Offenders vs Defenders, what really makes the difference
there are some sets that more easily lend themselves to an offender build than others, but the line isn't so much sets, but actual builds.
I really don't see this divide much anymore but back in the day there was a real divde among defenders.
On one hand you had defenders taking only a couple attacks in their secondary and built their toons around team support. The same group complained how defenders couldn't solo.
On the other hand you had defenders investing in both their primary and secondary like say any of the melee types woulds, and would leverage their primaries in doing damage, this group didn't have any problems soloing( other than maybe lacking mez protection maybe)
there are some sets that more easily lend themselves to an offender build than others, but the line isn't so much sets, but actual builds.
I really don't see this divide much anymore but back in the day there was a real divde among defenders. On one hand you had defenders taking only a couple attacks in their secondary and built their toons around team support. The same group complained how defenders couldn't solo. On the other hand you had defenders investing in both their primary and secondary like say any of the melee types woulds, and would leverage their primaries in doing damage, this group didn't have any problems soloing( other than maybe lacking mez protection maybe) |
It basically means a Defender who does not neglect offense. Radiation and Kinetics are the classics for primaries that lend themselves well to it, but most primary sets aren't that busy that you can't send out some attacks as well.
The classic opposite is the Defender who has all 9 Empathy powers, the entire Leadership pool, and in some extreme cases, the Medicine pool to have another heal. And that one blast they had to take, but didn't want to "waste" any slots on. Healing Aura is, naturally, set to auto. And this isn't hyperbole, by the way, this was a classic Team Only Empath build back then.
If you want to see what Offenders can really do, you could contact the Repeat Offenders, they kind of live the dream here. Because one of the most powerful teams you can get in the game, is a team of Defenders who know how to run both primary powers and secondary powers properly. And that's RO in a nutshell.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Pretty much this, yeah. Offender is an old term, and kind of obsoleted in most cases these days.
It basically means a Defender who does not neglect offense. Radiation and Kinetics are the classics for primaries that lend themselves well to it, but most primary sets aren't that busy that you can't send out some attacks as well. The classic opposite is the Defender who has all 9 Empathy powers, the entire Leadership pool, and in some extreme cases, the Medicine pool to have another heal. And that one blast they had to take, but didn't want to "waste" any slots on. Healing Aura is, naturally, set to auto. And this isn't hyperbole, by the way, this was a classic Team Only Empath build back then. If you want to see what Offenders can really do, you could contact the Repeat Offenders, they kind of live the dream here. Because one of the most powerful teams you can get in the game, is a team of Defenders who know how to run both primary powers and secondary powers properly. And that's RO in a nutshell. |
Illusion/Storm, Earth/Rad, Fire/Kin, Mind/Sonic
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
If you want to see what Offenders can really do, you could contact the Repeat Offenders, they kind of live the dream here. Because one of the most powerful teams you can get in the game, is a team of Defenders who know how to run both primary powers and secondary powers properly. And that's RO in a nutshell.
|
Lukewarmdog posts the Repeat Offender schedule on the general discussion boards pretty much daily. RO now encompasses a lot of things beyond just offenders, there are supergroups for tanks, scrappers, and many other synergies (across Freedom, Virtue, and Justice). We do run "Retro RO" teams on thursday nights, which lately has been "Faithful Fans of Fallout" (Radiation Emission defenders, corruptors, and controllers with a focus on leveraging fallout and vengeance). Check out our forums at www.repeat-offenders.net!
*/end shameless plug*
For me, personally, "Offendering" is now more of a mindset of being more aggressive on a defender/corruptor/controller. It's about letting go of "I'm here to keep the team upright by healing and buffing everyone" and stepping into "I'm here to keep the team upright by killing stuff and doing my thing (which may depend on the buff/debuff set) and I ain't afraid of nothing".
