salt.|
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
Hi me again...
I have a paid account with incarnate etc... and a f2p old account that has only the use of ios there has been a lot of chatter/talk/debate over the years about are ios important is incarnate important or are these necessesary. Well i did a test I dont have numbers and if someone here can let me know of a way to get them ill post them. I can only tell you what is see is real. Ios and incarnate stuff vs a SO toon Dont even bother. The io'd(purpled) incarnate toon is running +4/8 with bosses easily. The non incarnate non iod toon (same build) can barely handle +0 or -1 no bosses. I mean barely i am praying for the right insp to drop in missons. its a fire/elec/pyre brute I use to farm purples and pl. I thought i would make one on the freebie and pl myself a little. Its ok its playable but the diference is like a bicycle to a Mclaren F1. They can both get you to a point you want to be at but one is faster sexier and damn more fun. now here is the question are all toons like this are any so toons other than random support toons optimal? Is there an SO toon that can hang with a pimped out incarnate toon? ANY just one? I would love for some information even if anecdotal. |
Of course IO's and Incarnate powers are going to make you more powerful. That is their intended effect. But by no means does being on SO's automagically make you gimped.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
This is a question? I mean, really, is it?
This is comparing apples and atomic bombs. Who needs this comparison?
IOs let you break the game in various ways by giving you absurd advantages when you can stack enough of them, particularly when it comes to global recharge (allowing for shenanigans like Perma-Phantom Army or Perma-Doms) or soft capped defenses.
Incarnates give you end game nukes, perma-buffs, universal stat boosts and procs, and some of the best pets in the game.
Mind you, the game was playable and still is -without- it, but it's a completely different ballpark adding them in.
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/this. Seem to recall, for instance, Lusca being soloed on SOs. Did it take a while? Sure. But not just because of the SOs, the game itself was different at the time. |
Originally Posted by Kyriani
Considering people were killing +0 to +2 at x1 or more WITH bosses on SO's long before IO's or incarnate powers I'll take your "test" results with a grain of salt.
Of course IO's and Incarnate powers are going to make you more powerful. That is their intended effect. But by no means does being on SO's automagically make you gimped. |
Also, I seem to recall many complaints by people with IO'd builds about Ramiel's arc ... which I've walked through on SOs/common IOs.
*shrug*
If anything, I feel bad for people going the other way, who say they literally *cannot play* without their IO'd out builds.
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The map that i am running in AE is the cave map with fire trolls. Its the normal cave map with the mobs walking around and the trolls are fire dmg
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
My NRG/NRG Brute on my current account (during the period when I was Premium) and my SS/WP Brute on an alternate totally-free account both ran content at +1 easily on SOs. What are you doing that you can barely handle -1?
Subscribed vs. Free doesn't matter for Incarnate content, since that's VIP-only and is supposed to be harder than regular missions. |
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I guess that is what im figuring out. Its a different game with sos vs all the other goodies in the game thats all was saying. |
Originally Posted by Agent White
This is a question? I mean, really, is it?
This is comparing apples and atomic bombs. Who needs this comparison? IOs let you break the game in various ways by giving you absurd advantages when you can stack enough of them, particularly when it comes to global recharge (allowing for shenanigans like Perma-Phantom Army or Perma-Doms) or soft capped defenses. Incarnates give you end game nukes, perma-buffs, universal stat boosts and procs, and some of the best pets in the game. Mind you, the game was playable and still is -without- it, but it's a completely different ballpark adding them in. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
My NRG/NRG Brute on my current account (during the period when I was Premium) and my SS/WP Brute on an alternate totally-free account both ran content at +1 easily on SOs. What are you doing that you can barely handle -1?
Subscribed vs. Free doesn't matter for Incarnate content, since that's VIP-only and is supposed to be harder than regular missions. |
thanks that is my question what builds can handle high level bosses etc... and still are f2p. I know that incarnates and the ios make them way better. Im looking for farm toons and builds that can play with just sos this seems to be your response and i appreciate it.
If there are any other types of toons or builds i would appreciate having some input int owhat there are...
sorry if iw as not clear earlier.
i am looking for so builds that can farm or play at a high level. (clearly not as well as an incarnated purpled toon) just at a very high level.
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Well... if you're looking for an SO build that is going to keep pace with an IO'd incarnate you're just not going to find that, not even close to that in fact. Don't get me wrong there's plenty of "impressive on SO's" builds out there but they are very specialized and even optimally slotted with hami's where applicable, the Overwhelming Force set and an AT set (all of which premiums can use though the AT set would have to be gifted or bought from another player) you're just not going to be able to keep pace with an IO'd incarnate... the gap is just too great. What I am trying to say is there is no non IO/non incarnate build that isn't going to feel "weak" compared to your IO'd incarnate characters.|
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
i am looking for so builds that can farm or play at a high level. (clearly not as well as an incarnated purpled toon) just at a very high level.
|
A premium who springs for Time Manip can make a pretty impressive Time/Sonic/Power defender though... especially if you use hamis/overwhelming/ATOs. With the right build it's perma softcapped to everything, has a wide array of buffs and debuffs, heals and controls. It won't be impressive next to an IO'd incarnate but for what it's got it would be impressive next to most lvl 50's equally geared.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
i am looking for so builds that can farm or play at a high level. (clearly not as well as an incarnated purpled toon) just at a very high level.
