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In a leveling build, I do not think Build Up will be be helping the snipe until very late in the process.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In a leveling build I would probably not bother initially with tactics and just rely on BU and Aim.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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There is a pretty good chance I wont be taking the snipe. I am not a "Concept" person, and If I were to be the concept would be "Kicks rear and doesn't bother taking names". It's looking like I have to give up far too much in survivability to get this extra damage. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Thought:
You could just not take the snipe. Every power comes with a compromising cost. That you can say "Oh, I can take this control power or OH! I can take this AoE or OOOH!! I can take this snipe!!" is a good thing. But if you're retrofitting powers into builds, a reexamining of all powers taken is inevitable. If you have a set with a crashless nuke, it's quite possible to skip a cone or AoE and just rely more heavily on the nuke even if you end up with less overall AoE DPS...or if you've got a crashing nuke, skip that. My builds, thankfully, take powers completely depending on concept and now that I think about it, my Energy/Fire won't be taking the snipe because it doesn't fit his concept (and the power looks puny and weak anyway). He does have Nova and a couple of my other ranged characters picked up their crashing nuke as well as slot and use it. Maybe you should start fitting in crashing nukes into your build as well in anticipation for new changes? Then you won't have to 'compromise' later? |
Taking Blasters in the direction of sacrificing survivability for a small damage boost is exactly the opposite of what I was hoping for in the changes. This does confirm my thought that the snipe changes weren't for blasters but really aimed at corruptors and defenders who do very very well with them. The change will also be really welcomed by the people who like to play blasters because they are always on the edge, I can hardly begrudge them an improvement to the game.
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Both. If you read the analysis in the link, it assumes BU and Aim will be firing close to as often as possible, but staggered with the recharge of snipe, after the initial alpha. Its only a proof of concept, but it demonstrates conclusively that the coverage percentage of the snipes is not dependent on the simplified uptime calculations of BU and Aim.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
This would be, basically, saving the Build Ups and Aims for only before the Snipe? In other words, would this mean not using BU or Aim in front of anything else, or just simply based around using BU and Aim as soon as they are recharged?
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| As I mentioned elsewhere (why did so many people create separate threads again? Don't answer that), I have been one who tended towards using BU and Aim together for a bigger burst. So, these changes will certainly shift my approach. |
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Why would you say that? Both the snipe and BU are generally available relatively early. In most of my blaster builds I took BU (when it existed) generally as soon as it became available or soon afterward, specifically for its burst damage benefit. I'm not sure why that combination wouldn't be used relatively early.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
In a leveling build, I do not think Build Up will be be helping the snipe until very late in the process.
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Because I wouldn't want to put that many slots into Build Up early on SOs and Build Up is only 15% to hit.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Why would you say that?
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That said, with IOs that I normally slot, I would make it work. 1 Kismet and level 25 Adj Targ Rech and Adj Targ To-hit/Rech is just enough.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Originally Posted by Garent
Jumping back to this point, I've thought about it, and power redirect is possible in relation to proximity if you do it a REALLY specific way.
-use power 1 on target -power 1 does its effect on the target, including placing the temp power 'power 2' on target -power 2 is a pbaoe that affects players in the area. It does nothing in and of itself -power 3 redirects to power 4 if you have power 2 on you. In other words, if you use power 1 on the target beforehand, if the target is close enough to you, then power 3 redirects to a special animation or whatever. I have no idea what type of balance issue we could address with that, but it's there. I don't know of any powers that I think would benefit from that type of synergy. Throwing bad ideas at a wall and seeing if anything sticks... Inferno is changed to a self buff. It reverts to its usual nuke version if you have blazing aura (it's being renamed cauterizing aura, isn't it?) up and it is hitting an enemy. If you are near an enemy that has been hit by smoke grenade, then time bomb and trip mine have their interrupts removed. If you use it immediately after hitting an enemy with shocking grasp, power sink instead targets only that enemy but is much more powerful. If you use it immediately after hitting an enemy with midnight grasp, dark consumption only hits that target but does significant damage. The smoke grenade one has promise. The other ones missed the dart board by a large margin I think. |
Interesting ideas. Personally, I've been contemplating the possibility that Sonic Blast, Dual Pistols, Ice Blast and soon to be Water Blast might be in for a little addition since none of them have snipes.
Like for Sonic Blast:
Shockwave: When clicked, a special power procs before the effect called 'Resonance' which basically creates an AoE check around each foe. If the caster isn't caught by that check, Resonance summons a pet and debuffs the foe's resistance before applying the damage (and since it's a pet, the same -res for all ATs). If you are caught by the Resonance check, the caster receives a buff (+res or mez resistance).
