Offenders vs Defenders, what really makes the difference

I'm probably not the first person to have this particular thought, but decided I should post my thoughts here anyway, just in case. And because I'm wanting to rant about something.

Since I heard the term "offender" I've thought of that as a debuff heavy defender. However, I had a thought recently posting strategy and tactics suggestions on another game that is rather interesting.

Buff/Debuff is NOT the dividing line between offensive support and defensive support.

An defensive buff/debuff power set is one that primarily slows down the pace of the enemy while an offensive buff/debuff power set is one that primarily speeds up the pace of your team.

Powers that debuff enemy tohit, damage, endurance, recovery and recharge as well as those that buff team resistance, defense, regeneration, max or current hp(heal) are defensive powers.

Powers that debuff enemy regeneration, resistance and defense as well as those that buff team tohit, damage, recharge or recovery are offensive powers primarily.

To a small extent, debuffing move speed works in both ways.

Looking at things this way:

Cold Domination: primarily defensive as it mostly buffs player resistance and defense while debuffing enemy recharge and damage. However, there are also major powers that debuff enemy resistance, defense and regeneration. The offensive capacity is lumped mostly at the end of the power set with one power at the beginning.

Dark Miasma: almost entirely defensive with hefty amounts of tohit debuff, some rather heavy damage debuff and a decent def/resist buff. It has offensive potential in the form of -regen and -resistance, however.

Empathy: primarily defensive with three offensive powers starting at Fortitude. Mostly heals and other ways to prolong the survival of the team. The offensive powers include +rec, +rech, +dam and +tohit.

Force Field: Entirely defensive. Even the two damaging powers are predominately defensive.

Kinetics: Primarily offensive, but some limited defensive capability in the form of -End, -Dmg and -Rech

Radiation: Not only is this evenly split, but most of the mainstay powers of the set are equally offensive and defensive. This set pulls double duty.

Sonic Resonance: Primarily defensive with +Res, -tohit, some soft controls and an egg power (time out ability). Some offensive ability in the form of -res and -def.

Storm: Almost entirely defensive with -tohit, -recharge, +Res, +Def, several soft controls and a stun. Some offensive in the terms of -def, -res in one power.

Thermal Radiation: Mostly defensive until the end. Lots of heal, +Res, Status Protection, some -damage, -end, -recovery and a rez. Offensive abilities come in terms of +Dam, +tohit, -res and -def. Also the rez is a damaging rez.

Time Manipulation: Pretty well split, though slightly more defensive. Lots of -recharge, -damage, healing, +Regen, some holds and +def. On the offensive side, there is -regen, -heal, +dam, +tohit, +recovery, +end and +rech.

Traps: Primarily defensive with -recharge, +regen, -slow, +Def, +Status Pro, -Dmg, -Tohit, -Perception, some knockback and holds. The offensive comes with -def, -res and some out and out damage.

Trick Arrow: Mostly defensive with -rech, -tohit, -damage, -recovery as well as some knockdown and controls. The offensive is not light, however, with some -def, -res and some straight up damage.

By the same token, you can look at the ranged attacks available to defenders and corruptors. Though all ranged sets lean almost entirely toward the offensive, the secondaries involved can lean more toward the offensive or defensive.

Archery: Almost straight offensive. Some light controls, almost no debuff of any kind, mostly straight damage.

Assault Rifle: Almost straight offensive with some defensive in the form of lots of soft control in the form of KB and afraid status. There is one debuffing power that hits -Def adding to the basic damage to increase the offensive status.

Beam Rifle: -Res, -Def, -Regen, applied DoT...offense, offense, offense. Some defense in the form of knockdown.

Dark Blast: -tohit out the wazoo plus some soft control, very defensive in comparison to other defender blast sets.

Dual Pistols: Depends on ammo, with standard ammo, slightly defensive due to soft controls. With cyro ammo, slightly defensive due to -rech. With toxic ammo, slightly defensive due to -dam. With incendiary ammo, definitely offensive due to the added DoT. Regardless of ammo, there is a limited amount of -Res that adds to the offensive nature. Dual Pistols is usually defensive in comparison to other ranged sets, but has the option to drop defensive measures for offensive ones.

Electrical Blast: -End and -Rec makes this primarily defensive, though the effectiveness of end drain is limited at best.

Energy Blast: Primarily defensive due to the rather heavy amounts of knockback tossed about.

Fire Blast: Straight offense. Not even soft controls to slow down the enemy.

Ice Blast: Lots of -recharge, some -tohit and a couple of holds. Very defensive.

Psychic Blast: Several controls and a fair amount of -recharge. Very defensive.

Radiation Blast: Mostly -Def with a two controls. Very offensive.

Sonic Attack: Mostly -Res with a couple of controls. Also very offensive.

What's this mean?

What this means is that power sets with lots of defensive nature will tend to allow fights to last longer, giving you more time to whittle your opponent down. Offensive powers will allow you to end fights faster, letting you whittle your opponents faster.

This can also be important for mastermind secondaries.

A heavily offensive mastermind minion set would benefit heavily from a defensive range of support powers. On the other hand, masterminds who have minions that already have decent defenses might want to look at the offensive options available to them.

And, In that regard:

Poison: Primarily defensive with lots of -dmg, -tohit, -recharge, soft controls, status pro, some holds, -Rec and a little bit of healing, rez and +res. There is also hefty offense here in the form of a decent amount of -def and -res. Also, the rez adds some +Dam, +tohit, +recharge, +recovery, but that isn't something to be aiming to use.

Pain Manipulation: About split, +res, decent heals, +Regen, a rez and some status pro. Also several +Dmg, +Recharge, +Recovery, -Def and -Res. I'd say it leans a lot more toward offensive than defensive, but the heals are heavily defensive.

there are some sets that more easily lend themselves to an offender build than others, but the line isn't so much sets, but actual builds.

I really don't see this divide much anymore but back in the day there was a real divde among defenders.

On one hand you had defenders taking only a couple attacks in their secondary and built their toons around team support. The same group complained how defenders couldn't solo.

On the other hand you had defenders investing in both their primary and secondary like say any of the melee types woulds, and would leverage their primaries in doing damage, this group didn't have any problems soloing( other than maybe lacking mez protection maybe)

given I'm in the camp where any death is a failure on my part, I won't respond to the idea of actually planning to use vengeance or fallout

Offenders attack with their secondary powers instead of just spamming heals and topping up buffs. Team contribution goes up and you're not deadweight auto-running Healing Aura or Heal Other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycanus given I'm in the camp where any death is a failure on my part, I won't respond to the idea of actually planning to use vengeance or fallout

This is quite unfortunate since Fallout does crazy damage and debuffs, Veng is fantastic for the team and they're followed by Mutation, which is a sizeable buff as well. TP Bombing ftw.

I used to only play "Defenders" and always advertised myself as an Offender. To me it simply is a mindset; not saying anything is wrong with being a Defender....only AT I cannot tolerate is a heal0r; which is a completely different mindset than an Empathy Defender

Emp/Rad
Emp/Dark
Kin/Elect
Rad/Psi
FF/Sonic
Cold/Ice
Traps/AR
All of those were 50 and all of them are now deleted except:

TA/Arch

It isn't because I dislike the AT, but I made a decision to limit myself to one of each AT as I had way too many toons to devote any decent amount of attention to. I will break this rule once Water Blast comes out and I will be making either a Rad/Water Def or Water/Rad Corruptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!