I remember back in the olds of just after beta all way up to 2004 when I left, all there was was SO builds, and I had many friends leveled cap out soloing endgame content and bosses and pl plp. So yes there is toons of SO builds out there that can handle endgame solo and teaming, I suggest you do some serious research of old school CoH SO builds and you will,find many builds that are nasty,brutal,very fun ect....
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... of course, the issue with this (especially mentioning 2004) is that the game is *vastly* different now, with aggro caps, target caps, enhancement diversification, the GDN, inherent fitness, removal of some prerequisites, power adjustments... |
Originally Posted by Emjack
I remember back in the olds of just after beta all way up to 2004 when I left, all there was was SO builds, and I had many friends leveled cap out soloing endgame content and bosses and pl plp. So yes there is toons of SO builds out there that can handle endgame solo and teaming, I suggest you do some serious research of old school CoH SO builds and you will,find many builds that are nasty,brutal,very fun ect....
|
I do, however, think people should play and learn how to build solid characters on SOs without leaning on IOs.
oh i agree 100% this game has changed dramatically from 2004 to 2012 its got alot better,stronger and more challengeing which is great dont get me wrong, im all for , for better things if it brings more players back to the game, for myself i am one of those plp i have to relearn this game over and im going the SO route ect.. to learn how to play my builds , how to slot them up to SO's as i level up to level 50 ect... then work my way up later down road once im confortable on everything i need to know then worry and figure out the IO's ect.. if i ever want to leave the SO bulds rofl, I love Old school 
lol
I keep *planning* on doing a "Playing and planning on SOs" guide... keep not doing it though.
Be awesome if you or someone who makes great guides and tutorials as you do make one im sure there alot of plp out there commng back to the game and going OH PANCAKE what is all this new stuff, what happen to the SO builds ROFL for me i see it as a HUGE relearning this game if been gone for many years, building up to SO's be awesome way to relearn before you start getting jittery and nervous about. ok now we try these IO's (OH BOY) ROFL
Quote:
In what world is a bicycle faster than an F1?
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
Its ok its playable but the diference is like a bicycle to a Mclaren F1. They can both get you to a point you want to be at but one is faster sexier and damn more fun.
|
@Roderick
I tried an SO farmer on my 2nd ('free') account but it was not do-able without forming teams. I pay the monthly io licence but no incarnate so it's not the best farmer you can get but good enough for me.
Edit: See sig.
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Not trying to be offensive Klaw but you weren't farming right then. Long before IO's were aded to the game|
Originally Posted by _Klaw_
I tried an SO farmer on my 2nd ('free') account but it was not do-able without forming teams. I pay the monthly io licence but no incarnate so it's not the best farmer you can get but good enough for me.
|
Anyone with a fire controller was assumed to be a farmer
Demon farms were popular
Tanks doing dumpster diving
Before we could adjust mission difficulty farmers would recruit door sitters to spawn larger mobs for them to farm by themselves
People recruiting for TF's and kicking everyone from the team after it started so they could do it solo.
Quote:
Right off, you're talking about a SOLO situation. Well DUH the incarnate and purpled toon is going to be way the hell more powerful and the difference is immediately apparent.|
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
Ios and incarnate stuff vs a SO toon
Dont even bother. The io'd(purpled) incarnate toon is running +4/8 with bosses easily. The non incarnate non iod toon (same build) can barely handle +0 or -1 no bosses. I mean barely i am praying for the right insp to drop in missons. its a fire/elec/pyre brute I use to farm purples and pl. |
But that's a bogus comparison. A better question is: Can a toon with SO's survive on and contribute to the average team. The answer is yes. If someone is level 50 and using SO's and teamed with a bunch of incarnates, guess what - the incarnate guys powers improve the survivability of EVERYONE.
For example: my emp has amazing heal boosts and recharge. Furthermore, his AoE heal boosts allies endurance (due to the PvP Panacea proc). This helps EVERYONE. His huge recharge lets him keep Fortitude on more teammates. His Incarnate Destiny power is an AOE BUFF.
No one is denying that toons with IO's and/or incarnate powers are more powerful. The question was: Are characters with only SO's *VIABLE*? The answer is yes.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Hi me again...
I have a paid account with incarnate etc... and a f2p old account that has only the use of ios
there has been a lot of chatter/talk/debate over the years about are ios important is incarnate important or are these necessesary.
Well i did a test I dont have numbers and if someone here can let me know of a way to get them ill post them. I can only tell you what is see is real.
Ios and incarnate stuff vs a SO toon
Dont even bother. The io'd(purpled) incarnate toon is running +4/8 with bosses easily. The non incarnate non iod toon (same build) can barely handle +0 or -1 no bosses. I mean barely i am praying for the right insp to drop in missons.
its a fire/elec/pyre brute I use to farm purples and pl. I thought i would make one on the freebie and pl myself a little. Its ok its playable but the diference is like a bicycle to a Mclaren F1. They can both get you to a point you want to be at but one is faster sexier and damn more fun.
now here is the question are all toons like this are any so toons other than random support toons optimal? Is there an SO toon that can hang with a pimped out incarnate toon?
ANY just one?
I would love for some information even if anecdotal.