For Ice Blast:
Thinking Bitter Ice Blast and Freeze Ray: Each power has an 'Ice Block' type mode connected to them (and I guess other Block of Ice type powers can be tagged to trigger the same mode). When either Bitter Ice Blast or Freeze Ray (and no other powers but them) hit a target that has the 'Ice Block' tag *and* are held, it calls a new power that can do extra cold damage and/or debuff the target Benumb style.
I'd probably think of something regarding the extra ammo damage with the Dual Pistol power Executioner's Shot but haven't thought of anything thematic.
My biggest problem with inter-power synergy is that I consider all powers being equally skippable/important to be a big deal. My biggest problem with masterminds during the CoV beta was that the multiplicitive power of the summons and the upgrades meant that they were all must-have powers.
So your suggestion for a buff to shockwave is something I could get behind potentially, but I wouldn't like most of the examples I gave, since those are already powers that are useful and don't need more incentive. As for dual pistols, I think the most important thing it needs is encouragement to use specific ammo powers based on the situation.
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Depending on the blaster, I sometimes slot more or less into BU and Aim, but if I was trying to leverage my sniper blast, which delivers almost twice the DPA of most of my other attacks, I would be inclined to focus there a lot more.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Because I wouldn't want to put that many slots into Build Up early on SOs and Build Up is only 15% to hit.
That said, with IOs that I normally slot, I would make it work. 1 Kismet and level 25 Adj Targ Rech and Adj Targ To-hit/Rech is just enough. |
Particularly during leveling when slots and powers are constrained, the BU/Snipe Aim/Snipe combos look increasingly attractive. You're not going to be running a marathon build in the 20s anyway, so burst is the way to go.
If you can't or won't buy Kismet, then yes BU is going to be less of a factor if you don't have tactics. But if you're going to do it at all, I don't think its unlikely you'll have tactics by 30 or so, which is still less than halfway through leveling on a time basis.
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Hrm... I wonder if they could make Defiance buffs work to mitigate or even outright replace the To-Hit requirement for Blasters...
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Quite right. In fact, I was thinking along those lines after I posted that and walked away for a bit. There's not really any particular constant with approaches (for my playstyles, anyway), rather different approaches to different scenarios.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If you are doing that with AoEs, your play may be less focused on single target output anyway, and any improvements in single target attacks of any kind would be highly diluted. I'd stick to it if that's your thing. But the option will be there to start with the snipe, and then to follow up with the snipe in later combat at very high single target damage output.
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Sure, my main approach for general content may be sapping, doubling up BU and Aim and AoEing, but... in a longer fight, against EBs and higher, that would absolutely lend toward leveraging the snipes this way.
One of my favorite things about the E3 Blaster is the versatility and different approaches I feel comfortable taking based on scenario and/or whim. If nothing else, and with no other changes, this will at least add another option to my bag of tricks.
We shall see...
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Quote:
They could, and I'm hoping they do.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Hrm... I wonder if they could make Defiance buffs work to mitigate or even outright replace the To-Hit requirement for Blasters...
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zero defiance = long animation snipe with bonus damage/effect
greater than zero defiance = short animation snipe with standard damage
It's basically the stalker treatment. If you're in combat, you get the fast version, if you're using it to start a combat, you get the slow, powerful version.
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Erm... I didn't think there was a damage difference? It'd be kind of odd if there were, all things considered.
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Originally Posted by Garent
They could, and I'm hoping they do.
zero defiance = long animation snipe with bonus damage/effect greater than zero defiance = short animation snipe with standard damage It's basically the stalker treatment. If you're in combat, you get the fast version, if you're using it to start a combat, you get the slow, powerful version. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Depends on your stacks of assassin's focus.
The stealthed version of Assassin Strike hits significantly harder than the unstealthed version, even if the latter crits.
Unless Tenzhi was referring to snipes, in which case there is no difference under the current plan, the difference is the idea Garent was proposing.
No, I meant on the Snipes. Since To-Hit is a factor (and I expect it would remain so, even if Defiance were allowed to substitute for it), it would be odd if there were a difference in damage at all.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
You think so? It just makes sense to me to allow the longer animation time to be preferable under certain circumstances. Otherwise there's little point in making circumstantial versions.
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Mez = end of hectic playstyle.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Blaster Mez Avoidance = NPC logic changes to halt chain mezzing, Defiance, and Break Free
I'm pretty sure that's all we're gonna get. From listening to the talk today, I get the impression the devs have a certain hectic playstyle in mind for blasters. I don't see melee mez resists as being part of that plan. |
Logic changes to halt chain mezzing might be helpful, of course not having programmed so much stinking mez into the game would have solved that problem before it appeared.
