Let's talk about a Stone Armor Revamp

With enough Inf, runspeed can be made tolerable (I do about 14 mph on Rooted + Granite), the recharge penalty can be overcome (I'm well over base recharge after bonuses and Hasten) but I hates that damage penalty. Even with Fire Melee and Fury, it's lackluster.

Of all the drawbacks, that's my personal nemesis. If there is a troller or dom shutting down attacks, I'll just drop Granite and go to town - the difference in dps is phenomenal.

Give me some damage back!

If you take the -movement out of Rooted, that's the only change I can really condone. You don't need Granite on Stone. Hell, I know a couple of people who made tanks who don't have Granite and don't need it. Defense out the wazoo, and resistance to deal with any damage that sneaks pass, and regen to wipe that damage away. The one I usually play with has walked away from the computer and we've watched aggro capped mobs just whiff. The exclusive armor doesn't seem to be a problem, but that could be based more on IOs, so I'll conceed that point.

I haven't slept in 24 hours so if this post is rambly and don't make sense, well, pbbbbttttt.

For myself (I have a Stone tanker at 41) the set is simply old and needs to be redone. It was built in the days when power trade-offs were more severe and the whole game was built around the team filling in holes that each other had. So a Kin could take care of Granite and so on.

No other set has a power that destroys hours of costume creation.

No other set encourages the player to do a respec based around a single power.

No other set has a power that makes only one travel power viable.

I'm not a numbers guy so I don't know exactly what level of Defense and Resist needs to be put in to fix things. You can't simply ask Granite to work on top of all the other toggles...the set would be worse than Dark Armor with monster End issues. The first thing that I would do is remove most of the -Run and -Jump from the set particularly with Rooted off.

Stone Armor is a great themed set that needs to be brought into the new century.

For myself (I have a Stone tanker at 41) the set is simply old and needs to be redone. It was built in the days when power trade-offs were more severe and the whole game was built around the team filling in holes that each other had. So a Kin could take care of Granite and so on.

No other set has a power that destroys hours of costume creation.

No other set encourages the player to do a respec based around a single power.

No other set has a power that makes only one travel power viable.

I'm not a numbers guy so I don't know exactly what level of Defense and Resist needs to be put in to fix things. You can't simply ask Granite to work on top of all the other toggles...the set would be worse than Dark Armor with monster End issues. The first thing that I would do is remove most of the -Run and -Jump from the set particularly with Rooted off.

Stone Armor is a great themed set that needs to be brought into the new century.

(By the way, I didn't read the last few pages, so sorry if I missed anything important)

My first thought at seeing this topic was "Let's not, and say we didn't.", but I see I'm far too late for that...

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard First, I want to say that this is NOT a proposal to nerf Stone Armor as the king of defensive sets in the game for pure solid survivability, this is a proposal of balanced changes to a powerset that has some long-standing issues and design flaws. Second, my thoughts come from the point of view of someone that actually LIKE the set as a concept, but feels the execution is awful.

To me, it sounds like you're asking for a nerf to post-32 gameplay for the people who like Stone Armor as it is, with no real compensation or necessity for said change.

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard Now, as everybody knows, Stone Armor is a toggle-heavy set. It's one distinct difference from other defensive sets is that Granite Armor is itself a toggle. It's also the only toggle-heavy set where the tier-9 power renders all but one other armor completely redundant by itself AND precludes access to said armor by forcibly detoggling all other armor powers when turned on. In the base game, without IO's and Sets, this is not a huge issue.

... What? What Stone Armor are you playing? Not counting pools, I'm running 3 toggles if I need Rooted. That means for 99% of gameplay, I'm running two toggles. The only set I can think of that needs less is Regen. I understand that yes, pre-32, it could be toggle-heavy... If you needlessly run all 5 toggles (before pools) at once. But you don't need to, so I don't really see this as being an issue. Dark Armor is a toggle-heavy set. Stone Armor is not. (In my opinion, of course)

(Minerals is highly situational, and to me, Brimstone is as well. Or maybe I just don't know how many mobs deal Fire/Cold damage... *shrug*)

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard Stone Armor is also a set that hinders MOBILITY in the extreme...to the point of tedium and frustration since teleport is the only viable travel power in Rooted/Granite/Both since both powers severely debuff move speeds, and essentially disable jumping entirely, as well as DETOGGLING if any travel power or defensive power that is part of a travel pool is activated.

