i think this is only the 2nd or 3rd time ive seen this brought up since we got global email since im sure most people done email that much lol
however i do thinkthat they should be able to lax the rules a bit when emailing yourself, the 15 sec timer between emails + 150 emails per day limit should not include sending stuff to yourself
If you recall the Devs added several elements to their "anti-spam" features over the course of many months if not years. In their attempt to make it hard for spammers to spam email I think several of these features now sort of interfere with each other and make some parts of it more annoying than they should be or even obsolete.
Sure the 150 email limit probably makes it hard to do what you're trying to do. But sadly I'm not sure this is the type of thing that would ever change unless the Devs went back the drawing board and redesigned the whole email system from the ground up with better integrated anti-spam countermeasures. You have to figure that the 150 limit probably only negatively affects "legitimate" users a few times a day or even just a few times a week at most. This is not going to be a priority for them by any stretch of the imagination.
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Truth. I figure (hope) this issue will only affect me a couple times ever in playing. This is equivalent to moving a house.
The reason I posted was it was such a weird thing to find out. Also, someone needs to keep bringing these quality of life issues up to or you get to a point in the future and the devs are like "No one ever said there was a problem with it..."
There is a huge problem with the storage system.
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I think the storage situation also simply "evolved" over time and I doubt they ever really intended for people to move large amounts of items anywhere via any method.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
There is a huge problem with the storage system.
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I know other games have implemented "global storage space" that allows their characters to more easily transfer stuff between characters. This game has always taken the position that "characters are individuals" and has only allowed things to be transferred between them as a reluctant afterthought.
There are probably many things about this game like this that could use a "total redesign" from scratch. Maybe CoH2 will provide for these things someday.
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I think that, even though it might make sense to a player that they should be allowed to send any number of emails to themselves, there's still a load on the server for each email sent. If I were designing this, I probably would not make an exception for "to yourself" either. Limits are limits, and apply to anybody.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I know other games have implemented "global storage space" that allows their characters to more easily transfer stuff between characters.
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This is actually an excellent suggestion imo and one I think we should bug the devs about. A Tier 3 reward (same level as "use global channels and join an SG") such as a new /gvault command would be an awesome addition to the game.
A good point was made about the Devs considering each character "separate." What the Devs might have overlooked is why people like me stay with the game. I alt like mad. I make one 50 after another, probably averaging one every 2 weeks. I delete plenty of characters in the teens, 20, 30, 40, and 50s. This weekend I deleted two 50+3s w/ tier 4s. I strip every one, take what treasure they got, pick the bones, delete. If the name is something I like I save it for later.
Many of us are altaholics. I have been to the step meeting in Atlas park, aka DFB runs. By making it more difficult for a large portion of their player base to pursue this valid way of playing does not serve a good business model.
Hmm, speaking of alts, a lot of folks have secondary accounts. I can't think of a good way to bind two accounts together such that they share a single global storage (so that you can share goodies between all of your accounts).
Sounds like a darn dangerous thing to do, actually.
(Blue, I realize you weren't talking about alts in that way, but I wanted to get that thought out there while it was still fresh. Thanks for putting up with me.)
P.S. I don't like your sig. It's four words "Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls."
Yeah, sharing storage across accounts sounds 1) like a pipe dream since we cannot seem to get them to do it for one account. 2) horrifically open to abuse and a plethora of bad scenarios.
on the sig...heh, it's a bit of game history I love, since I alt so much and PUG like crazy it speaks to me.
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No, the quote is appropriate. Statesman (the dev, Jack Emmert) said that in a thread on the forums a long, long time ago.
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
P.S. I don't like your sig. It's four words "Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls."
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Blue, You may not be aware of this but as far as the devs are concerned there isn't a huge problem with the storage system anymore because they feel they fixed it.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
There is a huge problem with the storage system.
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You see we used to be able to store 2,500 pieces of salvage in the Base Salvage Bins. The devs decided that our having access to that much storage was a problem that needed to be corrected because we weren't using the bins the way the devs intended for them to be used. So back in issue 13 the devs reduced the amount of salvage we could store in the bins from 2,500 to 30.
We've voiced our displeasure ever since and been ignored because they apparently have no intention of changing it.
Now it's possible that they may one day decide to add some sort of global personal storage, but if they do it won't be for a very large amount. Being cynical after seeing what was done to the Base salvage bins the most I can imagine them allowing is 25-50 slots. If they allowed more then I picture the base amount being lower with them selling global storage expansions on the market for several hundred points.
Hell they might even sell the whole kit and kaboodle on the market.
I actually love your idea Forbin. I'm willing to pay a few hundred points for it. I would (grudgingly) pay up to 800 points points for a decent set up. But it cannot be like the dumb e-mail system with the 15 sec waits.
