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Which is why I'd like to have a respec when this all goes live, even if the powers aren't being fundamentally changed.
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Originally Posted by NightSable
The challenge will be remaking builds that now incorporate the to hit bonuses needed and the snipe when we used to skip it. End management seems to be handled by tier 4 secondary changes, but until I see the powers, not so sure. Snipes use a lot of endurance, so I could see potential issues there on fast recharge builds.
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Yeah, I've always felt like the Blaster could use a "Tier 9" power at a lower tier... and keep the true Tier 9 as Nukes.
Anyway... I want to see if there are further plans for some specific powersets.
I know that Ice Blast was mentioned (and I think any set that doesn't have a snipe).
However, I am extremely curious about Electric Blast, because... well, no one else (other than a few of us diehard fans of it) ever mentions Electric except when they want to say that it sucks. 
Of course, it doesn't suck, but it could possibly use a bit of propping up.
However, the changes being made may somewhat put Electric Blast further behind, if nothing else is done to it, because it doesn't have the 3rd Blast that other sets are gaining extended range on. Not that this is a huge difference maker (and perhaps Voltaic Sentinel simply already having range is seen as the balancing factor).
Still... Since other sets may be getting some special attention, I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up the notion that, perhaps, Electric Blast could use a little attention of its own.
(That and I'm still trying to wrap my head around needing Lightning Clap for the new survivability gains...)
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
We will get a Respec there's no doubt about that. There's only a small percentage of Blasters, Corrs, Doms and Defenders who actually take their Snipe...and even then they probably use it as Set Mules lol.
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Once again, I think Rejolt for the transcription.|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
We will get a Respec there's no doubt about that. There's only a small percentage of Blasters, Corrs, Doms and Defenders who actually take their Snipe...and even then they probably use it as Set Mules lol.
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2:14: No respec planned, powers work as is - name changed. Considering regen/recovery can be slotted... eh.
I'd be more comfortable if that "not planned" was changed to "obviously required."
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Yeah, that's not a perfect translation of what Zwill was saying there.|
Originally Posted by Demon_Shell
Once again, I think Rejolt for the transcription.
2:14: No respec planned, powers work as is - name changed. Considering regen/recovery can be slotted... eh. I'd be more comfortable if that "not planned" was changed to "obviously required." |
He simply said that it hadn't been decided yet... I'm pretty sure, after a pause, he seemed to think that these changes made sense to include one. And then he made it clear that there was no decision to include one, but that could certainly change.
That's how I recall it, anyway.
I'd be very surprised if there were not freespecs with these changes, hehe. I'm certainly not worrying about there not being any (and not just because I have a ton of freespecs still anyway).
Basically, as far as I understood, there just was no decisive plan or information on a freespec this issue. That doesn't mean that there won't be, when the time comes.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Actually Zwill said that we might get a Respec since there's going to be major changes in some sets. He did say don't hold him to it but getting a free Respec does sound reasonable considering the changes. It's truly up to the Big Wigs so I wouldn't shoot down the possibility of getting one so quickly.
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Originally Posted by Demon_Shell
Once again, I think Rejolt for the transcription.
2:14: No respec planned, powers work as is - name changed. Considering regen/recovery can be slotted... eh. I'd be more comfortable if that "not planned" was changed to "obviously required." |
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For blasters that used to try to build for extra survivability in the first place, the challenge may not be all that bad. Looking at my current (Energy/Energy) build, I take the fighting pool for tough and weave: that's three powers. I'm thinking about dropping them and replacing with maneuvers and tactics. I lose some defense and some resistance, but I'm being handed Energize. Plus I have a high recharge build. Plus I already take Power Boost. That means I should be able to cycle BU/Aim/PB and have perma insta-snipe, plus get Energize, plus I now have an extra power choice.|
Originally Posted by NightSable
The challenge will be remaking builds that now incorporate the to hit bonuses needed and the snipe when we used to skip it. End management seems to be handled by tier 4 secondary changes, but until I see the powers, not so sure. Snipes use a lot of endurance, so I could see potential issues there on fast recharge builds.