This one, I will agree with. But, I'm of the opinion that it's a somewhat necessary part of the set, both for balance and concept reasons. You have to sacrifice *something* to gain the ability to (with IO's) be Resistance-capped to all but Psi, and softcapped Defense to all but Psi, and hardcapped MaxHP all at the same time, permanently, with no crash. (Except the MaxHP, unless you have perma-EE). And, I can't really see somebody covered in STONE running around full speed... Thus, speed reduction.

I look at it at being similar to Regen (as a set). Some people may not like a set limiting their mobility. Some may not like a very click-heavy set that is also typically less survivable than any other set. Personally, I like both (to a degree), but I understand that either set may not be for you. (Using "you" in the generic, non-person-specific form. I'm not referring to the OP in specific.)

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard As most people reading this are likely well aware, most players that bother playing Stone Armor to level 32/38 end up immediately respeccing and removing every other armor power from their build that they can. This is because granite provides more and better survivability fresh out of the box than all of the other powers in the set combined do, with the one exception being that it provides for a psionic hole that Minerals used to cover, and a Confuse hole that most players don't realize they even have until they get hit with a Psionic-based confuse effect. This combined with the fact that granite cannot currently be used in conjunction with the other toggle armors in the set makes even having the other armors in your build counter-productive.

You say counter-productive, I say "design intent". Stone Armor is unique (as you already mentioned previously) in that it's T9 is a toggle that eliminates the need for all of your other powers (except potentially Mud Pots and Rooted). It is the only armor set that can survive virtually any typical encounter running only 2 toggles (Granite and Mud Pots). Which means it requires significantly less endurance management than any other set (except Willpower and Regen).

To take this point to an extreme/IO build example... I have no doubt that my Stone tank could tank Scirocco, Cap'n Mako, Black Scorpion, the Flier, and a tower-buffed Recluse (notice the exclusion of Ghost Widow, due to her Hold) with no team assistance, indefinitely.

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard My proposal for a Stone Armor revamp so that it retains current top-tier functionality in survivability as well as retaining certain thematic weaknesses is this: Allow granite to stack with the other four armors by making it so that the other armors are NEEDED for Granite to have its current level of effect. I would accomplish this by first turning Brimstone Armor into a +defense power and bringing Rock and Crystal Armors up to par with Brimstone and Minerals in their base +defense. This would turn Granite into a +resist power that serves to BUFF the defense powers by offering extra protection beyond what they do without entirely eclipsing them by itself in the form of resistance as something beyond their raw defense. Granite would retain the lack of anything for Psi, so psi attacks that slip past Minerals would still hit for full damage.

So... Your solution to fix a supposedly toggle-heavy set is.. To require you to run an extra 4 toggles more than you already typically run? (Speaking of post-32, again. To me, pre-32 is irrelevant to this discussion, as at that point, Stone Armor is effectively identical to nearly all of the other armor sets)

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard Furthermore, to compensate for the nerf to Granite Armor as a standalone power, allow it and Rooted to function with Super Speed so that there is at least ONE viable alternative to teleportation as a travel power.

I don't see a nerf being required for the sake of a QoL improvement being implemented. Remove the exclusivity of Granite/Travel powers, but keep the -Speed, (though possibly reducing it) to prevent people from running around at full speed in Granite+Rooted. As I mentioned above, Super Speed or not, you aren't going to be running around at 50 MPH when you're covered in a bunch of rocks.

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard Beyond THAT, make Rooted function like Grounded and remove the -jump from it. Keep the -Jump in Granite. Rooted now has a downside, it only functions when you are on the ground, but it allows you to JUMP with some risk attached in that while jumping you have no Mez protection. This allows for a second viable travel power outside of Granite Armor; Super Jump. The only travel power that Stone users would be effectively locked out of is Flight, and that's okay. Being locked out of one without detoggling your protection is better than being locked out of all BUT one.

I would say reduce, not remove the -Jump from BOTH powers. As has been said before... I hate being defeated by a curb. I'm not asking for full mobility, just 1 foot of jump capability so I don't have to teleport over the curb to get to Wentworths, or whatever my destination may be.

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard People who want to take only one main power from a set should be penalized for it, not rewarded. With this restructuring of the abilities in Stone Armor, you would reward the people that do not respec out of everything BUT Granite, without coming down overly hard on the people that do such, since granite would retain the powerful resists and rooted would still have regeneration. Furthermore it would open up more OPTIONS for players that want to try Stone Armor but dislike how the set performs before granite, and dislike the constraints of granite as well.

I'm all for more options, but not at the expense of effectively gutting the uniqueness of the set for the sake of "fixing" issues that don't exist with the set.

This is a terrible comparison, I know, but... I can't think of a better one right now, I'm concentrating on finishing this post so I can eat my pizza.

Saying Granite needs to be nerfed so people don't feel obligated to take a power they don't like is like saying Dark Melee should get a damage buff and have Soul Drain nerfed so people don't feel obligated to take it.

Granite Armor (and Soul Drain) are critical parts of their respective sets. Nerfing them just so you don't feel obligated to take them isn't "fixing" anything. It's creating problems for all the people who like the uniqueness just how it is now.

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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard After all that, let's take a look at the cosmetic side of things, shall we? FIX GRANITE ARMOR! Make it able to be customized. At the very LEAST allow it to work with PATH auras. Return it to the ancient Golgothan appearance if you must, as long as we can customize it and make our characters look SOMEWHAT unique. City of Heroes is the game KNOWN for customization. Granite Armor is the ONLY power in the game that imposes a restriction on this freedom to create outside of the Epic/Ancilliary pools and EAT's. It needs to change. It has needed to change since issue 16.

I... Really can't argue with any of this. Customization would be great. lol


I'm probably going to want to edit this later, but for now... I want to eat my pizza before it gets cold, so I'll stop with this.

Ok..Scir.

You say you didn’t read the rest of the thread (hey, I am guilty of that too) and then go ahead and say, with your FIRST comment on the idea..that you don’t agree. Without reading..ALL the other points of view, which had a very heavy bias today CHANGING the set, even if it was to a small degree. And how can you be ‘too late for that’? As if your OWN opinion would somehow make all the people who would like a change shake their head and thinking..by Jove! He is right! WHAT are we thinking,..?

Next point..how can you say she is asking for a post 32 nerf when the ideas were to make the other toggles BETTER...which improves post 32 play? Also..how many people LIKE stone? Go on..tell me. It is easily the least used set (in my experience) ESPECIALLY considering how nigh unkillable it is. And yeah..forget the compensation of making the set actually FUN to play. Who plays for fun?

Three toggles. And it is EASILY capable of being run with one..Granite. Again..if you actually read some of the other posts, instead of getting on your high horse about ‘nerfing’ you would have seen this was one of my problems. Any melee set capable of working with one toggle is broken. Back to post 32 game play...hmmm..so that means, you only run Rooted and Mudpots PRE 32 huh? Cause you sure wont have Granite for your third toggle. Have fun tanking with just a bit of regen.

Onto balance and concept. Concept, yes, I will give you..to a point. To bring up the Thing, he is about as stony a hero as we can get. Is he slow? Can he step over a curb? Can he jump? Is he somehow ‘weaker’ (-dam) than he would normally be? A big no to all those. By-by concept. And balance..huh! Even worse! All the other tier 9s (older ones) come with a crash. And a limited duration. Granite..uhuh..Oh guess it isn’t balanced compared to them hmm? How about the new tier 9s? Oh wait, fixed rech, much weaker stats. Granite is NOT balanced to them.

