The SSOOC System: Due for a comeback?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-06-16 16:55 in Suggestions and Ideas
yeah, it's called Champions Online.
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Personally, in about a dozen MMOs, including this one, I have literally never seen a skill/crafting system that was remotely as interesting in practice as it was on paper.
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Yes. Every similar system is the exact same, and that sameness always spreads to the rest of the game. We are Legion, we are many.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
yeah, it's called Champions Online.
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Don't like snotty responses, don't make snotty comments.
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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Hey, I've got nothing against getting snark for snark.|
Originally Posted by Kirsten
Yes. Every similar system is the exact same, and that sameness always spreads to the rest of the game. We are Legion, we are many.
Don't like snotty responses, don't make snotty comments. |
As you apparently do, the answer is 'NO'.
It was scrapped for being not fun (unsurprising, as it was Jack's baby) and replaced by the IO system.
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My City Was Gone
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And this one, on paper, doesn't seem interesting at all.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Personally, in about a dozen MMOs, including this one, I have literally never seen a skill/crafting system that was remotely as interesting in practice as it was on paper.
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Um, not to be a dark cloud over this ray of sunshine but how can we have a comeback for something that never was?
I'm not saying we don't need and never will need something like this. But considering that this was an idea that was abandoned years ago as 'not fun', I can't quite understand the recent resurgence of interest.
It's a bit like wishing for the good old days of the Dewey presidency.
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Except in this case, an alternate universe exists where Dewey won the election and his wonderful, super fun ideas rule the land!|
Originally Posted by jwbullfrog
It's a bit like wishing for the good old days of the Dewey presidency.
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=P
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Except in this case, an alternate universe exists where Dewey won the election and his wonderful, super fun ideas rule the land!
=P |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Thank you toast for the photo. It might help the younger members of the reading audience.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewey_Defeats_Truman
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
Hey, we can't assume Dewey would have been such a bad president...Jobs and Wozniak got laughed out of Hewlett-Packard for their cockamamie "Personal Computer" lunacy. Look at them now.
In addition, I had no intent to be as rude as I sounded to Nethergoat. Strawman Fallacies really get in my craw.
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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True, he might have been a wonderful president but, since he wasn't, we'll never know. |
Originally Posted by Kirsten
Hey, we can't assume Dewey would have been such a bad president...Jobs and Wozniak got laughed out of Hewlett-Packard for their cockamamie "Personal Computer" lunacy. Look at them now.
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That, I think, was my point.
I could be wrong.
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In another reality, it might not have been...
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Originally Posted by jwbullfrog
True, he might have been a wonderful president but, since he wasn't, we'll never know.
That, I think, was my point. I could be wrong. |
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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... except it was his idea and it looks like he took a sort of version of it over there. |
Originally Posted by Kirsten
Yes. Every similar system is the exact same, and that sameness always spreads to the rest of the game. We are Legion, we are many.
Don't like snotty responses, don't make snotty comments. |
And, as mentioned, it can't make a comeback if it never existed. It was scrapped for Inventions. Personally, I'd rather not have them bring in yet another new system, go "oooh" and "ahhh" over it for an issue, maybe an issue and a half, and forget completely about it. It's the way this dev team is.
There are a number of ideas that were planned or sketched out, some even designed and developed, yet will never, ever see the light of day in City of Heroes because the developers have their own ideas and projects that they're planning, sketching out, designing and developing. Some things will be abandoned for various reasons, some things will see the light of day.
Something from a developer that has long been gone from the company is pretty much dead in the water.
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psssht, I'm a full contact guy.|
Originally Posted by Kirsten
In addition, I had no intent to be as rude as I sounded to Nethergoat.
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No need to worry about my delicate fee-fees.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
There are a number of ideas that were planned or sketched out, some even designed and developed, yet will never, ever see the light of day in City of Heroes because the developers have their own ideas and projects that they're planning, sketching out, designing and developing. Some things will be abandoned for various reasons, some things will see the light of day.
Something from a developer that has long been gone from the company is pretty much dead in the water. |
The Devs have told us that they'd rather work on new ideas that they have than old ideas someone had at one time in the distant past, even if the person that had the idea is still there.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
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And ESPECIALLY if the person that had it isn't here anymore.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Agreed.