I'm not talking about melee level of mez protection. I am talking about mez avoidance in the first place. That =/= break frees because that means eating one EVERY spawn in a high mez environment. The Alpha mez on top of Alpha damage is the problem. The blaster needs enough time to unload their AoEs before being mezzed. That would allow offense to be their defense. If you can AoE a spawn you can take out most of the minions. At that point sure using a break free if there are too many survivors is a viable option or if you eliminated enough of the spawn to get to a less deadly level, defiance might be enough to finish.
I would prefer it be done right this time instead of being back here in another 11 issues wondering why blasters still have the same unaddressed issues.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Yeah, the problem is when you're trying to use that "circumstantial" version and you have to tell people "Dudes, stop harshin' my burst with your To-Hit buffs!"
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Originally Posted by Garent
You think so? It just makes sense to me to allow the longer animation time to be preferable under certain circumstances. Otherwise there's little point in making circumstantial versions.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Ah, I should be more clear. I meant the defiance should replace the to-hit, instead of being in addition to it. Sorry.
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You can Hit 23.4% with 3, even level Hit Buff SOs. The problem of course will be finding enough slots. I'm not sure that it will be worth it with tier 3 powers getting their range increased. Without reduced animation times on quite a few powers our issue will still be having too many attacks and not enough utility.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
In a leveling build, I do not think Build Up will be be helping the snipe until very late in the process.
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Couple questions:
1. 22% to-hit-bonuses, or +22% to-hit? Which is to say: Do -tohit penalties count against the snipe bonus effect? Because if they do, they will make this a lot more complicated.
2. Maybe a solution of sorts could be to give blasters a couple-few percent inherent +to-hit, to make up for the lower tactics number, so that slotted tactics + kismet = 22%, or thereabouts.
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I would rather it be an additional way of achieving the effect. I personally like the idea of being able to achieve a constant improved snipe with Targeting Drone without having to lead-in with other powers. Of course, they could always have Targeting Drone constantly reapply a Defiance buff, I suppose. |
Originally Posted by Garent
Ah, I should be more clear. I meant the defiance should replace the to-hit, instead of being in addition to it. Sorry.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
My understanding is that its player tohit of net +22% or higher. So debuffs count. Perhaps they should not count conceptually. Something to keep in mind when this becomes available for testing.
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Originally Posted by seebs
1. 22% to-hit-bonuses, or +22% to-hit? Which is to say: Do -tohit penalties count against the snipe bonus effect? Because if they do, they will make this a lot more complicated.
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Ugh. The last thing I need is to stop accepting Mystic Fortune because the Fool has -Tohit. Or worry about the crash on Mutation. Not to mention the plethora of ToHit debuffs carried around by CoT and what not.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
My understanding is that its player tohit of net +22% or higher. So debuffs count. Perhaps they should not count conceptually. Something to keep in mind when this becomes available for testing.
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The more I think about it, the more I feel that basing it off of ToHit is a bad idea. People are going to try so hard to get perma 22% ToHit, that it's going to be like the old Domination's damage buff: the players are going to treat any situation where their ToHit is reduced as a nerf, and the constant improved snipe as the standard level of performance.
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Redside: Lorenzo Mondavi
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Got a Mids suggestion? Want to report a Mids bug?
-use power 1 on target
-power 1 does its effect on the target, including placing the temp power 'power 2' on target
-power 2 is a pbaoe that affects players in the area. It does nothing in and of itself
-power 3 redirects to power 4 if you have power 2 on you.
In other words, if you use power 1 on the target beforehand, if the target is close enough to you, then power 3 redirects to a special animation or whatever. I have no idea what type of balance issue we could address with that, but it's there. I don't know of any powers that I think would benefit from that type of synergy.
Throwing bad ideas at a wall and seeing if anything sticks...
Inferno is changed to a self buff. It reverts to its usual nuke version if you have blazing aura (it's being renamed cauterizing aura, isn't it?) up and it is hitting an enemy.
If you are near an enemy that has been hit by smoke grenade, then time bomb and trip mine have their interrupts removed.
If you use it immediately after hitting an enemy with shocking grasp, power sink instead targets only that enemy but is much more powerful.
If you use it immediately after hitting an enemy with midnight grasp, dark consumption only hits that target but does significant damage.
The smoke grenade one has promise. The other ones missed the dart board by a large margin I think.