As others have said (again, which you WOULD have seen if you read more) the entire set is a relic, that does not fit in with many, or any, other sets. So what you are really moaning about with your ‘don’t nerf it, its balanced’ cry is that the set IS balanced..compared to ITSELF. Cause it sure isn’t compared to other sets, therefore any change would not be the same as the current, hence..imbalance! Great argument. Obviously balance changes can only make things better.


Stone..similar to regen? Hmmm maybe in the same way your reasoning is similar to SENSE, until you actually think at all about it. One whole regen power in stone..yeah, totally makes it similar.

Design Intent? Again READ the damn thread. It is a relic. If the intent was to make a set that is unkillable that NO ONE (ok, not many) people want to play, or even enjoy, then booyah, mission complete. Unless you know..we look at all the new coming sets, which the dev team is clearly TRYING to make fun. Oh darn it..I guess we proved the set is a relic again!

Wow, you can tank 5 AVs? On a STONE tank? Oh yeah, it MUST be a totally balanced and perfect set. Gotta be.

Extra 4 toggles? Did you read the bit about how we were saying the toggles (normal) ones could be improved to work WITH granite? SO you would not be unable to attack due to the end cost? No, of course you didn’t. Much better just to make assumptions.
I see you are back to your pre 32 talk. Lemme know how good tanking is getting all the aggro with only Rooted as mitigation.

A nerf now? Just a bit ago, you said it was all a balance issue. Now it is a nerf? No..just balance. Talking of speed..I doubt you would be very fast with layers of ice covering your body either..ice tanks can use SS. I doubt you would be stealth when on fire..but fire armour can pick stealth no worries. You are going back to concept reasons again..stupid ones.

Gutting the uniqueness?’ Wow, I hope you are in advertsing. You could sell ice to Eskimos with that! Oh, you know..sell a set that is rendered unfun but ‘balance’ issues inherent in the powers, in spite of being awesome.

Still not sure how ONE power, soul drain, is similar to a set that’s so far out of whack with anything else..Granite is ONLY a critical part of the set cause the rest is crappy and offers nothing great..then Granite comes in and renders all that useless ANYWAY. Soul drain does not suddenly make the rest of DM crap..it works WITH it all to be good. Or..Let’s go with your comparison...go play DM and ONLY use soul drain, in the same way Stone only uses granite. Let me know how much fun you have waiting 40 seconds between attacking?

In short..try READING the other posts.

Wow, harsh reply there, D.

I apologize if my delivery offends anyone, it's not intended.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Ok..Scir. You say you didn’t read the rest of the thread (hey, I am guilty of that too) and then go ahead and say, with your FIRST comment on the idea..that you don’t agree. Without reading..ALL the other points of view, which had a very heavy bias today CHANGING the set, even if it was to a small degree. And how can you be ‘too late for that’? As if your OWN opinion would somehow make all the people who would like a change shake their head and thinking..by Jove! He is right! WHAT are we thinking,..?

I don't expect to change anyone's opinion about anything. I personally don't care. This is a discussion forum, I gave my opinion on the initial point of the discussion. That being a suggestion to revamp Stone. End of story. I could not care less if you think I'm "right", because there is no "right" in a discussion about something that is 90% opinion. My comment on "too late for that" was entirely regarding my "let's not" comment, so you can stop changing the meaning of what I said, thanks.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Next point..how can you say she is asking for a post 32 nerf when the ideas were to make the other toggles BETTER...which improves post 32 play? Also..how many people LIKE stone? Go on..tell me. It is easily the least used set (in my experience) ESPECIALLY considering how nigh unkillable it is. And yeah..forget the compensation of making the set actually FUN to play. Who plays for fun?

