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I don't recall Power Siphon's tohit buff stacking, although I was using it on a Tanker and haven't played him in a while.
KM Stalkers with their Build Up refresh will probably be able to leverage snipes quite nicely.
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in MIDS it appears to stack if you move the slider up. don't know in game.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
I don't recall Power Siphon's tohit buff stacking, although I was using it on a Tanker and haven't played him in a while.
KM Stalkers with their Build Up refresh will probably be able to leverage snipes quite nicely. |
Build Up refreshes on stalkers when CS crits right? So if you AS->CS you're guaranteed a crit (under ATO) about every other 10 seconds?
Interesting. Add Moonbeam and Shadow Meld, profit.
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
in MIDS it appears to stack if you move the slider up. don't know in game.
Build Up refreshes on stalkers when CS crits right? So if you AS->CS you're guaranteed a crit (under ATO) about every other 10 seconds? Interesting. Add Moonbeam and Shadow Meld, profit. |
I'll just leave this here.....
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.956
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
De-Light_I24_1: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), GS-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(25), GS-Acc/End/Rech(31)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(34), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Shadow Punch -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg(5), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(7), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(15), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(31), GA-3defTpProc(40)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(9), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(13), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(25)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(11), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(46), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(19), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19)
Level 20: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(21), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(21), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 24: Resist Elements -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(42), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(43)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(A), GSFC-Build%(27), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(27), GSFC-ToHit(40), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48)
Level 28: Invincibility -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(29), HO:Cyto(29)
Level 30: Resist Energies -- Aegis-Psi/Status(A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SScrappersS-Rchg/+Crit(A), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg(33), SScrappersS-Dmg/Rchg(33), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SScrappersS-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Moonbeam -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(36), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(37), GJ-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(39), Ksmt-ToHit+(39)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Soul Storm -- UbrkCons-Dam%(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(48), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(48), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(50), UbrkCons-Hold(50)
Level 49: Shadow Meld -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 4: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(45), RgnTis-Regen+(45)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 4: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(43)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
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Code:
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Actually, a KM with high recharge can leverage a bit better than 15-20/s. Power Siphon has its 20/s duration, but you also continue a "cool down" effect of the power, meaning you're likely to sustain that To-Hit buff for an additional 5/s or so. That can leave a very little window of downtime (8/s for my KM/SR). However, it did take me a minute to find something in DA strong enough to survive a quick test, but the buff from Power Siphon only triggers once on the first attack (11.25% with a Gaussian's Set).
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Trouble is PS seems to have 15-20 sec downtime.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Soul Drain can be perma...I actually put together a build for a guy the other day on a DM/Regen brute that had perma Soul Drain, and it wasn't using ageless...
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
Because dm needed more damage compared to other sets...
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Can we be sure the snipe buff will also go to PPP snipes?
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Yes, every snipe except LRM.
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Originally Posted by Cheetatron
Can we be sure the snipe buff will also go to PPP snipes?
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So, here's some numbers I pulled from MID's:
Scrapper Soul Mastery:
Moonbeam: Cast 1.524 Damage 143.9 DPA: 93.83
Brute Soul Mastery:
Gloom: Cast: 1.32 Damage 73.41 DPA: 55.61
Are these accurate?
I mean, Brutes love Gloom for it's high DPA.... And Moonbeam is now MUCH better than Gloom?
Have I made some dreadful error? (Because the build I posted is SO GETTIN' BUILT if no mistake is here.)
Well, if you adjust for AT mods, they have roughly the same DPA (which is still quite good). And of course moonbeam has the tohit requirement that will make it difficult to toss into a standard attack chain for most builds.
So it seems promising, but won't be easily dethroning SS/Fire/Soul or anything.
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When you include Fury into the equation, Gloom is still significantly better. With just 50% Fury, its DPA rises to 111, and at 70% Fury it jumps to 133.5. Moonbeam isn't going to displace Gloom any time soon. |
Originally Posted by mauk2
I mean, Brutes love Gloom for it's high DPA.... And Moonbeam is now MUCH better than Gloom?