The Devs have told us that they'd rather work on new ideas that they have than old ideas someone had at one time in the distant past, even if the person that had the idea is still there. |
Can you imagine the kind of acrimony they'd get into if Emmert saw a 'skills' system being put in here and decided that it looked sufficiently like "his" idea that he'd have some kind of claim on it?
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See, that's a stance I wish they'd get rid of. Some of those older ideas that didn't make it had merit, but couldn't be done at the time for whatever reason. And some of them that did make it could really use some additions. See: Mission Architect, Supergroup bases, the Shadow Shard as a whole.| The Devs have told us that they'd rather work on new ideas that they have than old ideas someone had at one time in the distant past, even if the person that had the idea is still there. |
This one to me sounds like it could be a good thing, IF (big if) done right. It'd add more depth to the game, rather than everything being 'go here, kill this' like it is now.
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Supergroup bases aren't a "We don't want to touch it," it's "The person who set it up coded it very oddly and didn't comment their code - if we look at it sideways, it breaks." And they're wary of starting from the ground up - not just because it's a fairly big system, but because of the risk of breaking existing bases. |
Originally Posted by Rebel_Scum
See, that's a stance I wish they'd get rid of. Some of those older ideas that didn't make it had merit, but couldn't be done at the time for whatever reason. And some of them that did make it could really use some additions. See: Mission Architect, Supergroup bases, the Shadow Shard as a whole.
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MA... I think they've mostly given up on. Honestly, I think it's ranking there with PVP in - paraphrasing Zwilliwishiwerealittlebarofsoap - basically being a very high maintenance system. IF they had the manpower, I'm sure they'd write scripts to deactivate/remove old exploits, and have someone reviewing submitted arcs (where you could test - because who cares if you get virtual badges - but publishing it live would require manual review.)
The stuff I *hate* seeing lost to this attitude are:
- Some of the epic ATs, or even epic AT ideas that could be just expanded into zones. (Avilians - dead, since we have wings, Coralax, Blood of the Black Stream, etc.)
- Cimerora. It's just... sort of there for ITFs. The incarnate bit feels odd there.
- The rocket launch sites that never got finished.
- All the little clues and hooks sitting around (some feed back into prior points... if you do, I think it's Steph Peeble's missions, you find things like a hollow skull (the Avilians) and "something they pulled up from the ocean" (... I forget the name, but it's basically a slave race for the Coralax.) Or, if you look in the water (fly up a bit) by the sunk tanker in Oakes, you'll see an Eye of Horus formed from the oil spill - that was a link to the Blood of the Black Stream.
Some of it can get really frustrating to see what "might have been" that they won't touch now because "we want our new people to work on their own new stuff!" Well, y'know what, make me a new people, give me what's in the lore bible or old notes, and let me see what I can do with the "old stuff."
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Also, they did indeed made an attempt to rebuild the base system from the ground up... and wound up with a system that was not qualitatively better than what was in place, so, they scrapped it. That was a lot of code-hours (and money) for nothing.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Supergroup bases aren't a "We don't want to touch it," it's "The person who set it up coded it very oddly and didn't comment their code - if we look at it sideways, it breaks." And they're wary of starting from the ground up - not just because it's a fairly big system, but because of the risk of breaking existing bases.
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So, the upshot is that CoH would have to as stupid-popular, and therefore, stupid-rich as WoW for the studio to throw more money on another attempt to re-do the base system.
And the current one is a house of coding cards ready to topple if you tried to do almost anything to it.
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I'd rather they take the time to finish the systems that have in place, instead of opening up dev work on another new system, which they'll eventually abandon.
There is tremendous amounts of work that needs to be done with pvp, AE, and powers customization that I thnk any sort of SSOOC system shouldn't even be a blip on their radar until 2032.
Just saying.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
paraphrasing Zwilliwishiwerealittlebarofsoap - |
Find your own.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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*Pokes Texas Justinthenickoftime with a schtik*
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Hey now, spelling his name incorrectly in interesting ways is my shtick.
Find your own. |
I've honestly seen a lot of forumites who could probably, given enough know-how and training, could really improve the game.
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
After doing much searching, I slowly learned of a skill system which was being planned by the now long-gone Jack Emmert (AKA Statesman). This system was, from what I understood, intended to allow for a more flexible playstyle, integrating new ways of completing objectives into the existing game. (Link to an article here, courtesy of Creole Ned.)
I looked at this and thought, Hmm...This seems rather neat. I'd actually want to use this. So I ask, is this feature-that-never-was due to return triumphantly?
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.