Power Creep video


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Just interesting

We all know what this is already, but it's still a good topic that can be discussed in CoH. This term has been brought up regarding incarnate abilities, and I'm sure Synapse and Hawk are well aware of this careful balance requirement.


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Posted

Yes, that was an interesting video. Thanks for sharing.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

actually this is probably the MMO with the least amount of power creep I've ever played. Unless you're running lvl 50 content, all players function at a balanced level. Even at lvl 50 content it's mainly the level shifts that cause the power creep.


 

Posted

The part early on about reward creep made me think of the MA system vs. the newer SSAs and trials. Remember how farming the AE used to be THE THING because tickets could get you so much stuff (recipes and salvage)? Now it's all about the merits, tickets are at best a niche reward to chase after. As the devs haven't updated of the rewards for the MA*, now hardly anyone plays with it, farming or otherwise.

*I know that farming and exploiting are reasons they haven't. Still, they could do something with it such as updating rewards for vetted dev choice arcs or whatever, but that's not happened either.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski View Post
actually this is probably the MMO with the least amount of power creep I've ever played. Unless you're running lvl 50 content, all players function at a balanced level. Even at lvl 50 content it's mainly the level shifts that cause the power creep.
Umm..what? So a Tw/Fire brute say..is totally balanced to..an EM/regen brute..with the ONLY factor in balance, and powers creeping up..is level shifts??

I will admit I don't think there is as much PC as some people make out..but it IS there. Look at the new melee sets for good examples.

Not saying that everyone SHOULD be totally balanced..its a pretty non realistic goal in an MMO.


 

Posted

I expect this thread to have a lot of DOOM! involved...

But yes, they game has experienced major powercreep over the years. While every MMO is plagued by it to some extent. CoH has seen short bursts of powercreep. From IOs to inheritent Fitness to Incarnate stuff.. including levelshifts to flat boosts to certain set. This game has definitely seen it's fair share of creep.

This game is slowly dying and anyone who disagrees is in denial and the best way to keep it around for even just alittle while longer is to some how halt powercreep. We haven't even gotten to the Omega incarnate and people are already 50+3, able to solo most content with little issue... heck some can even do it at 50, showing such a huge flux in power for certain sets. I understand our development team is only here to milk as much money as they can from us until CoH2 comes out or until upkeep is larger than income but I'd someday like to see old content revisited instead of selling us new crap that just says 'grow moar powerful for only XXX points or moneyz!!!'


Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload View Post
This game is slowly dying
What evidence do you have to support this statement "exactly"?


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Note his signature, then leave it at that.


 

Posted

Yeah, I disagree with pretty much everything he said, to say nothing of the bits that are just flat-out factually wrong. Guess that means I'm 'in denial'. I just love when someone prefaces their weak argument by saying that anyone who disagrees is wrong by fiat. Saves you from actually having to construct a sound argument yourself, I suppose.

As for the OP topic, I've been a regular follower of Extra Credits for some time now and the video in question was a good treatment of the issue in my opinion. I'd agree that our game has less power creep than most, in no small part due to the conscious decision our Devs have made to avoid the level cap increase carrot-and-stick model that other MMOs such as WoW have been using. The continued focus on revamping old areas/systems and adding content to the low and mid-game as well as the endgame also helps combat this as opposed to a 'game begins at levelcap' perspective you see in some other games.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaris View Post
I'd agree that our game has less power creep than most, in no small part due to the conscious decision our Devs have made to avoid the level cap increase carrot-and-stick model that other MMOs such as WoW have been using.
Incarnates aren't power creep? 54+5 final bosses? I consider the new ATO enhancements to be a case of power creep too, and depending on how far you look back the purples were quite significant in their own right.