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The Snipe Change will have impact on DM and KM for sure, as Granite suspects, but probably not in the areas that everyone is anticipating yet. For Stalkers, Kinetic Melee's highest DPA (besides AS) is Concentrated Strike, for 65. Moonbeam under Stalker Modifier is 80 DPA, and becomes next in line after CS. AS > CS with Hide Proc is auto-Build Up, and BU gives 20% To-Hit. A single Kismet in the build will make the Snipe a for-sure contender in that chain (somewhere) and is going to do something crazy to their chains. I'd probably expect the Snipe to get worked in around a BU for all Stalker chains, in fact. 80 DPA is at the top-margin of damage for them and is going to push their boundaries even further ahead.
Edit: I actually just did a quick run through after I thought about it. Stalker Energy Melee - Energy Transfer (87.32 DPA) and Stalker Street Justice - Crushing Uppercut (81.87) are the only two Stalker Primary attacks with a DPA over 80. Everything else is less, with few of the sets having an average over 60 DPA for any attack. If the Snipes are really going to be that strong, I could see Weaponized Sets choking the redraw for 80 DPA.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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Well, phooey. Okay, so brutes are still so good they're broken.|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
When you include Fury into the equation, Gloom is still significantly better. With just 50% Fury, its DPA rises to 111, and at 70% Fury it jumps to 133.5. Moonbeam isn't going to displace Gloom any time soon.
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That said, how does perma-fast moonbeam compare to other scrapper attacks? For example, I have a truly ancient claws/invuln that can get over 22 percent to-hit effortlessly using followup. Is it worth it on that sort of a toon?
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| If the Snipes are really going to be that strong, I could see Weaponized Sets choking the redraw for 80 DPA. |
Why are you choking that poor redraw?!
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Well, phooey. Okay, so brutes are still so good they're broken.
That said, how does perma-fast moonbeam compare to other scrapper attacks? For example, I have a truly ancient claws/invuln that can get over 22 percent to-hit effortlessly using followup. Is it worth it on that sort of a toon? |
Invuln will most likely get you a chunk of To-Hit on its own as well, Follow Up aside. But, that'd be your call, not mine, as mentioned below :P I feel I should mention, though, that for Scrappers the Snipes have a considerable Recharge on them (20+). I worked it into a DM/SD build, but it can only be repeated as the fifth attack in the chain; despite that it does add about 15 DPS with its inclusion.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
...wth does that even MEAN?! :0
Why are you choking that poor redraw?! |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
John is stud. Nuff said.
I played around in MIDS and one issue may be recharge. I think the PPP snipes have 20 second recharge? So you'll have to have a pretty high recharge build to work them into a chain on a regular basis.
Any scrapper with a Kismet, tactics, and bio armor in offensive mode will be able to have enough tohit for it to be perma. On beta Offensive Mode currently gives 7% to hit. Kismet is another 6%. Tactics can get you the rest I think. I'd have to look. Also if it weren't for that horrible re-draw claws/db would be great for it.
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Looks like 6-slot Gaussian in scrapper tactics gives 11.03%?
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Originally Posted by TommyTrD
Any scrapper with a Kismet, tactics, and bio armor in offensive mode will be able to have enough tohit for it to be perma. On beta Offensive Mode currently gives 7% to hit. Kismet is another 6%. Tactics can get you the rest I think. I'd have to look. Also if it weren't for that horrible re-draw claws/db would be great for it.
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And its 22 for insta snipe? Win.
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Looks like 6-slot Gaussian in scrapper tactics gives 11.03%?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TommyTrD
Any scrapper with a Kismet, tactics, and bio armor in offensive mode will be able to have enough tohit for it to be perma. On beta Offensive Mode currently gives 7% to hit. Kismet is another 6%. Tactics can get you the rest I think. I'd have to look. Also if it weren't for that horrible re-draw claws/db would be great for it.
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Invuln is probably the strongest +tohit secondary set, with Invincibility giving +2 percent per foe base, +3 percent each with three cytos.
Dark Melee and Claws/Spines are probably the strongest +tohit primary sets, with perma soul drain or followup.
My opinion...
Snipes..
Scrappers?
Unless you've got an extreme RP thing going on.... Yeah, right. No thanks. I'm not gonna muck with anything to add in a (lol) snipe. Even is it's marginally better for the moment, I don't see reason to see it'll stay better. Even is it does, I see no reason to chase the +tohit for a mild +DPA on one (single target only) attack.