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In a leveling build I would probably not bother initially with tactics and just rely on BU and Aim. Slotted with SOs it shouldn't be too difficult to reduce Sniper Blast's cycle time to under 10 seconds, meaning you can get two shots off during one BU window. So the attack chain might go BU->snipe->other stuff-> snipe->other stuff->Aim->snipe->other stuff->snipe->other stuff. Even though BU and Aim are not collectively up all the time, you could actually buff every use of sniper blast as it became available if you simply waited until snipe was available or about to become available before using BU or Aim. The actual "penalty" for not being able to buff snipe "all the time" might actually be almost non-existent until you get to builds with very fast cycling snipes.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Wouldn't that be against some form of Code/Law or something?
Blasters are supposed to have lower Leadership Values...wouldn't it be easier on Arbiter Hawk to lower the To Hit percentage requirement instead of changing the values of Leadership on Blasters? If he did change it wouldn't that make the other ATs angry? |
Lower it ? Make it 0. Blasters are supposed to be the ranged damage specialists.
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This is my thinking as well. I already cycle buildup and aim on my high-recharge fire^3, and one of the two are running far more often than not.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In a leveling build I would probably not bother initially with tactics and just rely on BU and Aim. Slotted with SOs it shouldn't be too difficult to reduce Sniper Blast's cycle time to under 10 seconds, meaning you can get two shots off during one BU window. So the attack chain might go BU->snipe->other stuff-> snipe->other stuff->Aim->snipe->other stuff->snipe->other stuff. Even though BU and Aim are not collectively up all the time, you could actually buff every use of sniper blast as it became available if you simply waited until snipe was available or about to become available before using BU or Aim. The actual "penalty" for not being able to buff snipe "all the time" might actually be almost non-existent until you get to builds with very fast cycling snipes.
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The Bacon Compels You.
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That sounds great.... but it also sounds like blasters with no snipes are in a HUGE disadvantage....|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
For blasters that used to try to build for extra survivability in the first place, the challenge may not be all that bad. Looking at my current (Energy/Energy) build, I take the fighting pool for tough and weave: that's three powers. I'm thinking about dropping them and replacing with maneuvers and tactics. I lose some defense and some resistance, but I'm being handed Energize. Plus I have a high recharge build. Plus I already take Power Boost. That means I should be able to cycle BU/Aim/PB and have perma insta-snipe, plus get Energize, plus I now have an extra power choice.
In a leveling build I would probably not bother initially with tactics and just rely on BU and Aim. Slotted with SOs it shouldn't be too difficult to reduce Sniper Blast's cycle time to under 10 seconds, meaning you can get two shots off during one BU window. So the attack chain might go BU->snipe->other stuff-> snipe->other stuff->Aim->snipe->other stuff->snipe->other stuff. Even though BU and Aim are not collectively up all the time, you could actually buff every use of sniper blast as it became available if you simply waited until snipe was available or about to become available before using BU or Aim. The actual "penalty" for not being able to buff snipe "all the time" might actually be almost non-existent until you get to builds with very fast cycling snipes. |
I guess non-snipe sets can have one fast animation attack designated to get snipe-like bonus damage if you have that tohit buff level.
It just crossed my mind though... are they doing this also for dominator snipes? Their snipes already are different with higher recharge and no interrupt...
Hmm, I think all the non-snipe sets have a 40-foot blast that will still get boosted. Probably not enough, comparatively speaking, but at least it's something.
The Bacon Compels You.
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If the primaries with no sets were left unchanged, yes. But Arbiter Hawk stated in the stream that those three primaries were being examined separately, to improve them independent of the sniper blast changes.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
That sounds great.... but it also sounds like blasters with no snipes are in a HUGE disadvantage....
