Can a melee build really solo an AV? Really?
By
Andferne,
Posted on: 2012-06-11 11:57 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Speaking from the stance of a MM player, GMs can also be soloed. I routinely solo the GMs on the Red side for Prestige. I do this without the aid of Inspirations. But I do use Lore pets and my Veteran powers - the fight goes much faster.|
Originally Posted by Xyzor
My DM/Regen solo'd just about every AV in the game, and if memory serves, even a GM in PI back before ED (can't remember if I killed it, or just fought it to a 20-minute draw - was like 7 years ago).
It's so much easier now (the AVs, that this, I haven't attempted a GM since I've been back). |
I think the next challenge for us is the AVs that spawn in RV. They spawn in sets of 3 after one faction takes down 5(?) pillboxes. I have come very close to to taking down 2 of the 3 a few times, but the damage output of the combined 3 AVs is massive. I do use everything I have in these fights - Insp, Accolades, Heavy, etc.
Just chiming in on all the above. I routinely solo the AV's in the 50's at +0/+1 on almost every AT I've got (I don't play tankers). This is all without Incarnate powers. My melee toons, even the once-and-future-kings like /Regen scrappers, do just fine. Really just a matter of sustained DPS and keeping enough END in your bar to make it work.
Don't let JB's jaded post fool you, Tankers can solo AVs, even without Lore pets.
My Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker with only the t3 Alpha slot has soloed quite a few AVs, with just the use of a couple of inspirations (small purple) to keep his melee defense at cap.
I didn't build him for typed defense, but went with Melee (which is not the common choice anymore) and then went for recharge. Granted, it took IOs (no Purples mind you), and Fire/ is considered the weakest Tanker Primary, and while not every AV is possible at the moment, it still is possible.
Quote:
Weakest in terms of survivng hard targets perhaps, but it is the strongest at dealing damage even more now that FE is a damage boost that bypasses cap limitations
|
Originally Posted by Tannim222
Don't let JB's jaded post fool you, Tankers can solo AVs, even without Lore pets.
My Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker with only the t3 Alpha slot has soloed quite a few AVs, with just the use of a couple of inspirations (small purple) to keep his melee defense at cap. I didn't build him for typed defense, but went with Melee (which is not the common choice anymore) and then went for recharge. Granted, it took IOs (no Purples mind you), and Fire/ is considered the weakest Tanker Primary, and while not every AV is possible at the moment, it still is possible. |
Quote:
Oh it's definitely doable. It's not even that difficult now that we have incarnate powers. If you're interested, my sig shows videos of my fire/sr scrapper soloing a bunch of AVs back before incarnate abilities came out, and using no inspirations or temp powers.
|
Originally Posted by Easily_Noobed
I'm serious. Saw the end of a conversation in game and I had to know if it was true.
I mean everyone knows an Ill/rad can, but a melee? Really? |
I have watched a dark melee/dark armor scrapper solo Archvillains before.....also watched a super strength/stone tank solo archvillains.
I dont mean just sit there either...i mean go up and defeat the archvillain solo.
It really depends on what they are fighting though....as those same players had issues with Dominatrix and with Hero 1 riktified........sooo....go figure.
I think melee solos them alot more then anyone else....but then again...most of the scrappers and Tanks and Brutes who post...always talk about playing at x8 +4 levels on everything.....so can they solo Archvillains....yep.....do they like to do so.....I am thinking no....they find more value in beating up lots of enemies and general farming then beating up an archvillain.
Quote:
Even before inventions themselves came out, the biggest hurdle for a well-built melee to solo an AV back in the day was often running out of endurance during the attempt. A couple of lucks and a bunch of blues and it was well within the reach of many melee characters prior to I9.
|
Originally Posted by firespray
Oh it's definitely doable. It's not even that difficult now that we have incarnate powers.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Werner showed that could happen. Just took him six hours against Nemesis.
|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Roll a DM/SR scrapper a with standard set IO's and no incarnate powers and you will see it is not that hard.
|
Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
Quote:
Actually, my plan was 3 pieces of the Superior ATO (whichever give the best recharge, including the proc) and 3 damage procs (Cloud Senses, Touch of Death, Hecatomb). |
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Interesting, Claws. So you must have five hecatomb including the proc in shadow punch, as well as total radial reactive, but what of the sixth slot? Tanker AT proc or damage proc of some sort?
|
It should average enough damage to slowly whittle an AV down. Fortunately, speed isn't particularly important in this instance.
And I'm going Spectral with the 75% DoT. Concept is VERY important with this character, and I will not compromise it, even if it means I can't achieve this particular goal.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I barely scratch high end builds, even now I'm rich and they're cheap, and _I_ soloed an AV. On a stalker. At level 41.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
Nemesis is a special case because of his phase shifting ability. Werner is also a special case because that fight would have driven any normal human being crazy.
|
Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Werner showed that could happen. Just took him six hours against Nemesis.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
There is no way to prove it didn't drive him crazy.... |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Nemesis is a special case because of his phase shifting ability. Werner is also a special case because that fight would have driven any normal human being crazy.
|
Or...
Maybe if you're already crazy....