For me, personally, "Offendering" is now more of a mindset of being more aggressive on a defender/corruptor/controller. It's about letting go of "I'm here to keep the team upright by healing and buffing everyone" and stepping into "I'm here to keep the team upright by killing stuff and doing my thing (which may depend on the buff/debuff set) and I ain't afriad of nothing".
|
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
given I'm in the camp where any death is a failure on my part, I won't respond to the idea of actually planning to use vengeance or fallout
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
given I'm in the camp where any death is a failure on my part, I won't respond to the idea of actually planning to use vengeance or fallout
|
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
*shameless plug*
Lukewarmdog posts the Repeat Offender schedule on the general discussion boards pretty much daily. RO now encompasses a lot of things beyond just offenders, there are supergroups for tanks, scrappers, and many other synergies (across Freedom, Virtue, and Justice). We do run "Retro RO" teams on thursday nights, which lately has been "Faithful Fans of Fallout" (Radiation Emission defenders, corruptors, and controllers with a focus on leveraging fallout and vengeance). Check out our forums at www.repeat-offenders.net! */end shameless plug* For me, personally, "Offendering" is now more of a mindset of being more aggressive on a defender/corruptor/controller. It's about letting go of "I'm here to keep the team upright by healing and buffing everyone" and stepping into "I'm here to keep the team upright by killing stuff and doing my thing (which may depend on the buff/debuff set) and I ain't afraid of nothing". |
So, yeah. Got a little sappy there, maybe. But I do appreciate that something like RO exists to basically run the game on its edges. A Brute tearing its way throw large spawns is kind of standard now. Doing the same with only Corruptors, Defenders and Controllers, though, now that's awesome. I kind of want to see how Trick plays, I had my doubts on my Trick Archer several times, but she's actually gotten pretty powerful.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
For me, personally, "Offendering" is now more of a mindset of being more aggressive on a defender/corruptor/controller. It's about letting go of "I'm here to keep the team upright by healing and buffing everyone" and stepping into "I'm here to keep the team upright by killing stuff and doing my thing (which may depend on the buff/debuff set) and I ain't afraid of nothing".
|
So yeah, to me the difference is more playstyle, but can be heavily influenced by powerset and choices made within those powersets.
- Ashley
[Rocker Girl (Earth/Earth Dom); Sweet Venom (Plant/Time Ctrl)]
Oftentimes death is unavoidable, for example, when a scrapper or blaster goes running off far ahead of the team. In this case, it is not the death that denotes the failure, but failing to take advantage of the opportunity that death represents to deliver some big hurt on the next pack of bad guys.
|
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
Offenders attack with their secondary powers instead of just spamming heals and topping up buffs. Team contribution goes up and you're not deadweight auto-running Healing Aura or Heal Other.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Offenders attack with their secondary powers instead of just spamming heals and topping up buffs. Team contribution goes up and you're not deadweight auto-running Healing Aura or Heal Other.
This is quite unfortunate since Fallout does crazy damage and debuffs, Veng is fantastic for the team and they're followed by Mutation, which is a sizeable buff as well. TP Bombing ftw. |
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
I used to only play "Defenders" and always advertised myself as an Offender. To me it simply is a mindset; not saying anything is wrong with being a Defender....only AT I cannot tolerate is a heal0r; which is a completely different mindset than an Empathy Defender
Emp/Rad
Emp/Dark
Kin/Elect
Rad/Psi
FF/Sonic
Cold/Ice
Traps/AR
All of those were 50 and all of them are now deleted except:
TA/Arch
It isn't because I dislike the AT, but I made a decision to limit myself to one of each AT as I had way too many toons to devote any decent amount of attention to. I will break this rule once Water Blast comes out and I will be making either a Rad/Water Def or Water/Rad Corruptor
I'm probably not the first person to have this particular thought, but decided I should post my thoughts here anyway, just in case. And because I'm wanting to rant about something.
Since I heard the term "offender" I've thought of that as a debuff heavy defender. However, I had a thought recently posting strategy and tactics suggestions on another game that is rather interesting.
Buff/Debuff is NOT the dividing line between offensive support and defensive support.
An defensive buff/debuff power set is one that primarily slows down the pace of the enemy while an offensive buff/debuff power set is one that primarily speeds up the pace of your team.
Powers that debuff enemy tohit, damage, endurance, recovery and recharge as well as those that buff team resistance, defense, regeneration, max or current hp(heal) are defensive powers.
Powers that debuff enemy regeneration, resistance and defense as well as those that buff team tohit, damage, recharge or recovery are offensive powers primarily.
To a small extent, debuffing move speed works in both ways.
Looking at things this way:
Cold Domination: primarily defensive as it mostly buffs player resistance and defense while debuffing enemy recharge and damage. However, there are also major powers that debuff enemy resistance, defense and regeneration. The offensive capacity is lumped mostly at the end of the power set with one power at the beginning.
Dark Miasma: almost entirely defensive with hefty amounts of tohit debuff, some rather heavy damage debuff and a decent def/resist buff. It has offensive potential in the form of -regen and -resistance, however.