Significantly reducing the effectiveness of Granite (which would be a requirement if the other 4 toggles in the set were designed to work with Granite) implies a "nerf" to the post-32 gameplay, regardless of how you want to look at it or sugarcoat it. Being required to run 5 defensive toggles instead of 1 (post-32) to achieve the same level of effectiveness amounts to a "nerf", in my opinion. As for how many people like Stone? I see quite a few Stone tanks, and therefore assume that they like it. Maybe they don't, and I'm the only person that actually enjoys playing it. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. I enjoy the set, and have fun playing it. That's the line where I stop caring.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Three toggles. And it is EASILY capable of being run with one..Granite. Again..if you actually read some of the other posts, instead of getting on your high horse about ‘nerfing’ you would have seen this was one of my problems. Any melee set capable of working with one toggle is broken.

To be fair, I read most of the first two pages. And saw several people saying the only thing the set really needs is better mobility. I gave my opinion on the subject in relation to the OP. Nothing more, nothing less. The other posts could be discussing unicorns and rainbows. I'm not replying to them. If I was, I would have quoted them and replied as such.

That said.. I'm not on my "high horse about 'nerfing'". As I said more than once already, the OP started a discussion about a subject, I gave my opinion in relation to the OP. End of story.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Back to post 32 game play...hmmm..so that means, you only run Rooted and Mudpots PRE 32 huh? Cause you sure wont have Granite for your third toggle. Have fun tanking with just a bit of regen.

No, it means that as far as I am concerned after reading (and re-reading) the OP, pre-32 gameplay does not figure into the equation. Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding the OP (which is certainly a possibility), the post basically said "Rooted is terrible, because it makes you practically immobile" and "Granite is OP, so it should work with the other toggles".

I'm sorry if my paraphrase offends anyone, I'm just trying to sum up an entire post into two sentences, and those were the "main points" I got out of the post. The first point (Rooted), I agree with, to an extent. The second point, I do not. Since Granite doesn't come until 32 (or whatever level it is for Brutes), this makes pre-32 gameplay largely irrelevant for the purposes of the discussion, as described by the OP.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Onto balance and concept. Concept, yes, I will give you..to a point. To bring up the Thing, he is about as stony a hero as we can get. Is he slow? Can he step over a curb? Can he jump? Is he somehow ‘weaker’ (-dam) than he would normally be? A big no to all those. By-by concept. And balance..huh! Even worse! All the other tier 9s (older ones) come with a crash. And a limited duration. Granite..uhuh..Oh guess it isn’t balanced compared to them hmm? How about the new tier 9s? Oh wait, fixed rech, much weaker stats. Granite is NOT balanced to them.

Personally, I wasn't comparing Stone Armor to The Thing. My mistake, on that one. I was going by the semi-logical explanation that if your body is covered in rocks, you'll probably be moving slower. You win that point.

As for balance compared to other sets... Is the set overpowered? Probably, but you pay for it in self debuffs and almost zero mobility. Show me another set that debuffs yourself (at all), and offers survivability anywhere remotely close to Stone Armor, and I will happily admit that Stone Armor needs to change for balance reasons. Go ahead, I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by MisterD As others have said (again, which you WOULD have seen if you read more) the entire set is a relic, that does not fit in with many, or any, other sets. So what you are really moaning about with your ‘don’t nerf it, its balanced’ cry is that the set IS balanced..compared to ITSELF. Cause it sure isn’t compared to other sets, therefore any change would not be the same as the current, hence..imbalance! Great argument. Obviously balance changes can only make things better.

The set is a relic, because it's old. And that's not going to change any time soon. However, just because it's old, doesn't mean it needs to change. I'm not moaning about balance. If I was, I would be moaning about Willpower and Regen.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Stone..similar to regen? Hmmm maybe in the same way your reasoning is similar to SENSE, until you actually think at all about it. One whole regen power in stone..yeah, totally makes it similar.

Speaking of reading, try reading my post. The only comparisons I made regarding Stone/Regen was the number of toggles the two sets run (post-32), and the fact that not everyone likes the same playstyle in a set (like Regen). Never once did I compare the attributes of the two sets. Try again.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Design Intent? Again READ the damn thread. It is a relic. If the intent was to make a set that is unkillable that NO ONE (ok, not many) people want to play, or even enjoy, then booyah, mission complete. Unless you know..we look at all the new coming sets, which the dev team is clearly TRYING to make fun. Oh darn it..I guess we proved the set is a relic again!

