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Which means either they don't want to make one, or they've heard it so many times that they already know we want it, or or that it's already on the schedule...
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
During the summit the Devs asked for players to not choose whips <snip>
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Oh darn, whips aren't real world weapons, guess we can't have them then..|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I guess I get to be the one to point out that whips aren't even weapons. There is nothing resembling real world basis for "whip fighting." The only reason they work to the extent that they do for demon summoning is that they're entirely particle effects that can be as long as necessary to imply some sort of magical harmfulness. Frankly I think they look pretty terrible, no offense to whoever worked on them, just because the animations carry no weight at all since they're based on the false premise that some little piece of leather is going to do more than give you a carpet burn.
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Oh wait, neither is Energy Melee, Electrical Melee or Dark Melee.. I don't see many people running around attacking people with Spines protruding out of their body either, we better scrap all those powersets while we're at it. Oh and Mind control? Pfft, all sci-fi fluff, get rid of that too!
Sorry, I fail to see how real world use of a whip has any basis on whether or not it should be included in a comic book game.
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Primantiss
Oh darn, whips aren't real world weapons, guess we can't have them then..
Oh wait, neither is Energy Melee, Electrical Melee or Dark Melee.. I don't see many people running around attacking people with Spines protruding out of their body either, we better scrap all those powersets while we're at it. Oh and Mind control? Pfft, all sci-fi fluff, get rid of that too! Sorry, I fail to see how real world use of a whip has any basis on whether or not it should be included in a comic book game. |
The very idea that a concept should be rejected for not being realistic in some sense is laughable in CoH.
I'd love to see a whip based powerset. It might be expensive for the devs to create, and maybe they'd never have considered the expense worth it in the past after the effort to make the DS whip attacks for GR, but that was quite a while ago, not only do tools change and clever development methods occur, but also I think such a powerset would sell quite well even at a premium price and even with the kinds of redraw limitations the current DS attacks have.
The difference is that whips are real and are not weapons. Why does that matter? Well, look at the existing whip animations. To me they look pretty stupid: they lack anything resembling punch, they don't actually appear to hit the target (all of the contact is in the form of the big fluffy flame effects) and if you focus on the whip part and not all the particles surrounding it they don't even look like things you could do with a whip in the first place. The overhand tickle is especially weak but the pirouette is not far behind. The whip crack ranged attack actually sort of looks like something whips can do... and then fires out a magical fire bullet.
That last one illustrates the most central problem to a whip power set: other than spooky flame whips, what whip concept can be properly served in this game? If you want them to use real world whips, they need to come up with nine different whip powers that don't involve demonic fireballs. There's also no chance they could have anything like hell on earth's lasso effect if they made it a weapon set with selectable 3d models. Further, while I'm sure the art team would be flattered, to think that a super-narrow yet highly detailed thing like a whip is going to have a shot of looking good in the CoH engine on a variety of computers is optimistic at best. Look at the polycounts on titan weapons to get a better idea of what they can realistically do at their most ambitious.
So let's say all of that is out the window and we really just want fire whips. Take the existing three attacks and add some more like them. Then you don't need any more real world animations, they can just come up with whip flurry and whip spin and what have you. By what standard wouldn't that be the most concept-limited power set they'd ever added to the game? Does anyone have a flame whip who wasn't designed to move hologram covers in the early 90s? There's probably an example here or there, but I can tell you right now that if you asked for a full melee set based on demon whips the devs would say either out loud or internally "Just play demon summoning, man."
I know I'd be all over it in a second if it came out for Doms and maybe for Blasters, Corrs and Defenders? Not sure how that'd work but I'd definitely take it on a Dom or Corr as it would really be a major component of my final Goblin Queen build.
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Agreed - some form of Elemental whip assault. Done!
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I would be happy with the current MM animations and a few other random powers to be honest.
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My Corner of DeviantART
The Queen's Menagerie
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Why do you keep saying this when you have been shown it is not true. There are several whip weapons in history. Just because you ignore it does not make them not exist.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
The difference is that whips are real and are not weapons
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Dirges
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I've always thought, get the attacks from Martial Arts or Street Justice, bring down the ranged attacks from scrappers weapon mastery (shuriken and exploding shuriken) and we are done.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
EDIT: If I had to pic a natural Weapon Based set...hrmm maybe throwing knives...I've never thought it through since I'm more of a Magic person.
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Hrmm, That would work well but I don't know. The devs as of late have really been pushing the limits of the game and our imagination...I guess a MA based set would work but I have a feeling that they would do something that is completely from left field...I think it might be something though that doesn't cause redraw.
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Originally Posted by Tormentoso
I've always thought, get the attacks from Martial Arts or Street Justice, bring down the ranged attacks from scrappers weapon mastery (shuriken and exploding shuriken) and we are done.
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It doesn't matter that whips are not weapons in the real world. This game is not trying to simulate the real world. Whips are used as weapons by some characters in the comic books. CoH is trying to simulate a comic book world. Your real world arguments related to whips and their implementation have no relevance to CoH due to game genre.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
The difference is that whips are real and are not weapons. Why does that matter? Well, look at the existing whip animations. To me they look pretty stupid...
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Your opinion regarding the aesthetics of the existing or potential whips and whip strikes is neither here nor there as to whether a whip set is desired or desirable to anyone other than yourself. Individuals can determine for themselves if the appearance and animation of the whips meet their standards.
I feel a dedicated whip set would be a nice addition to the game, and it is clearly desired by several players. I don't know, however, that enough players would want it so that it would be worth the effort to make.
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If you can look at the existing whip animations with particle effects turned off and say, "Yes. That looks great. I want more of that," then we are so dramatically distant in our aesthetic appraisals that I might as well be posting this from the surface of Europa.
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Originally Posted by -Urchin-
Your opinion regarding the aesthetics of the existing or potential whips and whip strikes is neither here nor there as to whether a whip set is desired or desirable to anyone other than yourself. Individuals can determine for themselves if the appearance and animation of the whips meet their standards.
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Whether you, or I, or another individual likes or dislikes the existing whip animations without particle effects is irrelevant as to whether there should or shouldn't be a whip power set, and has nothing to do with whether others will find these animations good enough for them.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
If you can look at the existing whip animations with particle effects turned off and say, "Yes. That looks great. I want more of that," then we are so dramatically distant in our aesthetic appraisals that I might as well be posting this from the surface of Europa.
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Prospective purchasers will be able to check out the whip animations on the beta server and make their own decision as to whether or not they are up to snuff, from their point of view... all by themselves.
For those that do not wish to access the beta server, there will be the inevitable youtube videos of the animations for them to assess, which will still allow them to decide if they like it... all by themselves.
People don't need others to tell them what's good enough for them, and what they should or shouldn't want to be on offer.
My pet less DS Traps can solo 4/8 and is defense capped. Half the player base in this game can't do 2/8.
Hes soloed Pylons and AVs / Heroes. I don't know what more he needs to do to prove a useful toon
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives