Calm down. The devs don't just randomly nerf things because players complain about them. As much as people tend to hype the moments when things are nerfed, they are extremely rare for existing powers with no critical balance issues, and *never* just because players complain about them. Ever.
The devs are unwilling to touch Rage, Drain Psyche, and other powers that clearly are broken pretty badly, whatever apologies some make for them. And when they swung the nerf bat at Brute Fury, the bat was itself made of nerf, and then one ATIO totally mooted the changes.
The last time the devs looked in the general direction of Dominators they were significantly buffed. I am unaware of any reason why anyone should be worried about the devs going after Dominators any time in the intermediate future.
The devs are never going to stop balancing things, and that means sometimes some things will go up and some will go down. None of us can stop that, we all have to learn to deal with it. But if the devs have Seeds of Confusion in their sights, stopping all players from complaining about it won't change that. Conversely, if its not, a bunch of random forum complaints won't put it there either.
Relax and enjoy the game. 99.9% of all player complaints about powers needing to be nerfed go unheeded. How unlucky do you believe yourself to be?
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Arcana, there have been posts, I have read them, of players complaining that this or that Dominator power or set is broken.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Calm down. The devs don't just randomly nerf things because players complain about them. As much as people tend to hype the moments when things are nerfed, they are extremely rare for existing powers with no critical balance issues, and *never* just because players complain about them. Ever.
The devs are unwilling to touch Rage, Drain Psyche, and other powers that clearly are broken pretty badly, whatever apologies some make for them. And when they swung the nerf bat at Brute Fury, the bat was itself made of nerf, and then one ATIO totally mooted the changes. The last time the devs looked in the general direction of Dominators they were significantly buffed. I am unaware of any reason why anyone should be worried about the devs going after Dominators any time in the intermediate future. The devs are never going to stop balancing things, and that means sometimes some things will go up and some will go down. None of us can stop that, we all have to learn to deal with it. But if the devs have Seeds of Confusion in their sights, stopping all players from complaining about it won't change that. Conversely, if its not, a bunch of random forum complaints won't put it there either. Relax and enjoy the game. 99.9% of all player complaints about powers needing to be nerfed go unheeded. How unlucky do you believe yourself to be? |
I am pointing at a very important and essential aspect - The IO'd perma this, perma that, decked out Dominator. I think players need to keep in mind, and Developers have to always take into account that IOs and Incarnate buffs/bonuses change Doms to practically a whole new AT, in a good way, of course.
Also, Arcana, with all due respect. I remember arguing with you that players did not need a nerf to Elusivity in PvP since at that time many players were just building pvp toons badly when i13 had just been released. With the knowledge and experience many players had or have in more recent times, the former elusivity would not be an item that players just needed a solution handed in a platter to them. Yet, they listened to you, and others.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
If you dont think SoC is even a LITTLE OP on doms, you have no idea whatever.
I like how doms are now, with Ios and perma, however..I DID play them back when we only had SOs. By your own admission, you tried doms and didnt like them.
Now, don't take this the wrong way, but to me..that just puts you firmly in the camp with allll the other people who were too bad at the AT, to actually PLAY it without perma dom.
And Permadom itself. If you dont think that is OP, again, you have no idea. No other AT gets something as good as Dom, that is NOT even meant to be perma. The very fact we can do it, to me, is just silly, since ED was to stop similar things with other powers.
Much as I love my permadoms, and I really really do, if Domination got nerfed, I would totally still love them.
Keep enjoying your crutch.
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The original 30% elusivity was never going to stand. It was practically a random shot in the dark: the devs said they would test with that value and then adjust it based on testing.|
Originally Posted by Commando
Arcana, there have been posts, I have read them, of players complaining that this or that Dominator power or set is broken.
I am pointing at a very important and essential aspect - The IO'd perma this, perma that, decked out Dominator. I think players need to keep in mind, and Developers have to always take into account that IOs and Incarnate buffs/bonuses change Doms to practically a whole new AT, in a good way, of course. Also, Arcana, with all due respect. I remember arguing with you that players did not need a nerf to Elusivity in PvP since at that time many players were just building pvp toons badly when i13 had just been released. With the knowledge and experience many players had or have in more recent times, the former elusivity would not be an item that players just needed a solution handed in a platter to them. Yet, they listened to you, and others. |
Did they listen to me? Well, I did say publicly that that value was too high, and it was too high, but if they listened to me every powerset would have had a different Elusivity strength. Also as I specified in my post on the public forums about this very subject they would have, you'd think actually used my system to calculate what that value should have been.
Since I'm only the inventor of Elusivity and not an actual dev, they didn't actually do what I specified was supposed to be done. So I don't think they actually listened to me.
But that's sort of your problem. You have an interpretation of the world that is not only stressful, but false. And that seems to be unnecessarily self-flagellating. Myself personally, when I get to the point where I would even consider posting something like the OP, I just take a break from the forums. The forums are not the game. The game is the game. The forums are a metagame, and not even a particularly profitable one. You should only play the metagame when it enhances your enjoyment of the actual game.
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At release Plant was the only primary designed specifically for Doms. Every other primary was a cost saving port of an existing controller primary and since none of those were specifically designed for Doms they did not work the best.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
If you dont think SoC is even a LITTLE OP on doms, you have no idea whatever.
I like how doms are now, with Ios and perma, however..I DID play them back when we only had SOs. By your own admission, you tried doms and didnt like them. Now, don't take this the wrong way, but to me..that just puts you firmly in the camp with allll the other people who were too bad at the AT, to actually PLAY it without perma dom. And Permadom itself. If you dont think that is OP, again, you have no idea. No other AT gets something as good as Dom, that is NOT even meant to be perma. The very fact we can do it, to me, is just silly, since ED was to stop similar things with other powers. Much as I love my permadoms, and I really really do, if Domination got nerfed, I would totally still love them. Keep enjoying your crutch. |
The Plant/Thorns Dominator was THE design target for Doms. The reason it is where it is now is that all of the other primaries dropped the ball and the Dom concept was not a good one for the game at the time.
CoV was City of Brutes and Master Minds. 2/3 of all villains were one or the other. Of the remaining 1/3, half were corruptors, of that remaining half 2/3s were Doms. People didn't play Doms because Dom mechanics were clunky (a PBAoE and a Cone for AOE? What were the original devs thinking?)
Plant is where it is today because all the other primaries and the Dom concept together kinda sucked and it all needed buffed to bring it up out of the dark ages and into a condition that more than just a few masochists would play it.
Do IOs make it OP? Sure. But then IOs make every thing OP. (Except blasters of course, IO'd blasters just barely make par).
Do incarnate powers make things OP? Sure. But that's what an Incarnate is SUPPOSED to be. (Except for blasters of course, most blasters are locked into a certain set of incarnate powers to try and shore up their weaknesses instead of making them into minor deities like the other ATs).
Its a super hero/villain game after all. The goal is to become OP. If you weren't OP you'd just be an armed thug and anyone can be that.
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-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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How about no? I've advocated for nerfing Seeds of Confusion and it has absolutely nothing to do with either IOs or perma-dom. It has everything to do with the fact that the power is an outlier among all controls: longer base duration, faster recharge, and higher innate accuracy than its peers. I've promoted the idea of changing it for both controllers and dominators.|
Originally Posted by Commando
There is a vast performance and power difference between a fully decked out with IO dominator and one who is not. The difference between a fully decked out Dominator with IOs and one who uses SOs or generic IOs, is like a difference between two different ATs.
Why do you I state this? I have read suggestions by other posters about nerfing Seeds of Confusion for Plant Doms, or nerfing this or that for whatever Dom. STOP ! STOP it ! |
If you believe the call for changes to Seeds of Confusion hinges around perma-domination then you are grossly misinformed.
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Great argument..and totally wrong. My blasters were fine..before IOs. I level them without any (but a few procs) and they are fine. I don't know where you pull your magical PAR from, but since all you seem to do is moan about how blasters suck..maybe you should just..you know..play something ELSE?|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Do IOs make it OP? Sure. But then IOs make every thing OP. (Except blasters of course, IO'd blasters just barely make par). |
Nevermind the fact that blaster performance has nothing to do with doms, especially ONE power in a dom set.
Also..your argument that no one played doms why..because plant thorns had a cone and pbaoe? OMG, wow, how could anyone cope with that stress. Managing two powers. Crazy. I am amazed people who tried didnt end up rocking in corners and gibbering. Because again..using ONE example, that requires two power sets...is such a great argument, as to how the whole AT was someone wrong.
I know people who played doms pre IOs. And were flat out amazing, doing things I'd never seen (granted I was pretty new). As for holding up the recentish dom 'buff' (no +dam with dom) that some people call a nerf...it actually made the AT better, with less need for perma dom for some decent damage.
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This, minus the actual nerf call (hey...i LIKE the OP SoC). Seeds is a perma-capable power before are even taken into concideration. This makes it into one of the single most powerful controls available to doms and controllers alike, and a large part of the reason that Plant is concidered a top tier set. Don't believe me? Go try fighting confuse resistant mobs.|
Originally Posted by ketch
How about no? I've advocated for nerfing Seeds of Confusion and it has absolutely nothing to do with either IOs or perma-dom. It has everything to do with the fact that the power is an outlier among all controls: longer base duration, faster recharge, and higher innate accuracy than its peers. I've promoted the idea of changing it for both controllers and dominators.
If you believe the call for changes to Seeds of Confusion hinges around perma-domination then you are grossly misinformed. |
However...as powerful as Seeds is, another reason you don't see me making the nerf call to it is because for as powerful as this can be, it has one rather nasty little side-effect not shared by any other confuse power in the game. It generates AGGRO! This alone makes it a bit of a "use at your own risk" power. Granted that risk is usually minimal...but it is there. And one that has bit me on a few occasions, too.
On the subject of IO's:
If it took you IO's to start enjoying doms...then you were doing it wrong. I have a few dommies, and of those...not a single one is Perma-dom...tho one of those is a few seconds short of it...and he's not even my highest level dom at that. I enjoyed my doms when they were first released, though i'll grant you my first one was a plant/thorn dom. Still have him too. Ironically he's only like lvl 46 and i've had him since nearly CoV's launch (i have a severe case of altitus). The change to Domination and doms getting consistant damage made me like them even more.
I don't really care much about IO's. I don't know all of the in's and out's of io sets, but I am slowly learning how to take advantage of them. So, for the most part, my doms are mostly SO's, Common IO's, and a smattering here and there of set IO's (and procs like LoTG: +Rech).
I play my doms because i enjoy the playstyle of them...not because of what they can do on a gajillion and 2 inf, io'd to the gills build. ...Maybe i'm just weird that way.
P.S. I apologize about the slight rant above, but the OP just gave me a bit of a feeling of "IO or FAIL" vibe and it kinda tweaked me off a tad bit. Probably wasn't really the intent...hence my apology.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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You have a perception problem. If you want to talk in golf terms PAR is the average that all players should be able to make. That you and a few other players can Ace or Eagle holes consistently doesn't change par at all. No magic about it what so ever.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
Great argument..and totally wrong. My blasters were fine..before IOs. I level them without any (but a few procs) and they are fine. I don't know where you pull your magical PAR from, but since all you seem to do is moan about how blasters suck..maybe you should just..you know..play something ELSE?