Empathy: primarily defensive with three offensive powers starting at Fortitude. Mostly heals and other ways to prolong the survival of the team. The offensive powers include +rec, +rech, +dam and +tohit.
Force Field: Entirely defensive. Even the two damaging powers are predominately defensive.
Kinetics: Primarily offensive, but some limited defensive capability in the form of -End, -Dmg and -Rech
Radiation: Not only is this evenly split, but most of the mainstay powers of the set are equally offensive and defensive. This set pulls double duty.
Sonic Resonance: Primarily defensive with +Res, -tohit, some soft controls and an egg power (time out ability). Some offensive ability in the form of -res and -def.
Storm: Almost entirely defensive with -tohit, -recharge, +Res, +Def, several soft controls and a stun. Some offensive in the terms of -def, -res in one power.
Thermal Radiation: Mostly defensive until the end. Lots of heal, +Res, Status Protection, some -damage, -end, -recovery and a rez. Offensive abilities come in terms of +Dam, +tohit, -res and -def. Also the rez is a damaging rez.
Time Manipulation: Pretty well split, though slightly more defensive. Lots of -recharge, -damage, healing, +Regen, some holds and +def. On the offensive side, there is -regen, -heal, +dam, +tohit, +recovery, +end and +rech.
Traps: Primarily defensive with -recharge, +regen, -slow, +Def, +Status Pro, -Dmg, -Tohit, -Perception, some knockback and holds. The offensive comes with -def, -res and some out and out damage.
Trick Arrow: Mostly defensive with -rech, -tohit, -damage, -recovery as well as some knockdown and controls. The offensive is not light, however, with some -def, -res and some straight up damage.
By the same token, you can look at the ranged attacks available to defenders and corruptors. Though all ranged sets lean almost entirely toward the offensive, the secondaries involved can lean more toward the offensive or defensive.
Archery: Almost straight offensive. Some light controls, almost no debuff of any kind, mostly straight damage.
Assault Rifle: Almost straight offensive with some defensive in the form of lots of soft control in the form of KB and afraid status. There is one debuffing power that hits -Def adding to the basic damage to increase the offensive status.
Beam Rifle: -Res, -Def, -Regen, applied DoT...offense, offense, offense. Some defense in the form of knockdown.
Dark Blast: -tohit out the wazoo plus some soft control, very defensive in comparison to other defender blast sets.
Dual Pistols: Depends on ammo, with standard ammo, slightly defensive due to soft controls. With cyro ammo, slightly defensive due to -rech. With toxic ammo, slightly defensive due to -dam. With incendiary ammo, definitely offensive due to the added DoT. Regardless of ammo, there is a limited amount of -Res that adds to the offensive nature. Dual Pistols is usually defensive in comparison to other ranged sets, but has the option to drop defensive measures for offensive ones.
Electrical Blast: -End and -Rec makes this primarily defensive, though the effectiveness of end drain is limited at best.
Energy Blast: Primarily defensive due to the rather heavy amounts of knockback tossed about.
Fire Blast: Straight offense. Not even soft controls to slow down the enemy.
Ice Blast: Lots of -recharge, some -tohit and a couple of holds. Very defensive.
Psychic Blast: Several controls and a fair amount of -recharge. Very defensive.
Radiation Blast: Mostly -Def with a two controls. Very offensive.
Sonic Attack: Mostly -Res with a couple of controls. Also very offensive.
What's this mean?
What this means is that power sets with lots of defensive nature will tend to allow fights to last longer, giving you more time to whittle your opponent down. Offensive powers will allow you to end fights faster, letting you whittle your opponents faster.
This can also be important for mastermind secondaries.
A heavily offensive mastermind minion set would benefit heavily from a defensive range of support powers. On the other hand, masterminds who have minions that already have decent defenses might want to look at the offensive options available to them.
And, In that regard:
Poison: Primarily defensive with lots of -dmg, -tohit, -recharge, soft controls, status pro, some holds, -Rec and a little bit of healing, rez and +res. There is also hefty offense here in the form of a decent amount of -def and -res. Also, the rez adds some +Dam, +tohit, +recharge, +recovery, but that isn't something to be aiming to use.
Pain Manipulation: About split, +res, decent heals, +Regen, a rez and some status pro. Also several +Dmg, +Recharge, +Recovery, -Def and -Res. I'd say it leans a lot more toward offensive than defensive, but the heals are heavily defensive.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math