It's an online game. You can't make everyone happy. I don't like Willpower (arguably one of the most popular armor sets in existance), Super Reflexes, or Fire Armor (if you count the farmers, probably the second most popular armor set in existance). That doesn't mean they need to change.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Wow, you can tank 5 AVs? On a STONE tank? Oh yeah, it MUST be a totally balanced and perfect set. Gotta be.

Show me a set capable of doing so (if they would all spawn at the same time...) without debuffing your own damage, recharge, and mobility into nothingness.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Extra 4 toggles? Did you read the bit about how we were saying the toggles (normal) ones could be improved to work WITH granite? SO you would not be unable to attack due to the end cost? No, of course you didn’t. Much better just to make assumptions.

Endurance cost was not covered in the OP, therefore I did not respond to it. I said as much in my response.

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Originally Posted by MisterD I see you are back to your pre 32 talk. Lemme know how good tanking is getting all the aggro with only Rooted as mitigation.

I haven't gone to pre-32 talk in a significant manner, and don't intend to. Come back when you read the post you're replying to.

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Originally Posted by MisterD A nerf now? Just a bit ago, you said it was all a balance issue. Now it is a nerf? No..just balance. Talking of speed..I doubt you would be very fast with layers of ice covering your body either..ice tanks can use SS. I doubt you would be stealth when on fire..but fire armour can pick stealth no worries. You are going back to concept reasons again..stupid ones.

Again, re-read my post. I suggested allowing the use of powers such as SS, at reduced effectiveness. Last time I checked, rocks are really heavy, so you wouldn't be able to run as fast. Does Stealth on Fire Armor make sense? No, not really, but we aren't talking about Stealth on Fire Armor, we're talking about Stone Armor. To that end, I think that idea in particular was a dev-provided reason why Stalkers won't be getting Fire any time soon.

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Originally Posted by MisterD Gutting the uniqueness?’ Wow, I hope you are in advertsing. You could sell ice to Eskimos with that! Oh, you know..sell a set that is rendered unfun but ‘balance’ issues inherent in the powers, in spite of being awesome.

I think just about everyone will agree that Stone Armor is unique in that it relies largely on Granite once it is available. Thus, forcing it to rely on the other toggles in the set in addition to Granite would gut the uniqueness of the set. As far as being "unfun", I already covered that above. One set can't be fun for everyone. I could look up similar terms, if you would rather I not use the term "gut".

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Originally Posted by MisterD Still not sure how ONE power, soul drain, is similar to a set that’s so far out of whack with anything else..Granite is ONLY a critical part of the set cause the rest is crappy and offers nothing great..then Granite comes in and renders all that useless ANYWAY. Soul drain does not suddenly make the rest of DM crap..it works WITH it all to be good. Or..Let’s go with your comparison...go play DM and ONLY use soul drain, in the same way Stone only uses granite. Let me know how much fun you have waiting 40 seconds between attacking?

First off, after reading my own post again, I'm fairly certain I said it was a terrible comparison, but I couldn't think of a better one at the time. So, in an attempt to come up with a better comparison, I'll go with...

Dark Armor. Dark Regeneration is a critical part of the set. I would go as far as to say the set would suck without it. In effect, what the OP said is "Granite should be less effective so that people don't feel obligated to take it". If we can't have powers that are so powerful that people feel obligated to take them, Dark Regeneration would be somewhere right around the top of that list of powers, along with Rise to the Challenge and Moment of Glory... And Fulcrum Shift (for that matter, pretty much the entire Kinetics set)... And Lightning Rod... Yes, I understand that the OP was making that comment with regards to Granite being exclusive from the other powers. Yes, Granite is unique in that way. However... I don't necessarily see that as being a bad thing.

