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We know for a fact they aren't because RMT spam became nearly nonexistent after the devs implemented the account restrictions|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
2) You don't think they're willing to throw $5 at an account to get rid of the worst restrictions and lighten the others so they can make more money?
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back in I12. And if they were spending money after Freedom launched we'd be flooded with them spamming Tells and Emails but they aren't. We only see them using Local and /help.
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| I've seen them in other games, subscription only, where they pay the subscription to advertise. |
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| Hell, they used to pay the subscription here to farm up the stuff to sell. |
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| They still need invention licenses and market licenses. |
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| They're spending money to make money. |
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| The restrictions do nothing, especially since they only restrict "those who have in game mail access". Once they reach that point, you have failed to stop them. |
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| 3) You don't think they also use hacked/stolen accounts, especially form their paying customers who have handed over their passwords for power leveling services? |
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| So, shall we limit the honest people |
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| while the dishonest keep going on as usual |
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| I vote for the latter. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
In the interest of protecting our existing Community which has always been so loyal, we've chosen to err on the side of curtailing the free players ability to grief.
As we've stated, the cornerstone of CoH has always been, and will continue to be, our veteran Community. |
As a limited work-around, when I was working on a neglected level 50 on another server, I transferred one of mine with full vault, full personal inventory of salvage and IOs and filled the new base with all the goodies. When it was convenient, I transferred said toon back, and got a rename in the process. (had my alt snag the name on the original server to save it)
I would love it if instead of stashing all that stuff in my base, if we had a global vault, as suggested earlier. Room for 1000 items. Maybe that would be enough, lol.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
The least they could do is allow us to transfer stuff between our own characters all on the same account without limits.
The whole problem is with different accounts.
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They use local and help because they can spam people faster and easier and more people.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
We know for a fact they aren't because RMT spam became nearly nonexistent after the devs implemented the account restrictions
back in I12. And if they were spending money after Freedom launched we'd be flooded with them spamming Tells and Emails but they aren't. We only see them using Local and /help. |
I'm not sure, but emails also have a report spam button right? Chat makes you click the name and report spammer that way. Sure, they're both easy, but the latter isn't as obvious. They can also get out more tells before they're reported/ignored than emails.
My point about the money was they obviously spend a good deal of money to farm and are willing to spend that money to advertise as well sometimes. In fact, there were spammers in CoH before trial accounts existed.
The reason there aren't as many RMT spammers in CoH now? AE
Everybody, and their dog, seems to have an incarnate fire farmer now. They can easily get another character to 50. The farmer doesn't even need to be on the main account since all it takes is an AE license and the ability to team. That's dirt cheap for the benefit.
the real money trade guys lost business to the legitimate players.
But, they are still in CoH as you can see in Atlas Wentworths local chat every day, and even Cap Au Diable also.
Though, if they are supposedly "virtually gone" then why aren't the item email restrictions lessened? Afraid they will come back?
Edit:
They need the AE license to be able to farm using AE. They need the invention license to farm anywhere though since they either can't get the rewards they can convert into loads of INF or sell for real cash or can't purchase them with AE tickets or reward merits.
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where did I say "remove all"?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I tend to think that people like T_Immortalus don't seem to appreciate just how bad things would actually be if all the anti-spam features of this game were suddenly removed. It would be an absolute nightmare.
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I'm just asking for "same account to same account"(like my main to my alt) to be made easier. That wouldn't be exploitable by RMTers as they still have to get it to a different account.
That is where the developers went wrong. They screwed the honest safe trades within the same account to try to stop account to account transfers.
Why didn't they put in the effort to make the system check if the receiving global handle was the same as the sender?
Dumb poor design as usual.
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You are clearly making the assumption that there would be no way to exploit what you are talking about and even if you couldn't exploit it that it would be trivial to do what you want to begin with.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
where did I say "remove all"?
I'm just asking for "same account to same account"(like my main to my alt) to be made easier. That wouldn't be exploitable by RMTers as they still have to get it to a different account. That is where the developers went wrong. They screwed the honest safe trades within the same account to try to stop account to account transfers. Why didn't they put in the effort to make the system check if the receiving global handle was the same as the sender? Dumb poor design as usual. |
Unless you are a Dev I will reserve judgment on what you deem "necessary" in terms of anti-spam considerations for this game. For what it's worth I practically NEVER bump up against these limits in my day-to-day playing of this game. I'm quite sure they annoy the heck out of some people, but they are hardly the annoyance for most people you are trying to make them out to be here.
A "dumb poor design" that only negatively affects a few players is like a tree falling in the forest - if most people aren't around to hear it is it really -that- much of a problem?
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Other MMOs that I've played have exactly this solution: Spam limits are not in place on mails to yourself.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
however i do thinkthat they should be able to lax the rules a bit when emailing yourself, the 15 sec timer between emails + 150 emails per day limit should not include sending stuff to yourself
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Even the 800lb gorilla in MMO land uses it that way. It seems to have no ill effects.
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1) Actually, my original position was that EVERY system is exploitable. Somebody always finds a way, so you may as well not make it too hard on the honest folks.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
You are clearly making the assumption that there would be no way to exploit what you are talking about
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2) I really don't see how checking to see that the sender's global handle is the same as the recipient's global handle is ever exploitable.
Seriously, they would need to match exactly, which can't EVER happen between different accounts. Different accounts, because they sell stuff to different accounts, is the problem.