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| It just crossed my mind though... are they doing this also for dominator snipes? |
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There is a big part of the problem. If we are talking about fixing blasters on the way up this change to snipes is going to do next to nothing. The availability on aim and build up is just to dam low and you need powers that will actually be available.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
For blasters that used to try to build for extra survivability in the first place, the challenge may not be all that bad. Looking at my current (Energy/Energy) build, I take the fighting pool for tough and weave: that's three powers. I'm thinking about dropping them and replacing with maneuvers and tactics. I lose some defense and some resistance, but I'm being handed Energize. Plus I have a high recharge build. Plus I already take Power Boost. That means I should be able to cycle BU/Aim/PB and have perma insta-snipe, plus get Energize, plus I now have an extra power choice.
In a leveling build I would probably not bother initially with tactics and just rely on BU and Aim. Slotted with SOs it shouldn't be too difficult to reduce Sniper Blast's cycle time to under 10 seconds, meaning you can get two shots off during one BU window. So the attack chain might go BU->snipe->other stuff-> snipe->other stuff->Aim->snipe->other stuff->snipe->other stuff. Even though BU and Aim are not collectively up all the time, you could actually buff every use of sniper blast as it became available if you simply waited until snipe was available or about to become available before using BU or Aim. The actual "penalty" for not being able to buff snipe "all the time" might actually be almost non-existent until you get to builds with very fast cycling snipes. |
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The boost is just range. That is nothing compared to the Buidlup/Aim dance Arcanaville just mentioned above, not to mention the insanity that an AR/Devices can pull with over-slotted targeting drone (remember, AR snipe does bonus damage if Targeting Drone is running, that will be on top of the snipe cast time being cut down)|
Originally Posted by JohnnyKilowatt
Hmm, I think all the non-snipe sets have a 40-foot blast that will still get boosted. Probably not enough, comparatively speaking, but at least it's something
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So yea... Sonics and DR were already low in damage comparatively.... Not sure I recall how Ice was doing balance wise but it also will be left behind a bit.
Hawk did say they are looking at those sets though, I guess it's wait and see.
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Refresh my memory... LRM?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Supposedly all sniper attacks that aren't LRM.
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The sniper-ranged AoE attack that shows up in Munitions Mastery.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
Refresh my memory... LRM?
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Ugh, I know but I wanted to start with baby steps. I personally think that Blasters should have it activate at 0% as well and the rest of the AT's should be at 15%.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Lower it ? Make it 0. Blasters are supposed to be the ranged damage specialists.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
It just crossed my mind though... are they doing this also for dominator snipes? Their snipes already are different with higher recharge and no interrupt...
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...I hope that I didn't leave one out again *_*;.
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Long Range Missile. It's what Destroyer Rocket Girls, some 5th Column members, and the Mercs Commando at 32 use. You know, that big grey-silver ugly looking bazooka.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
Refresh my memory... LRM?
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Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
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Just crossed my mind... this would include Scrapper/Stalker Patron snipes...?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The sniper-ranged AoE attack that shows up in Munitions Mastery.
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Dominators potentially have the most to gain by this change, but they have the least ability to trigger it on their own. In teamed situations with ally tohit buffs in play, it'll be more available but reliability will be an issue. Defenders with their higher tohit modifiers have a better chance of genuinely leveraging the buff to a better extent than Blasters, which would suggest Blasters still need a little something extra to give them more distinct benefit.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Yes, the snipe change will affect Scrappers, Stalkers, Dominators, Blasters, Defenders and Corruptors
...I hope that I didn't leave one out again *_*;. |
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Yes, and its going to open a discussion on those powers. Those snipes are not as good as blaster or other snipes, but perhaps more critically it seems some use the melee damage table and others use the ranged damage table. If all of them used the ranged damage table, I might be more ok with that. But the ones that use the melee damage table were already cheating before: to give them insta-firing would in my opinion be bordering on amplifying an exploit.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Just crossed my mind... this would include Scrapper/Stalker Patron snipes...?