Nevermind the fact that blaster performance has nothing to do with doms, especially ONE power in a dom set. Also..your argument that no one played doms why..because plant thorns had a cone and pbaoe? OMG, wow, how could anyone cope with that stress. Managing two powers. Crazy. I am amazed people who tried didnt end up rocking in corners and gibbering. Because again..using ONE example, that requires two power sets...is such a great argument, as to how the whole AT was someone wrong. I know people who played doms pre IOs. And were flat out amazing, doing things I'd never seen (granted I was pretty new). As for holding up the recentish dom 'buff' (no +dam with dom) that some people call a nerf...it actually made the AT better, with less need for perma dom for some decent damage. |
People didn't play doms because the mechanics were (and still are to some extent) clunky. ALL the assault sets (except stone and thorns) feature a cone and a PBAoE for AoE. This means you have to jump back and forth from PBAoE range to cone range to make them effective and if your primary has an offensive mitigation toggle lose the effect of that toggle that you may depend on for that time.
There would have been no issue there if the cone had been a TAoE in all those sets.
The other reason that few people played Doms was the entire Jekyll and Hyde concept that Doms were designed with. Most players don't like being really powerful for a short time and really sucky the rest. They want to smooth it out more and be powerful most of the time and decent the rest of the time. That's pretty much what the Dom revamp did.
BTW I played CoV from release and an Ice/Ice Dom was my main. I didn't care for Red side for a variety of reasons and stopped playing red side when I ran out of content (which was pretty quick actually). I've been happy with Going Rogue (at least once we could create villain ATs hero side to start with) since it lets me play the villain ATs on blue side and avoid the things that I don't like about red side. That gave me quite a few new things to tinker with and I am just now starting to run low on new ideas.
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-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I think the OPs logic is a bit off here,
His argument seems to be that Doms benefit unfairly from set IOs and Incarnates vs. Doms without, and as a result are over powered.
By implication of his argument, he would be indirectly saying( regardless if he meant to), that other ATs do not benefit as much by set IOs and Incarnates.
With regards to set IOs, every AT benefits, and there are vast differences between builds with and without set IOs. With some specific sets benefiting more than others, just like with doms. I have any number of alts from different AT's who have soft capped defense
Same with Incarnates, a Blaster w/ the final tier of Barrier has MUCH more survivability than one without.
If the argument is specifically SoC, a couple of questions to the OP here,
1-Is it overpowered when slotted by a build w/o set IOs or Incarnates?
2-Do you consider Synaptic Overload overpowered? It has pretty close the same Recharge/ Duration.
Quote:
Tiny little nitpick here, MK.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
ALL the assault sets (except stone and thorns) feature a cone and a PBAoE for AoE. This means you have to jump back and forth from PBAoE range to cone range to make them effective and if your primary has an offensive mitigation toggle lose the effect of that toggle that you may depend on for that time.
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Thorns does have both a cone and PBAoE for Aoe. Fling Thorns (cone) and Thorn Burst (PBAoE).
Spot on with Stone, though.
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I should correct some statements or suggestions made by others --
If any of the posters here thought or said I did not play Doms before IOs, they are wrong. I did. I tried Doms a very very long time ago, since I got CoV. I posted earlier when I started playing the game.
When I tried Doms, Dominators had poor damage, and outside of domination, the controls were just OK, no chance to crit like controllers had, and no secondaries to help control the situation(s). Before IOs, Controllers were my favorite ATs to play. Dominators had to wait for Domination for the damage to be good, and for the controls to be better. Dominators were among the least played ATs, if not the least. Kheldians were played more than Dominators did. Then again, Blue side always was played more than red. I just mention Kheldians because pre IOs, to me, Kheldians were just another way to play at yet another increase in difficulty level (slot starvation anyone??). Oh, VEATS, how I love you !
My first Dom to 50 was my Ice/Fire, pre IOs, and when Dominator dmg was good only when Domination was up. I loved Ice on my controllers, and I loved Fire blast. I combined them. Fiery Embrace... it could not come soon enough pre IOs. I used to feel I was excited when I got it because when it recharged for me to use, then I could more than dent something, woot !!
I won't go on with all my history on the Doms I played or tried pre IOs. I will tell you this. NO ONE I KNEW WHO PLAYED DOMS EVER WANTED ANYTHING NERFED FROM DOMINATORS BEFORE IO's EXISTED. Never was anything posted on the forums about "please nerf this or that Dom" -- That's a fact.