I think it's pretty obviously a good idea that they should have done in the first place, but they probably thought "it's good enough, they can deal with it".
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The fact that every system is exploitable does not justify the removal of safeguards and never will. Just because gun control laws don't stop ALL gun related crime does not prove that we would all be better off with NO gun control laws. As an "honest" folk myself I'm willing to live in a game with -some- controls if it means the vast majority of spam is mitigated, which it is.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Actually, my original position was that EVERY system is exploitable. Somebody always finds a way, so you may as well not make it too hard on the honest folks.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
I think it's pretty obviously a good idea that they should have done in the first place, but they probably thought "it's good enough, they can deal with it".
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If you choose to see that as some kind of "failure" on the Devs' part then that's up to you. *shrugs*
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I'd rather play in a game that annoys a few "legitimate" players over one that makes it any easier for RMTers to operate in.
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Originally Posted by RogerWilco
Even the 800lb gorilla in MMO land uses it that way. It seems to have no ill effects.
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Interesting and lively discussion.
Here is what I advocate for: Account wide storage. I will even pay (*some) paragon points for the Privilege. I think a minimum acceptable amount for "1st tier" would be 50 enhancers, 200 Salvage, 2 Billion Inf
"2nd Tier" of paragon bought account wide salvage:+ 30 special salvage this would solve the Catalysts and new I/O switching Salvage.
"3rd Tier" +30 Incarnate Salvage storage. I have deleted many 50s with VR, rares, etc. Would have been nice to strip it all. I really love to use the whole buffalo.
The money they invest in a Dev coding it will quickly be made back.
Someone pointed out it takes 5 minutes to load 20 e-mails. I moved over 400 during this "spring cleaning"
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For what it's worth I think there's probably more of a chance of getting some form of global storage like this than there is of getting further tweaks on the aging, convoluted email system. The easiest way to do this would be to expand the current character vaults to be common to all the characters of an account. Extra space could be bought in increments from the Paragon Market.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Interesting and lively discussion.
Here is what I advocate for: Account wide storage. I will even pay (*some) paragon points for the Privilege. I think a minimum acceptable amount for "1st tier" would be 50 enhancers, 200 Salvage, 2 Billion Inf "2nd Tier" of paragon bought account wide salvage:+ 30 special salvage this would solve the Catalysts and new I/O switching Salvage. "3rd Tier" +30 Incarnate Salvage storage. I have deleted many 50s with VR, rares, etc. Would have been nice to strip it all. I really love to use the whole buffalo. |
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This I would like to see. It would be better to have a new "well designed from the ground up" system for making transfers on your single account better.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
For what it's worth I think there's probably more of a chance of getting some form of global storage like this than there is of getting further tweaks on the aging, convoluted email system.
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I don't care how it is done(so long as it works). I just hate having to transfer items one...at...a....time.
(FYI, some of us do need to transfer a lot around relatively often, especially when we have Halloween salvage and keep switching mains every month or so. Yes, I have alt-mainitis. Don't judge me!
)
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They could always keep said limit if they would simply create that global storage many of us discussed over the years.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
/YosemiteSam
I really hate the "single item per email" limit though. There is absolutely no reason to have a limit from your account to your own account, or same account to same account. There may even no longer be a reason for the limit at all. 1) You're not selling anything to yourself. 2) The gold spammers just send a few really high priced items and probably physically trade, which has no limits, instead of email anyway. I really hate that stupid limit on both how many items per email and the max per day limit. They are now pointless and just aggravate us. |
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We'd all like that, but where storage is concerned I always had the impression the devs put a cost on everything they give us. And I don't necessarily mean monetary. More of a they'll give us this but change or take away something related.
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Originally Posted by WanderingAries
They could always keep said limit if they would simply create that global storage many of us discussed over the years.
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Yes, please!
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Here is what I advocate for: Account wide storage. I will even pay (*some) paragon points for the Privilege.
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I'd pay 400 paragon points to be able to store an extra 10 emails at a time and for the removal of the 15 second timer between emails to your own global.
I have a couple of toons that basically exist in AE and need to launder huge numbers of tickets on bronze rolls. Because of the stupidly low restrictions on base storage, I email them across to alts on a server I don't play on as much, where I have spare storage and alts that can sell 36 items at a time. I've not hit the 150 limit, but agree that emails to your own global shouldn't count against this.
I also really wish you could email salvage in stacks of 10, when commons are 200K+ and I have 10 on a different server, emailing them separately is painful.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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this!!!!
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Originally Posted by necrotech_master
i do thinkthat they should be able to lax the rules a bit when emailing yourself, the 15 sec timer between emails + 150 emails per day limit should not include sending stuff to yourself
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Back then, e-mail was used primarily by RMTers to spam you with e-mails about their services. That was before you could turn off or limit who could e-mail you too.
Now one could certainly argue that the addition of newer anti-spam features over the years has made things somewhat more annoying for some legitimate uses and I would certainly like to live in a world where I didn't have to suffer living within any kinds of limits regardless. Sadly none of us live in that kind of paradise. In the real world we have to accept a certain measure of control and restriction in order to rid ourselves of the vast majority of the RMTer menace.
I tend to think that people like T_Immortalus don't seem to appreciate just how bad things would actually be if all the anti-spam features of this game were suddenly removed. It would be an absolute nightmare.
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