Most damaging Primary?

I know that Fire and Plant can lay down some serious damage but, pound-for-pound, which one comes out on top?

It seems that Plant pulls ahead in Pet damage and Carrion applies more control in its damage distribution than Bonfire but how does Hot Feet and Seeds equate in? Is Flashfire (proc'ed) even worth mentioning?

What about other Primaries?

Are we talking AoE or ST damage?

Are we counting secondaries?

Both AoE and ST.

Just the primaries.

That's really tough.

AOE:

Creepers >> Bonfire for many reasons, but you also have to factor in Hot Feet.

Personally I'd probably give the nod to Plant based on the damage contribution from Seeds being more than you get from HotFeet for mobs that aren't confuse resistant. Without the massive +dmg from Fulcrum shift (we're leaving secondaries out) the spawn would (IMO/E) melt faster with Plant so your drops/time would be a lot better.

Single Target:

I'd tend to put Fire over Plant for single target as the Imps will EASILY out damage Twitchy, and Seeds really doesn't come into play at all. Creepers effect would also be minimized via single target.

So based on my playstyle with Plant and Fire (several of 40's/50's of each) that's how I'd break them down.

Of course a lot would depend on the specifics; vs Nemesis for instance, Fire would win hands down. Against a single target that uses a lot of AOE, the imps are likely to die pretty fast so Plant *might* look better given how much better it plays at range.

Arg

It's worth noting that secondaries DO interact differently with the different primaries. Using Kin as the obvious example, Fire/ will tend to get a better boost from FS than Plant will because of Hotfeet.

I'd also mention that Dark/ is up there too IME. Living Shadows can slot an extra proc (Cloud Senses) compared to Fire Cages and Roots, and the 2 Shades + Mrs O'Leary >> Twitchy in terms of both dmg and utility. Dark also has MUCH better survivability than either Fire/ or Plant/ between the -ToHit and the superior single target control afforded by Possess.

Personally I've been spoiled by Dark/, so I'm kinda biased atm.

Arg

You may also want to factor in how the upcoming "kb to kd" IO will affect bonfire's usefulness.

Fire case closed...

Well it's a unique so more suited for characters with a single kb power they'd like to change than an energy/storm corruptor that rolled the combo despite hating knockback.

A KB to KD IO would have a huge impact on Fire/ (having bonfire act like it does with +5 mobs for EVERYONE? Yes please!) AND /Storm's Tornado. Even if you can only have the one since it's unique it would make a tremendous difference to how those two powers play.

Just, wow. I wouldn't have expected them to make that available.

Obviously I need to do some reading.

And yes, Fire/ with a KD version of bonfire would be my pick. It turns Bonfire into BOTH an easily used dmg power and a fantastic soft control, like adding ice slick to Fire/ but with quite decent AOE dmg. Wow. I don't know if I want to make a new Fire/Dark or a Dark/Storm now!?

Arg

Nevermind, my brain seems to be warming up. For anyone else looking the relevant thread/posts are here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=289673&page=2

Arg

With the new KD proc, which will do more damage, Bonfire or Tornado? I have a Fire/Storm stalled at Lvl 39.

According to Mids:

Tornado does 61 ticks of 6.67 smashing damage for a total of 407.1 (unenhanced at level 50).

Bonfire does 23 ticks of 5.56 fire damage for a total of 127.9.

However, Bonfire has a 25 foot radius. And if it's only doing knockdown then that's potentially much more damage spread over up to 16 targets. For single target, though, Tornado hands down.

With the knockback -> KD I'd probably put it in Bonfire on my Fire/Storm. Bonfire with KD is an AWESOME control tool in addition to being fabulous AOE dmg. It would be incredible. it's also substantially easier to stack Bonfire (45 sec duration with only 60 rech vs only 30 sec duration with the same 60 sec rech for tornado).

Tornado is absolutely the weapon of choice for single hard targets, but many of the toughest are already kb proof, and it's much easier to kb proof a single target with ring of fire.

Arg

I am thinking of putting the proc in Bonfire. Pretty easy to keep a single target locked down with fire cages to prevent KB on a hard target.

I've not heard about the KB->KD IO.

Anyway, when I've compared the two sets, I've tried to make an exact assumption about how area coverage factors into total AoE Damage done. I settled on actually using the radius or an equivalent (e.g., a 90 deg arc on 15' radius = 7.5') as a scalar.

Like I say, the IO's news to me, but I think the right comparison of AoE dmg on the two is between Fire Cages + Hotfeet vs Creepers + Vines. When I do that and assume 95% rech on everything (which well accounts for cast times) I find Creepers + Vines comes out modestly ahead of Fire Cages + Hotfeet.

BTW my look doesn't account for variances in MoB dmg type resists. I have always wondered though whether having good -res in the secondary narrows the gap.

I think the experience of the two tends to bias against fire because of the increased speed of death Seeds gives you. Anybody judging it from play alone should probably remember that. Not that the confusions don't make what you're trying to do more effective-- they definitely do-- but it's prohibitively hard to figure in confused-mob damage equivalency.

I noticed that the in-game Detailed Info, for Creepers, differs from the Mids info when it comes to the damage; with the DI giving a much higher number.

Why the discrepancy?

Fire.

I think the new IO will breathe life into Fire Control once again...for those of us who hate having to constantly apply cages or if cages misses and a baddie goes flying off into another KB dimension .

If only Bonfire took as many Procs as Caltrops does :P.

Man...I know Ice Control is SO pissed off right now.

No way are they going to let Bonfire convert knockback directly to knockdown over the long term, if thats how the IO works. That's crossing an extreme even for this game. I doubt that will even make it out of beta without a nerf if thats how it works right now (I haven't been able to test it yet). I would expect at best to elinate knockback and get knockdown every 10 seconds.

For the record, Earthquake and Ice Slick have durations of 30 seconds, and a 8% and 7% chance to knockdown every 1/5th of a second. Bonfire would last 45 seconds and have a 100% chance to knockdown every 1/5th of a second. Bonfire is also a power in a Blaster and Mastermind APP. Not in a million years is that going to fly.