Players had been pleading for some love to be given to Dominators. The dmg buff was given later, wooot! When IOs came out, most Dominator players wanted to deck them out, but IOs were way too expensive relative to how poor players were back then. They wanted to IO, and the number one reason for IO'ing a Dom was, and I think still is, for perma Domination. Outside of Domination performance was meh or less then meh. Dmg was not good, and the controls were not as good, and the endurance issues were ... not a good combo.
When do I start seeing some players ask for a nerf to this or that from Dominators ? AFTER IOs. After you see many Dominators rolling around decked out.
Like Arcana said earlier. The times the Devs have given attention to Dominators was to give them some love, and rightly so !!!
Want to nerf your Dom? Strip him or her from all IOs. Do it, play it, watch other players do the same, and come back and post that Dominators, any one of them, should be nerfed. No one, pre-IOs, campaigned for nerfs to Dominators. After IOs is when anyone or any group of players started thinking about nerf to Doms.
Yes, IOs make a HUGE difference to ANY AT. For example, if any player wants to nerf ss/fire Brutes, all right, very easy, strip them from the IOs. Play an ss/fire Brute with no IOs, then come back and tell me you still feel they should be nerfed. Strip ANY brute of all IOs, and then come back and talk about how different it is. The reason Brutes and MMs were the most popular BY FAR ATs to play when CoV came out?? Yep, they sucked the least to solo with or play in general in solo mode as well as team. MMs were the easiest to solo play.
Stop asking for any nerfs to Dominators. A huge chunk of the reason Dominators can perform really well is because of IOs and incarnates. Before IOs, Dominators had to be buffed, like the Devs did, so their decent damage was done even outside of domination.
I still think Dominators are among the least played ATs in the game. If they ever grew to a much larger pool of players, it was, in a significant proportion, thanks to IOs.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
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I excepted thorns because it has a very short ranged cone (Fling Thorns), A PBAoE (Thorn Burst), a TAoE patch power (Thorntrops), and a melee cone (Ripper) that has the identical Arc that Fling thorns does making it quite easy to line up and providing no operational clunkyness. You don't have to give up AoE with Thorns because there are more than 2 choices and they dove tail better than any other assault set.|
Originally Posted by RaikenX
Tiny little nitpick here, MK.
Thorns does have both a cone and PBAoE for Aoe. Fling Thorns (cone) and Thorn Burst (PBAoE). Spot on with Stone, though. |
I also forgot to mention that Energy Assault lacks a cone but Whirling Hands is such a dud that it plays almost as if it had no AoE at all.
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-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Errr... you do realize its damage/range was normalized with all other dominator PbAoE's, yes? It's a 15 foot radius pbAoE that is smack dab between tremor and ice sword circle.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
....
I also forgot to mention that Energy Assault lacks a cone but Whirling Hands is such a dud that it plays almost as if it had no AoE at all. |
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Yes and I'm aware of the cast times and recharge values. The difference is that WH is a 30% chance for a mag 2 stun.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Errr... you do realize its damage/range was normalized with all other dominator PbAoE's, yes? It's a 15 foot radius pbAoE that is smack dab between tremor and ice sword circle.
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Tremor is a 50% chance of KD which can affect Bosses in one application.
Ice Sword Circle is a 100% chance for -10% recharge and -10% movement on every thing not resistant/immune to slows.
No doubt in my mind which of the 3 is the low performer.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Wha? How so?! Energy Assault is fine right now! It got a huge buff. It's also ST focused.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Yes and I'm aware of the cast times and recharge values. The difference is that WH is a 30% chance for a mag 2 stun.