Quote:
I have no doubt of that. I simply wasn't playing then. I took a long break from I6 to I12, so I didn't do much playing in the days of ED and no inventions.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Even before inventions themselves came out, the biggest hurdle for a well-built melee to solo an AV back in the day was often running out of endurance during the attempt. A couple of lucks and a bunch of blues and it was well within the reach of many melee characters prior to I9.
|
Quote:
Agreed. I tried soloing nemesis. I quit after about 45 minutes when it was clear I wasn't making any significant progress once he started phasing regularly.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Werner is also a special case because that fight would have driven any normal human being crazy.
|
This is a silly topic, of course melee chars can solo AVs and they have been doing it since before IOs were introduced. I soloed the entire Maria Jenkins arc with my DM/SR before IOs and it really wasn't so much hard as it was time consuming. Of course at that time DM/SR was one of the better melee scrappers for soloing AVs but others could do it as well, the big advantage of DM/SR was the heal from DM to augment SR.
On the flip side, life was much different then for SR, there was the absolute suck-fest that was the beginning of SR, then the god-like era of perma-elude, but with IOs it is even easier if you ask me..
Quote:
Really really. Welcome to City of Heroes.|
Originally Posted by Easily_Noobed
I'm serious. Saw the end of a conversation in game and I had to know if it was true.
I mean everyone knows an Ill/rad can, but a melee? Really? |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Just find an AV that isn't strong to your damage type and don't be a Tanker.
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Pfft, the only thing that would stop me once I get my dark/dark/soul Brute up and running is a forced bathroom break.
|
Originally Posted by firespray
Agreed. I tried soloing nemesis. I quit after about 45 minutes when it was clear I wasn't making any significant progress once he started phasing regularly.
|
Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
Quote:
They put out more damage than any class on some hits, please stop with the tanker silliness.
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Especially since Cimeroran or Warworks Lore pets probably put out more damage than the Tanker themselves.
. |
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
Johnny is right in that Tankers do need at least some more damage now that Brutes can come over blueside with their same Threat Level modifier of 4. I would state the biggest thing to improve tanking would be to always have the highest Threat Level modifier of any AT, as I keep hearing about tankers losing aggro to brutes who can survive just as well while pushing out even more damage, the Tanker AT does seem more and more redundant like the Blaster AT.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
They put out more damage than any class on some hits, please stop with the tanker silliness.
|
Of course, it's an overall problem with most of the Blueside ATs in general, as Redside showed they could learn from their mistakes (took long enough for Doms though). If I ever see a Tanker putting out numbers that get dangerously close to Brutes however, I will scream like a monkey and start flinging crap everywhere, but focus it on Johnny above all others.
Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
Quote:
A change like that doesn't make any sense.|
Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Johnny is right in that Tankers do need at least some more damage now that Brutes can come over blueside with their same Threat Level modifier of 4. I would state the biggest thing to improve tanking would be to always have the highest Threat Level modifier of any AT, as I keep hearing about tankers losing aggro to brutes who can survive just as well while pushing out even more damage, the Tanker AT does seem more and more redundant like the Blaster AT.
|
A Tanker should want to protect his team...and be the "best at doing so"...but an increase in threat is not the way to go about improving this.
An increase in a threat modifier just makes them the center of attention if they are teaming with Brutes who can tank...while that Brute could still perform the same exact task when a Tanker is not on the team. This would also "make" Brutes who can tank, not want to team with Tankers...because then they would easily lose all agro to Tanker...therefore reducing their damage output...in situations where a Brute could just as easily tank those 17 enemies.
I made a suggestion in the Tanker forums about increasing Tanker's survivability and their agro cap. This would make them the "best at protecting the team".
Therefore...while Tankers could still "lose agro" to "tanking Brutes"...they would be able to hold more agro than them and have better top end survivability. So in situations where two groups are pulled...the Tanker can still maintain control over all the agro...while the Brute could not.
Quote:
All that tells me is that brutes need the nerf bat, but that doesn't seem likely. It's been the same argument for years, and brutes are just the latest target.
|
Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Johnny is right in that Tankers do need at least some more damage now that Brutes can come over blueside with their same Threat Level modifier of 4. I would state the biggest thing to improve tanking would be to always have the highest Threat Level modifier of any AT, as I keep hearing about tankers losing aggro to brutes who can survive just as well while pushing out even more damage, the Tanker AT does seem more and more redundant like the Blaster AT.
Of course, it's an overall problem with most of the Blueside ATs in general, as Redside showed they could learn from their mistakes (took long enough for Doms though). If I ever see a Tanker putting out numbers that get dangerously close to Brutes however, I will scream like a monkey and start flinging crap everywhere, but focus it on Johnny above all others. |
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
Or be a tanker and solo 5 AV's at once. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Yes, in fact I'd say it's quite common and ordinary now with Incarnates.
Just find an AV that isn't strong to your damage type and don't be a Tanker. . |
http://www.wegame.com/watch/fire-ss-vs-battle-maiden/
Quote:
In I14 beta pohsyb posted a "challenge mission" that he claimed would beat any player. It turned out to be a small room full of nothing but Nemesis AVs, EBs, and Bosses. He apparently literally meant it would beat any player, not necessarily any character, by crushing their spirit.
|
Originally Posted by firespray
Agreed. I tried soloing nemesis. I quit after about 45 minutes when it was clear I wasn't making any significant progress once he started phasing regularly.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I saw the video of Werner's 6 hour fight. I might have been able to do the same, but I don't have that sort of patience.
|
Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Pfft, the only thing that would stop me once I get my dark/dark/soul Brute up and running is a forced bathroom break.
|
My DM/Regen solo'd just about every AV in the game, and if memory serves, even a GM in PI back before ED (can't remember if I killed it, or just fought it to a 20-minute draw - was like 7 years ago).
It's so much easier now (the AVs, that this, I haven't attempted a GM since I've been back).
- Xyzor, Lightning.Rod, Kagyx - Rubber Mulch / Wholesale Candy - Freedom Server