On the other hand, their continued revamp and creation of lower level content makes me very happy I have an interest in the >50 content but have really enjoyed levelling my new stalker through the new low level stuff


 

Posted

Interesting

Code:


City of Heroes sales in millions of won

2008	2nd Q	3rd Q	4th Q	2009	2nd Q	3rd Q	4th Q	2010	2nd Q	3rd Q	4th Q	2011	2nd Q	3rd Q	4th Q	2012
 5,416 	 5,743 	 6,193 	 6,865 	 6,837 	 6,673 	 5,471 	 3,928 	 3,348 	 3,491 	 5,709 	 3,239 	 3,051 	 2,787 	 2,812 	 3,435 	 2,890 


	 2008    2009    2010    2011    2012
1st Q	 5,416 	 6,837 	 3,348 	 3,051 	 2,890 
2nd Q	 5,743 	 6,673 	 3,491 	 2,787 	
3rd Q	 6,193 	 5,471 	 5,709 	 2,812 	
4th Q	 6,865 	 3,928 	 3,239 	 3,435 	

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx

I am sure someone will be able to explain how these should be considered a positive.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
What evidence do you have to support this statement "exactly"?
If you honestly think this game is going to be around forever, I hate to see what happens when finally the servers close. It's slowly losing subscribers and slowly people are moving on to other games.

Want evidence? Look up -any- game in history. Slowly, games die. I didn't say it would just shut down tomorrow.. but in a few years.. yeah.

Sorry but you sound like your in denial like anyone else who thinks this game is going to outlast time. I'm sure you believe that you will never leave this earth am I right?

All I'm saying is, and what the video is saying is that power creep is bad because it alienates players and makes players reconsider playing the game. And if people don't play the game, the game eventually loses money. Then it loses support and thus it is technically 'dead'.

Anyone else wanna argue that any game doesn't slowly 'die' ?


Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5 View Post
The part early on about reward creep made me think of the MA system vs. the newer SSAs and trials. Remember how farming the AE used to be THE THING because tickets could get you so much stuff (recipes and salvage)? Now it's all about the merits, tickets are at best a niche reward to chase after. As the devs haven't updated of the rewards for the MA*, now hardly anyone plays with it, farming or otherwise.

*I know that farming and exploiting are reasons they haven't. Still, they could do something with it such as updating rewards for vetted dev choice arcs or whatever, but that's not happened either.
i think the main reason nobody uses it to farm anymore is cause they got their ambush farms nerfed into oblivion lol

so its either wade through a map with baddies tailored to be weak to you, or wade through a map of standard enemies that arent too tough

the AE map is prolly easier to fight through, but you dont get jack for rewards except inf and tickets, or xp if thats what your after

the standard map with standard baddies might be slightly tougher but you also get more rewards such as purples which are unattainable in AE aside from the dev choice content


another potential reason for the lack of AE is the lack of incarnate rewards outside of dev choice, and the only incarnate rewards are shards which most poeple rarely use anymore unless they solo a lot


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Interesting

Code:


City of Heroes sales in millions of won

2008    2nd Q    3rd Q    4th Q    2009    2nd Q    3rd Q    4th Q    2010    2nd Q    3rd Q    4th Q    2011    2nd Q    3rd Q    4th Q    2012
 5,416      5,743      6,193      6,865      6,837      6,673      5,471      3,928      3,348      3,491      5,709      3,239      3,051      2,787      2,812      3,435      2,890 


     2008    2009    2010    2011    2012
1st Q     5,416      6,837      3,348      3,051      2,890 
2nd Q     5,743      6,673      3,491      2,787     
3rd Q     6,193      5,471      5,709      2,812     
4th Q     6,865      3,928      3,239      3,435     

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx

I am sure someone will be able to explain how these should be considered a positive.
Sales lower over time?! SAY IT ISN'T SO!

No, seriously. I don't see anything out of the normal here.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
i think the main reason nobody uses it to farm anymore is cause they got their ambush farms nerfed into oblivion lol
I imagine you mean the exploits, not the farms, those are still alive and well for those who like them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
so its either wade through a map with baddies tailored to be weak to you, or wade through a map of standard enemies that arent too tough

the AE map is prolly easier to fight through, but you dont get jack for rewards except inf and tickets, or xp if thats what your after

the standard map with standard baddies might be slightly tougher but you also get more rewards such as purples which are unattainable in AE aside from the dev choice content

another potential reason for the lack of AE is the lack of incarnate rewards outside of dev choice, and the only incarnate rewards are shards which most poeple rarely use anymore unless they solo a lot
In other words, yes, "reward creep", just as I was pointing out.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload View Post

Anyone else wanna argue that any game doesn't slowly 'die' ?