As far as the rest of the set being crappy... Outside of Granite, Stone Armor offers fairly comparable performance (numbers-wise) to Ice Armor and Willpower. I don't see how this is as terrible as everyone makes it out to be.

Ok, here's my take on Stone Armor, admittedly coming from someone who doesn't actually like playing melee characters so it's worth exactly what you paid for it .

The core problem is Granite (yeah, I know Captain Obvious but bear with me here). Granite is a Tier 9 Armor power and like a lot of the Tier 9 armor powers it aims to make you nearly invincible but at a strong cost. In most similar powers the cost is limited up-time and a crash at the end. Granite however has permanent up-time but is balanced by decreasing your offense (and mobility but that's less of a concern). Now fundamentally this isn't actually a bad idea, it's an interesting idea compared to other armor sets and helps cement Stone as an extremely tough set.

However the problem is that the actual implementation fails because it renders the rest of the set virtually obsolete. While Granite is active most of the rest of the set can't be used and outside of Granite Stone Armor isn't a particularly great set. It can't seem to decide if it's a resistance set or a defense set which leaves it with rather erratic coverage against different attacks due to the interactions of defense and resistance. This is then compounded by the fact that to achieve full coverage it has to run a total of six toggles (more than any armor set apart from Dark Armor) in a set with no recovery bonuses. Given the choice between six toggles and three most players sensibly opt to just run Granite and only take the other powers as set mules or for use while exemplared.

So how to fix this? I would say that a fix needs to try to do two things. First balance out the performance of the pre-Granite set so that it provides a more balanced set of defenses. Secondly make Granite into a situational power rather than something you always run by default. In other words a Stone Tanker/Brute should feel comfortable using their non-Granite toggles and only turn on Granite if they feel the need to become tougher.

To that end I'd change the set as follows (numbers given are for Tankers):

1. Normalize Rock Armor, Brimstone Armor and Crystal Armor so that they all provide both typed defense and resistances to S/L, F/C or E/NE as appropriate. I'm not sure on values but I think something like 15% defense and 10% resistance would be about right.
2. Remove the Run Speed and Jump Height penalties on Rooted and remove the restriction on having Combat Jumping, Super Speed or Sprint toggled on at the same time. This allows Stone Tankers to at least jump a little bit to get over curbs and deal with in-mission terrain issues and gives them the ability run around in the mission while maintaining the thematic need to remain in reasonable contact with the ground (you can jump a bit and you can run fast but you can't Super Jump or Fly while using Rooted).
3. Add a recovery buff somewhere. Possibly a scaling buff in Mud Pots or alternatively a fixed buff in Rooted and Granite (see below for more on Granite).
4. Now comes the biggy, Granite. Instead of the old effects it works as follows.
   • Granite has no endurance cost and (possibly) applies a recovery buff.
   • Having Granite toggled on provides movement speed debuffs pretty much identical to the old ones and also prevents toggling on Super Speed, Super Jump, Fly and Hover (you can keep Sprint and Combat Jumping though).
   • While Granite is active Rock Armor, Brimstone Armor and Crystal Armor all have their base effects increased to 20% Defense and 50% resistance but each applies a 20% recharge debuff and 10% damage debuff.
   • While Granite is active Minerals has a moderate unenhanceable Psionic resistnace buff added to it (I'm thinking about 40%) but also applies a 20% recharge debuff and 10% damage debuff.
   • Taking Granite grants a new Inherent power called Path of the Earth (or something less lame, I suck at names). This is basically Teleport but the target area has to be on the ground and the animation has you drop straight into the ground and then pop up at the target area with suitable burrowing graphics. Technically it should only be usable while Granite is active but given the lack of vertical movement I'd say let it work outside Granite.

I'll paraphrase what I said earlier in the thread.

1. Remove the movement penalties from Rooted by making it a clone of Grounded.
2. Make a new Earthen Armor set from scratch, as any major changes to the Stone Armor set will upset most Stone Armor users who have found away to work with the current penalties. I don't know if the hue and cry will be as loud as the originally announced changes to the Epic pools, but I'm sure it will be as vehement.