Thanks, but my scrappers are scrappers. I'll let them continue to act like it.. Chasing ranged damage thingies is a blaster thing..
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Er yeah, and if you add damage slotting the DPA soars to 185. Or, approximately the same number as the scrapper is getting from moonbeam with damage slotting. Scrappers are known to occasionally slot their powers for damage, and you should see what happens when they get buffs on top of that! Say, I don't know, power siphon or soul drain?
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
When you include Fury into the equation, Gloom is still significantly better. With just 50% Fury, its DPA rises to 111, and at 70% Fury it jumps to 133.5. Moonbeam isn't going to displace Gloom any time soon.
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Chasing performance by any method is a longtime hobby for, at least, some subset of scrappers. I forget, was it BillZBubba that clawed his own wings off to improve his pylon time? |
Originally Posted by Madadh
Thanks, but my scrappers are scrappers. I'll let them continue to act like it.. Chasing ranged damage thingies is a blaster thing..
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Personally, I'm not planning to go out of my way just for a snipe, but if I want Ball Lightning or Shadow Meld anyway, it's probably worth picking up.
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I'm looking at it from a 1 Target in range perspective.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Invuln is probably the strongest +tohit secondary set, with Invincibility giving +2 percent per foe base, +3 percent each with three cytos.
Dark Melee and Claws/Spines are probably the strongest +tohit primary sets, with perma soul drain or followup. |
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Since you wanted to talk specifics, and some sarcasm often just gets me the wrong way:|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Er yeah, and if you add damage slotting the DPA soars to 185. Or, approximately the same number as the scrapper is getting from moonbeam with damage slotting. Scrappers are known to occasionally slot their powers for damage, and you should see what happens when they get buffs on top of that! Say, I don't know, power siphon or soul drain?
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Scrapper using Moonbeam with three damage IO's and Musculature Core T4: 210.1 DPA
--with Soul Drain (7 Targets): 319.2
Brute using Gloom with three damage IO's and Musculature Core T4 and 100% Fury: 239.9
--with Soul Drain (7 Targets): 293.2
Well known fact: Scrappers benefits significantly in the realm of +Dam% compared to its heavier cousins.
On an average scale Gloom is still greater than [New] Moonbeam (or any [New] snipes) when not accounting for extraneous sources like Soul Drain. In terms of the discussion of fitting a Snipe into a Scrapper build, there are only two very specific scenarios where said Snipe is going to outperform--on average--Gloom (Power Siphon and Soul Drain). On flat enhancement at the capacity a build can naturally generate, Gloom is going to be marginally better. And when you're number crunching for the high-end, that makes the difference. With that having been said, on basis of my original response to the original statement regarding Gloom vs. Moonbeam, again, no, Moonbeam is not MUCH better, in fact, it takes (some) effort to contend or surpass Gloom; especially when you account for the fact that you must have X recharge, Y To-Hit, and Z +Dam to do it.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
Unless you've got an extreme RP thing going on.... Yeah, right. No thanks. I'm not gonna muck with anything to add in a (lol) snipe. Even is it's marginally better for the moment, I don't see reason to see it'll stay better. Even is it does, I see no reason to chase the +tohit for a mild +DPA on one (single target only) attack.
Thanks, but my scrappers are scrappers. I'll let them continue to act like it.. Chasing ranged damage thingies is a blaster thing.. |
If you "tl;dr" then: I'm not trying to say "go get Snipe!", I'm just saying, maybe you shouldn't "tl;dr".
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
So ... quick research has me thinking that KM and DM are best positioned to leverage Snipes 2.0.
No redraw.
Power Siphon lasts 20 seconds and seems to get you over 22% to hit with 2 applications (assuming 6 slot Gaussian). If you add Tactics and Kismet somewhere, you get there with 1 application. Trouble is PS seems to have 15-20 sec downtime.
Soul Drain can be close to perma uptime (30 up, 5 down). Again it's a little hard to tell in MIDS but it looks like maybe it gets you there with enough mobs if you have tactics and Kismet.
Moonbeam 2.0 looks to have better damage and DPA than several attacks in each set.
Discuss.