how does dark/rad stack up to ill/rad

in a debate between the two set up. i know ill/rad is a beast. hows dark/rad about the same??

What you're really looking at is the difference between Illusion and Dark Control.

I've played Ill/Rad up to level 50, and my Dark/Rad is currently stuck in a holding pattern at level 42. Illusion is much more powerful, mainly due to Phantom Army's ability to grab and hold aggro from an entire group while you apply Rad debuffs. Haunt is nothing at all like PA. When you cast it the group's aggro does not go to the pets, it goes to you. This is a huge difference, as you have nothing but your big puppy to really take aggro, but unlike Illusion you don't get Invisibility from within the set, so you either have to use SS+Stealth Proc, or SS+Stealth, to be able to run past the group as your pet takes the alpha(and likely dies).

That said, I'm sure that if I ever get my Dark/Rad to 50 and IO the build it will be fairly strong simply because it's /Rad, but it will never be as strong as an equally IO'd Ill/Rad.

I know a little bit about Ill/Rad. My experience with Dark has been with a Dark/Dark and a Dark/Storm (and a baby Dark/Dark Dom). It is difficult to compare the sets because the overall focus of the sets are different. Illusion is all about Distraction and then Damage. Understanding how to take advantage of the Illusory Damage is important to increase Illusion's overall damage. Dark Control is Decent Control and Debuffing ToHit. Most powers have a -ToHit component. Dark Control is moderate damage for a control set, but that damage can be increased by using lots of procs.

As much as possible, here's a comparison:

Shadowy Binds v. Spectral Wounds -- Same base damage. Spectral Wounds gets an extra 20 points of Illusory Damage that heals back after 10 seconds vs. single target Immob. Negative Damage v. Psi Damage. That Illusory Damage makes a huge difference, so SW wins.

Blind vs. Dark Grasp -- two single target holds with same damage. Blind gets slightly shorter duration hold but gets a small AoE Sleep. Maybe a slight edge to Blind or equal.

Deceive vs. Possess -- Deceive has a slightly shorter cast time and is available 2 levels sooner. Possess has a better visual appeal, but that does not affect performance. Pretty much equal, or Deceive has a very small edge.

Flash vs. (Heart of Darkness or Shadow Field?) -- HoD is a PB AoE Stun that recharges fast, while Shadow Field is a ranged Hold Patch. It is hard to say which one is better to compare to Flash, a PB AoE Hold. Either Dark power is superior to Illusion's Flash.

Fearsome Stare vs. Spectral Terror -- This is a hard comparison. FS and Spooky both have -15% ToHit Debuff. FS has a 30 sec duration cone fear and a 40 sec Recharge (easily Perma) while Spooky is a 45 second duration pet with a 45 second Recharge, so it is perma out of the box. Both are great powers and it is hard to say which is better. FS is a one-shot cone while Spooky is a persistant immobile pet. I'd probably lean a little more towards Fearsome Stare, since it is a "use every group" power. Spooky isn't really needed as much if PA have the aggro.

Phantom Army vs. Haunt -- PA are 3 invulnerable but unbuffable pets with both ranged and melee attacks and a taunt aura. Haunt is two buffable pets but can be killed pretty easily and have melee attacks. PA Recharge is 240 second base, while Haunt is a base Recharge of 210 seconds. I think PA wins easily here. PA is by far the most important power in Illusion and Perma-PA is what makes an Illusion Controller so "beastly."

Phantasm v. Umbra Beast -- Phanty is an Energy Blaster who casts a decoy. What's Umbra's nickname? I kind of liked "Spooky Doo" but that's too close to Illusion's "Spooky." Some folks call him "Barky" for obvious reasons. Barky is annoying, but Phanty has knockback (which can be annoying but can also provide some protection). Phanty's Decoy can make a huge difference, especially before PA are perma. I think it is a matter of opinion, but I think Phanty is more effective. I find that Phanty survives longer and does good damage. And he's less annoying.

Other powers: Two forms of Invisibility vs. a Cone Immob and a second control power (HoD or Shadow Field). Invisibility for an Illusion Controller is a key part of the controllers survivability since PA's taunt aura draws the aggro. Also, single target attacks means that an Illusion Controller isn't drawing a bunch of aggro to himself beyond his ability to control. Invisibility is nce, but Dark's additional controls gives it a huge improvement for AoE control. A Dark Controller can get Invisibility with Super Speed and a Stealth IO. Shadow Field is a really interesting hold power in that it is a persistant patch. The Cone Immob, Living Shadows, can be slotted up with damage procs to help a Dark Controller's AoE Damage, which is something that Illusion badly lacks. So Dark Control has two extra AoE control powers over Illusion, and both set Containment.

Synergy with Rad: Rad is one of the best secondaries and works well with all primaries. Both Illusion and Dark can be played at range except for one PB AoE control power, and Rad works well from ranged except for one PB AoE control power. Rad's debuffs make PA much better. But AM won't affect PA while it will buff Haunt -- as long as you are close enough. Neither powerset has anything that will make Choking Cloud useful. (Fire. Ice and Electric all have PB AoE toggles that work well with Choking Cloud.)

One very small benefit Illusion has with Rad -- both Flash and EM Pulse are PB AoE holds, so they can be stacked together to hold bosses in a large group. Illusion also makes better use of the Slow in Ling Rad, as Dark's cone Immob makes a Slow power not all that beneficial.

Overall: Illusion is a great set for solo and small team. It can still contribute to large teams, too, but mostly be adding damage and an Alpha-strike sponge. It does good single target damage, but is weak on AoE control and damage. Illusion is mostly Psi damage, which is great for most of the game but difficult against Robot types. A high recharge build with Perma-PA is amazingly effective at providing distraction for groups of foes. The pets and single-target nature of the attacks keeps an invisible Illusion Controller safe without needing Defense.

Illusion gets more of a benefit from Deceive than Dark does from Possess. Because Illusion is more single target focused, Deceive will get rid of aggro from an occasional foe who aggros on the controller. Dark has a lot of AoE, so a single target Confuse has less benefit. Illusion can also take down single foes faster, thereby getting more of the XP that might be absorbed by the confused foe.

Dark, on the other hand, does very good AoE control, with a touch of ToHit Debuffing. It has medium to weak damage and its pets are mostly melee who can be killed. It is mostly Negative and Smashing damage, which is also resisted by some foes. The AoE nature will tend to draw more aggro, so a Dark/Rad may need Defense more than an Ill/Rad. With proper slotting, Dark/Rad can contribute some AoE damage, but isn't as strong on single target damage.

Ill/Rad is probably better in a wide range of situations including solo and small teams, but Dark/Rad is probably better for a larger team that needs control over damage.

I think Local man is a Tad Bias on this one lol. Honestly though he's basically right though. Illusion is going to put out more damage than Dark or at least Illusion has a huge burst of dmg thanks to PA. Dark has more control and the -to hit meshes well with you soft control/buff powers like Choking Cloud and Radiation Infection. Illusion doesn't have to worry much about control since all of your pets keep you safe.

Dark has a lot of unrealized potential that even I don't know about yet and I still have yet to get one to 53. I've been also told that it's possible to have two Haunts out at the same time if you have enough recharge.

I think Ill/Rad comes out on top but you should try Dark/Rad once you're done with you Ill/Rad controller.

No troller set tops Ill/rad IMHO. Having said that Dark/rad is an excellent combo you will enjoy.

Ill/Cold and Ill/Poison are great combos. Both of those two can dish out -Res like crazy...even though /Poison is risky it has the "potential" to out -Res Cold.

You guys are making me feel bad for being ill/emp.

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Pauper