Tremor is a 50% chance of KD which can affect Bosses in one application. Ice Sword Circle is a 100% chance for -10% recharge and -10% movement on every thing not resistant/immune to slows. No doubt in my mind which of the 3 is the low performer. |
Quote:
Is this anything other than a huge strawman? Where are you seeing people asking for a nerf to doms (other than specific changes to Plant due to its performance for doms and controllers)? The closest thing I can even recall is maybe in blaster discussions when someone suggests playing a dom for more safety and similar damage. However, those threads are focused on buffing Blasters far more than asking for nerfs for doms. If anything I've seen the idea of nerfing melee ATs floated out far more often. Here on the dom boards, where are you seeing these call for nerfs? There have been far more threads focused on buffing sets like Ice and very few calls for nerfs (again with the exception of a few of us calling for changes to Plant).|
Originally Posted by Commando
I should correct some statements or suggestions made by others --
If any of the posters here thought or said I did not play Doms before IOs, they are wrong. I did. I tried Doms a very very long time ago, since I got CoV. I posted earlier when I started playing the game. When I tried Doms, Dominators had poor damage, and outside of domination, the controls were just OK, no chance to crit like controllers had, and no secondaries to help control the situation(s). Before IOs, Controllers were my favorite ATs to play. Dominators had to wait for Domination for the damage to be good, and for the controls to be better. Dominators were among the least played ATs, if not the least. Kheldians were played more than Dominators did. Then again, Blue side always was played more than red. I just mention Kheldians because pre IOs, to me, Kheldians were just another way to play at yet another increase in difficulty level (slot starvation anyone??). Oh, VEATS, how I love you ! My first Dom to 50 was my Ice/Fire, pre IOs, and when Dominator dmg was good only when Domination was up. I loved Ice on my controllers, and I loved Fire blast. I combined them. Fiery Embrace... it could not come soon enough pre IOs. I used to feel I was excited when I got it because when it recharged for me to use, then I could more than dent something, woot !! I won't go on with all my history on the Doms I played or tried pre IOs. I will tell you this. NO ONE I KNEW WHO PLAYED DOMS EVER WANTED ANYTHING NERFED FROM DOMINATORS BEFORE IO's EXISTED. Never was anything posted on the forums about "please nerf this or that Dom" -- That's a fact. Players had been pleading for some love to be given to Dominators. The dmg buff was given later, wooot! When IOs came out, most Dominator players wanted to deck them out, but IOs were way too expensive relative to how poor players were back then. They wanted to IO, and the number one reason for IO'ing a Dom was, and I think still is, for perma Domination. Outside of Domination performance was meh or less then meh. Dmg was not good, and the controls were not as good, and the endurance issues were ... not a good combo. When do I start seeing some players ask for a nerf to this or that from Dominators ? AFTER IOs. After you see many Dominators rolling around decked out. Like Arcana said earlier. The times the Devs have given attention to Dominators was to give them some love, and rightly so !!! Want to nerf your Dom? Strip him or her from all IOs. Do it, play it, watch other players do the same, and come back and post that Dominators, any one of them, should be nerfed. No one, pre-IOs, campaigned for nerfs to Dominators. After IOs is when anyone or any group of players started thinking about nerf to Doms. Yes, IOs make a HUGE difference to ANY AT. For example, if any player wants to nerf ss/fire Brutes, all right, very easy, strip them from the IOs. Play an ss/fire Brute with no IOs, then come back and tell me you still feel they should be nerfed. Strip ANY brute of all IOs, and then come back and talk about how different it is. The reason Brutes and MMs were the most popular BY FAR ATs to play when CoV came out?? Yep, they sucked the least to solo with or play in general in solo mode as well as team. MMs were the easiest to solo play. Stop asking for any nerfs to Dominators. A huge chunk of the reason Dominators can perform really well is because of IOs and incarnates. Before IOs, Dominators had to be buffed, like the Devs did, so their decent damage was done even outside of domination. I still think Dominators are among the least played ATs in the game. If they ever grew to a much larger pool of players, it was, in a significant proportion, thanks to IOs. |
Can you point to any recent thread where the idea of nerfing doms as a whole or nerfing perma-domination is discussed for more than a single post?
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ST focused would be the problem of course. It makes the road to perma rocky enough that none of my /energy Doms have ever made it there. Doms are the only AT that has access to energy blasts/melee that this is true of.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Wha? How so?! Energy Assault is fine right now! It got a huge buff. It's also ST focused.
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
They are not going to nerf Doms or Plant Control. Plant control is the Control Version of super strength or the Blasters Version of Drain Psyche...it's been around way to long and there would be no gain in nerfing it. Fear not Commando.
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I have yet to get one to 50...I should of went Gravity.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
ST focused would be the problem of course. It makes the road to perma rocky enough that none of my /energy Doms have ever made it there. Doms are the only AT that has access to energy blasts/melee that this is true of.
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I've got a build for a grav/energy dominator that's perma'd. Though given that its me...it may not be the worlds BEST build. I revisit it from time to time just to see what and where i can tweak it.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
ST focused would be the problem of course. It makes the road to perma rocky enough that none of my /energy Doms have ever made it there. Doms are the only AT that has access to energy blasts/melee that this is true of.
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RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
Someone say something funny.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
The reason I posted is because I had been seeing posters, I am not going to mention names, writing and suggesting some nerfs to Dominators.
I don't get much time to post, and I never had the time. I started playing in 2005, joined the forums in about 2006, and my posts are relatively few. I am busy with lots of other things.
I don't have the time to go fetch all postings I have come across where I read suggestions from posters to nerf things about Doms. Believe me, if I took and somehow made the time to write about this is because I do believe that something should be mentioned to the defense of Doms. My statements above are my defense for them.
It's good to see different opinions, at least.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
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Anyone that would suggest that an IO blaster barely makes par is clearly playing with people who have no idea how to play a blaster. |
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
(Except blasters of course, IO'd blasters just barely make par).
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Before this upcoming change to blasters, blasters were awesome in potential. The one weakness is a lack of mez protection. That is easily overcome by playing smart - and really - blasters are not totally mezzed because we can still attack with tier 1 and 2 attacks.
If you've played this game enough, look at some players builds and you ask yourself, how does this player do all that with that build? A blaster with just SOs can still play very well and with the right person behind that blaster, if you didn't look at the info, you'd never know whether they had IOs or not. A good player with a solid IO build is seriously going to outshine more than a few scrappers and brutes.
Granted, not every blaster is the same, nor is every player.
However, with dominators, I'm currently of the opinion that I feel sorry for all of them - but I base this on my own experience with my own dom. Elec/elec. Horribly poor pets -squishy, with a long recharge and weak damage. I haven't given up on the AT - but I have given up on those powersets used together. However, it could be that my play style just doesn't mesh with the strengths of elec/elec. That doesn't mean I think they should change anything. It just means the powersets aren't for me.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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Ironically, I have the opposite feeling. Blasters are squishy, they have some short duration pseudo CC that can't match what a dom will get in their first five primary powers, and they're completely 100% vulnerable to mez. Their primary and secondary powersets have way too many powers that do damage and not enough that do something unique, leading them to have less potential than most other AT's. Being able to access your T1 and T2 blasts while mezzed isn't anything to brag about either, a MM's entire primary power pool keeps working while he's mezzed, and any AT with mez protection can keep all his powers working in 95% of the scenarios where the Blaster would be locked back to his weakest powers. |
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
Anyone that would suggest that an IO blaster barely makes par is clearly playing with people who have no idea how to play a blaster.