Well I didnt play but..SWG? I heard that combat update thingy..basically Killed the game, right away. I wouldnt call it a slow death.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload View Post
This game is slowly dying and anyone who disagrees is in denial and the best way to keep it around for even just alittle while longer is to some how halt powercreep.
I agree about the slowly dying, but I think in CoX people have always enjoyed powercreep more than in other games.

When we became too powerful instead of reigning us in they let us run on x8 so we could kill more stuff, and people rejoiced.

I think the sudden power creep the NPC's have had is what is killing the game, not the other way around (IE: Suddenly needing a full league to run content rather than small team or solo).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
Well I didnt play but..SWG? I heard that combat update thingy..basically Killed the game, right away. I wouldnt call it a slow death.
It only closed this year. So it limped on for quite a while with a lot of hardcore fans.

I see CoX being in a very similar situation, but it was never popular enough to see the kind of rage or publicity SW:G ever got.

I hardly see anyone doing anything that isn't a trial anymore, the game certainly feels as dead as NGO SW:G did. With just the hardcore fans still clinging on and saying everything is better than ever. Very similar.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload View Post
If you honestly think this game is going to be around forever, I hate to see what happens when finally the servers close. It's slowly losing subscribers and slowly people are moving on to other games.

Want evidence? Look up -any- game in history. Slowly, games die. I didn't say it would just shut down tomorrow.. but in a few years.. yeah.

Sorry but you sound like your in denial like anyone else who thinks this game is going to outlast time. I'm sure you believe that you will never leave this earth am I right?

All I'm saying is, and what the video is saying is that power creep is bad because it alienates players and makes players reconsider playing the game. And if people don't play the game, the game eventually loses money. Then it loses support and thus it is technically 'dead'.

Anyone else wanna argue that any game doesn't slowly 'die' ?
I never said a GD thing about this or any game being around forever. Is this what kids do today make stuff up instead of providing the proof to support their overstatement?

Whatever...Pfft.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar View Post
It only closed this year. So it limped on for quite a while with a lot of hardcore fans.

I see CoX being in a very similar situation, but it was never popular enough to see the kind of rage or publicity SW:G ever got.

I hardly see anyone doing anything that isn't a trial anymore, the game certainly feels as dead as NGO SW:G did. With just the hardcore fans still clinging on and saying everything is better than ever. Very similar.
Think you need to try another server. Freedom and Virt here. ANd yeah, lots of trials..but also many event teams, and tfs, and tips teams..pug teams in zones..Yeah..totally dont see anyone..


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
Think you need to try another server. Freedom and Virt here. ANd yeah, lots of trials..but also many event teams, and tfs, and tips teams..pug teams in zones..Yeah..totally dont see anyone..
Except that Union was the most populated EU server and stayed that way until incarnates. It probably still is the most populated one, but only because the others are on their last legs.

Whenever I log on I only see 2 servers with more than 1 dot, and it was never like that before. Especially considering the other weekend there was a new release, and it still didn't attract many people.

But I don't think it is anything to do with the game being too easy or you being too powerful, I honestly think that was the draw for many.


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British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar View Post
Except that Union was the most populated EU server and stayed that way until incarnates. It probably still is the most populated one, but only because the others are on their last legs.

Whenever I log on I only see 2 servers with more than 1 dot, and it was never like that before. Especially considering the other weekend there was a new release, and it still didn't attract many people.

But I don't think it is anything to do with the game being too easy or you being too powerful, I honestly think that was the draw for many.
Union's population isn't really to the same scale as Freedom or Virtue though. Could it be that the server lists were merged and a lot of people decided to go to Freedom or Virtue? No, never.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowzone View Post
Union's population isn't really to the same scale as Freedom or Virtue though. Could it be that the server lists were merged and a lot of people decided to go to Freedom or Virtue? No, never.
Freedom and Virtue aren't any more populated than they once were though, or they would be red all the time considering the amount of people Union and other servers seem to have lost.

Edit: I also don't know a single person who has moved servers, but I do know at least 50-60 people that have left or severely cut down on game time.


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British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"