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Specifically, the "Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls." comes from 2 different "stupid team mate' stories (in the same thread I think) way back in the first year CoH came out. So technically "Kill Skuls" was the operative phrase for one of the two stories, so there shouldn't be a problem quoting just those two words.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
No, the quote is appropriate. Statesman (the dev, Jack Emmert) said that in a thread on the forums a long, long time ago.
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As for sharing goodies across two accounts... it's called a private SG base.
I have one even though most of my highly-played characters are in Hero Force, which is certainly not my own private SG. (But the Villain Force VG division that I'm in charge of practically is. 
).I move IOs in and out of my private SG base all the time. Last night in fact: I decided it was time to work up a build for my level 32 dark control/fire dom. After I did so, I dug through my base to come up with a Performance Shifter proc and Endurance IO, a Miracle and Numi unique, a five piece set of Devastation, two 4 piece sets of Basilisk's Gaze, and five pieces of Stupefy, and a couple of Luck of the Gambler 7.5% recharge and defense IOs. I think that was it, heh. ^_^ There were other things I'll have to buy, but having a base full of IOs allows me to not only share between two accounts but also IO a character quickly when I want to. I mostly use IOs in the 30-33 range, so I have to plan ahead to make sure I have the kind of IOs that I'm likely to want -- I place lowball bids for things like level 29 Basilisk's Gaze and level 31 or 32 Luck of the Gambler Defense, for example, and then I use a-merits to buy the numi, miracle uniques and LotG 7.5% recharge IOs.
But it's easy to drop stuff off from one account and then pick them up with the other account.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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To be fair, you were never able to store 2500 pieces of invention salvage in those storage bins. In the old days you could store 2500 pieces of base salvage, which was only useful for crafting base items like teleporters. The Devs didn't really care much if base salvage was hoarded, but when they made base salvage obsolete, they changed the bins to hold invention salvage -- but also changed the capacity to 30, since they really would rather people use the market than hoard invention salvage.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You see we used to be able to store 2,500 pieces of salvage in the Base Salvage Bins. The devs decided that our having access to that much storage was a problem that needed to be corrected because we weren't using the bins the way the devs intended for them to be used. So back in issue 13 the devs reduced the amount of salvage we could store in the bins from 2,500 to 30.
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my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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Ever hear that song "there's a hole in the bucket?" Good stuff. And the solution you have proposed (a very good solution!) is the very cause of my problem/complaint/observation I posted about lol. I was trying to transfer all my stuff from a group of Redside Freedom storage bases to a single Blueside Virtue storage base. Redefines tedious.
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Originally Posted by Organica
As for sharing goodies across two accounts... it's called a private SG base.
I have one even though most of my highly-played characters are in Hero Force, which is certainly not my own private SG. (But the Villain Force VG division that I'm in charge of practically is. ). |
Of course you could have left it all there, and only taken what you needed right then.
I have a base on Freedom too. ^_^
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
I keep holding out for the day we get account based storage. No reason not to have this now since every other MMO has this. I am not sure why they are not adding this feature. If the self email would do multiples or it was not annoying as hell I could see keeping it like it is but the devs need to change with times.
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I finally (3 days and hours of what could have been TF time later) got all my I/Os transferred to one centralized location that all my current alts are using.
Seriously, why can they not do ANYthing to make it slightly easier. (even removing the 15 second rule if e-mailing to yourself would be really helpful...)
/YosemiteSam
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I really hate the "single item per email" limit though.| Oooooh I hates that limit! |
There is absolutely no reason to have a limit from your account to your own account, or same account to same account. There may even no longer be a reason for the limit at all.
1) You're not selling anything to yourself.
2) The gold spammers just send a few really high priced items and probably physically trade, which has no limits, instead of email anyway.
I really hate that stupid limit on both how many items per email and the max per day limit.
They are now pointless and just aggravate us.
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How did it stop spam?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
If you recall the Devs added several elements to their "anti-spam" features over the course of many months if not years. In their attempt to make it hard for spammers to spam email I think several of these features now sort of interfere with each other and make some parts of it more annoying than they should be or even obsolete.
Sure the 150 email limit probably makes it hard to do what you're trying to do. But sadly I'm not sure this is the type of thing that would ever change unless the Devs went back the drawing board and redesigned the whole email system from the ground up with better integrated anti-spam countermeasures. You have to figure that the 150 limit probably only negatively affects "legitimate" users a few times a day or even just a few times a week at most. This is not going to be a priority for them by any stretch of the imagination. |
They can still send limitless text-only emails, except they get flagged as a spammer.
We're talking about the item transferring, which spammers have a way around by using physical trade and the unlimited INF cap for a single email.
I don't see how this system even attempted to address the issue of spammers, let alone how it is "good" for any reason.
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The crazy part is that to fill your email with the 20 inbox limit it would take 5 minutes minimum. That adds up if you need to send a lot more.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I finally (3 days and hours of what could have been TF time later) got all my I/Os transferred to one centralized location that all my current alts are using.