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And before anyone notes this: I'm fully aware of the cast time differences. My concern stands.
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To be fair, all ancillary ranged attacks for melee ATs always used melee tables, and not by accident. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Yes, and its going to open a discussion on those powers. Those snipes are not as good as blaster or other snipes, but perhaps more critically it seems some use the melee damage table and others use the ranged damage table. If all of them used the ranged damage table, I might be more ok with that. But the ones that use the melee damage table were already cheating before: to give them insta-firing would in my opinion be bordering on amplifying an exploit.
And before anyone notes this: I'm fully aware of the cast time differences. My concern stands. |
I recall discussion about snipes at the time they got created for stalkers and it being decided they would not ever have full critical due to this... I never noticed that some of them retained the ranged modifiers, though. I would had logged that as a bug under the original design rule. Not sure now with this.
They do have 2x the recharge of a regular attack, all epic/ancillary powers do.
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This is an issue with obsessing over fixed attack chains, not with the game.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Oh hell why don't we see what your back of the envelope calculation actually looks like.
On SOs hasten is down 50 seconds out of 170 And even with hasten up aim and buildup are completely unavailable 1/3rd the time. Yep being able to run my attack chain 2/3rds the time sounds great. Sorry to interrupt your evangelizing. |
Thats one of the reasons I always advocate priority based attack queues over chains, but it's something apparently only Arcanaville ever agreed with (in some posts, she still outlines chains constantly.)
Anyways, there are insane number of things that can force you to alter an attack chain already, including the downtime of hasten or being affected by a recharge debuff or hit by allies recharge buffs.
Attack chain consistency has never been rock solid and this snipe change does not really do much more than add a bit more ripples into that pond.
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Not really, usually for blasters its best to use aim and build up at the same time before you engage in combat. |
Originally Posted by Starsman
This is an issue with obsessing over fixed attack chains, not with the game.
Thats one of the reasons I always advocate priority based attack queues over chains, but it's something apparently only Arcanaville ever agreed with (in some posts, she still outlines chains constantly.) Anyways, there are insane number of things that can force you to alter an attack chain already, including the downtime of hasten or being affected by a recharge debuff or hit by allies recharge buffs. Attack chain consistency has never been rock solid and this snipe change does not really do much more than add a bit more ripples into that pond. |
There are a few reasons for this.
1. If you are taking aoe attacks which deal more damage to a spawn than anything else, this maximizes their damage.
2. Even if you are concentrating on single target the lethality of a spawn is going to be proportional to the square of its size (you have to endure X avg damage* (no mobs in a spawn)*(#mobs in a spawn/time to kill them)). If you can remove as few as 1 with great haste it vastly increases the chances you survive the battle.
3. Once you are in battle each time you are firing aim or build up it adds to the amount of time you have to survive in battle. It's time you aren't doing damage.
4. With this new system you will need another damage power that you didn't before so you can actually do something while the snipe is unavailable.
Devices will be to "to hit" what SR is to the softcap for defense for scrappers. Some sets have it easier to maximize one aspect of the game, but may be weaker in other areas. Everyone knows this and has been living it as long as they played the game. The good news is that all (except MM which was working perfectly) sets got some love, but clearly this was designed to balance devices. By the way, still no build up in devices, so it won't be the best secondary necessarily. If you have build up, when you use your snipe, you always click build up and aim anyway, so....., for the most part, it really won't be a huge deal.
The challenge will be remaking builds that now incorporate the to hit bonuses needed and the snipe when we used to skip it. End management seems to be handled by tier 4 secondary changes, but until I see the powers, not so sure. Snipes use a lot of endurance, so I could see potential issues there on fast recharge builds.
Anyway, changes are good step in right direction. The "I WIN" power set comes out in issue 35, so just keep waiting for it if not happy about these changes.