Before this upcoming change to blasters, blasters were awesome in potential. The one weakness is a lack of mez protection. That is easily overcome by playing smart - and really - blasters are not totally mezzed because we can still attack with tier 1 and 2 attacks. If you've played this game enough, look at some players builds and you ask yourself, how does this player do all that with that build? A blaster with just SOs can still play very well and with the right person behind that blaster, if you didn't look at the info, you'd never know whether they had IOs or not. A good player with a solid IO build is seriously going to outshine more than a few scrappers and brutes. Granted, not every blaster is the same, nor is every player. However, with dominators, I'm currently of the opinion that I feel sorry for all of them - but I base this on my own experience with my own dom. Elec/elec. Horribly poor pets -squishy, with a long recharge and weak damage. I haven't given up on the AT - but I have given up on those powersets used together. However, it could be that my play style just doesn't mesh with the strengths of elec/elec. That doesn't mean I think they should change anything. It just means the powersets aren't for me. |
In contrast, Dominators have two powersets that mesh very well - a control set for keeping enemies from hurting them and an attack set to deal damage. While a Dom can't match a Blaster for damage, it can keep pace well enough. Nobody is going to be asking why they brought a Dominator along on the team, he will do enough damage to justify his place and his controls can easily reduce the incoming damage more than any Tanker ever could. When he reaches permadom, he is actually more mez resistant than many melee AT's since Domination also provides protection from fear and confuse.
I don't necessarily think my experiences are the same as everyone else's, mostly because my two blasters were Psi/Dev and DP/Mental, neither of which are really a solid combination. But while Dom's are squishy, I always knew it was my fault when I got defeated, because I used my controls wrong or accidentally pulled too many or didn't lock down a key enemy. On my Blaster, leveling through the debt was a way of life, even if you played right sometimes the RNG just took a dump on you and your key powers missed or some lieutenant with a mez got you before you got him. I'm not sure where the Blaster's "potential" you speak of is, but I've never seen it.
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I love my elec/elec dom. You have to play to it's strengths (which isn't damage). I have sapped many GM's and AV's endurance bars completely dry, only to watch them stand around and pant helplessly as my "squishy" pets and I slowly beat them to death. I have even sapped Marauder of his endurance bar completely and watched the entire league beat him senseless because he simply could not attack or NOVA FIST! anymore.
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Originally Posted by Ukaserex
However, with dominators, I'm currently of the opinion that I feel sorry for all of them - but I base this on my own experience with my own dom. Elec/elec. Horribly poor pets -squishy, with a long recharge and weak damage. I haven't given up on the AT - but I have given up on those powersets used together. However, it could be that my play style just doesn't mesh with the strengths of elec/elec. That doesn't mean I think they should change anything. It just means the powersets aren't for me.
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There is a vast performance and power difference between a fully decked out with IO dominator and one who is not. The difference between a fully decked out Dominator with IOs and one who uses SOs or generic IOs, is like a difference between two different ATs.
Why do you I state this? I have read suggestions by other posters about nerfing Seeds of Confusion for Plant Doms, or nerfing this or that for whatever Dom. STOP ! STOP it !
There is not one single type of Dom I will play without IOs now. Even at mid levels or as early as I can, I put them in. They do matter that much to the performance potential.
I read that this power is too strong or it needs to be recharged a bit more...
Are you, whoever you are, taking into consideration the performance level of an IO'd Dom?
I should also mention a fully incarnated Dominator playing at an effective level of 50 or higher is also a big difference between it and a non incarnated but IO'd Domi.
A fully incarnated AND IO'd Dom is as different as night and day.
Stop calling for nerfs on any plant Dom or any other set. IOs and incarnates is the magic, the power, the essence of all super performing Dominators.
I played this game since 2005, and I tried Doms and just gave up on them many times. IOs made me fall in love with Dominators so much that I replaced my number one AT, the controller, with Dominators. Perma Domination and the rest of juicy and advantageous bonuses IOs can give your character was just what I needed to love them and love their performance.
I don't have the chance to write much lately. I have been very busy with work and real life. The few moments I get for the game, I devote to playing. But Devs, please, if you have been persuaded to nerf anything in any set or powers for Dominators, take into consideration that IOs and incarnates is the reason why Doms are what they are today for the majority of us who love Dominators.
I can nerf my Doms to the point I will not touch them if I just strip them all of the IOs they have. That will nerf it to the ground for any of them. It will give me a whole new AT I will play only if I was court ordered by a judge as punitive action.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.