Seriously, why can they not do ANYthing to make it slightly easier. (even removing the 15 second rule if e-mailing to yourself would be really helpful...) |
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You do realize that those RMTers sell everything right? Inf, Salvage, Enhancements, Recipes, all of it. They also steal from SG's they can manage to get invited into and access to storage bins. |
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
How did it stop spam?
They can still send limitless text-only emails, except they get flagged as a spammer. |
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| We're talking about the item transferring, which spammers have a way around by using physical trade and the unlimited INF cap for a single email. |
The F2P accounts have an inf cap of 25 million, and they can't send emails.
Premium Accounts don't get an increase to their inf cap until they've acquired 2 reward tokens. Then it goes up to 500 million.
5 reward tokens raises the inf cap for Premiums to 1 billion.
And finally 8 reward tokens raises the cap to 2 billion.
That's a financial investment that RMTer's and spammers are unwilling to make on accounts that are going to be banned as soon as they are caught.
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| I don't see how this system even attempted to address the issue of spammers, let alone how it is "good" for any reason. |
1) Of course I don't know what they sell. I don't use their services. LOL
I thought they only sold the INF and power leveling they spam in chat, but I'm surprised they bother with offering services with the ease of finding a free AE farm even if it takes a little longer than a pay farm, which only uses in game funds.
2) You don't think they're willing to throw $5 at an account to get rid of the worst restrictions and lighten the others so they can make more money?
I've seen them in other games, subscription only, where they pay the subscription to advertise.
Hell, they used to pay the subscription here to farm up the stuff to sell. They still need invention licenses and market licenses.
They're spending money to make money. The restrictions do nothing, especially since they only restrict "those who have in game mail access". Once they reach that point, you have failed to stop them.
3) You don't think they also use hacked/stolen accounts, especially form their paying customers who have handed over their passwords for power leveling services?
They have their ways to get things done.
Seriously, the limits, like a "do not disturb" sign or a simple lock on a rickety old door, only stop the honest and courteous.
The only way to stop spammers is to make it impossible for them to make a profit, by either making it impossible to trade anything from one account to another or making everything so quickly obtainable, and easy by extension, that they can't get customers.
Of course, the ideal solution would be "getting people to stop paying them", but people are not always knowledgeable, smart and/or wary so they keep doing it. Many just care little enough for money that they will throw it at something they can lose completely when they are caught, even suffering punishment.
So, shall we limit the honest people while the dishonest keep going on as usual, destroy the ability to trade or change every person in the world to be honest, smarter and wiser?
Or, shall we lessen the limits on the honest people, police the dishonest(catching them with records and banning them) and try to find a new way to stop the problem without creating a new problem for honest people?
I vote for the latter.
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Last time I checked this was not something we could vote about one way or the other.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Seriously, the limits, like a "do not disturb" sign or a simple lock on a rickety old door, only stop the honest and courteous.
The only way to stop spammers is to make it impossible for them to make a profit, by either making it impossible to trade anything from one account to another or making everything so quickly obtainable, and easy by extension, that they can't get customers. Of course, the ideal solution would be "getting people to stop paying them", but people are not always knowledgeable, smart and/or wary so they keep doing it. Many just care little enough for money that they will throw it at something they can lose completely when they are caught, even suffering punishment. So, shall we limit the honest people while the dishonest keep going on as usual, destroy the ability to trade or change every person in the world to be honest, smarter and wiser? Or, shall we lessen the limits on the honest people, police the dishonest(catching them with records and banning them) and try to find a new way to stop the problem without creating a new problem for honest people? I vote for the latter. |
Obviously the current system in this game does not absolutely prevent anyone who wants to spam email for RMT purposes from doing so. There is no system on the planet that could prevent every abuse like this as long as there's any chance for money to be made - why do you think the constant war between the virus-makers and anti-virus companies is a thriving multi-billion dollar fact of life?
Sadly there is no real way to make things easier for the "honest" people of this game without opening the flood gates to the RMTers. The goal of the Devs has NEVER been to try to stop ALL spamming activities because that's a literal impossibility. Their goal instead is to make things just hard enough for the RMTers to operate so that their negative effects on this game are kept to a bare minimum. That obviously has to be balanced against doing their best to keep their anti-spam measures from impacting the "honest" people as little as possible. I happen to think they are doing a relatively good job balancing those two concerns here.
Sure it would be nice and ideal if people would just collectively "behave" and stop paying RMTers. It would also be nice if the GMs of this game could just silently "police" all the RMTers out of the game without the need for any limits that get in the way of legitimate activities. But these are both pipe-dreams that will never happen in a real MMO like this.
There will always be a need for proactive measure to prevent excesses and exploits. Now obviously there are ways that the Devs of this game can do their job better and I'm not suggesting that this game's anti-spam features are perfect. But their imperfection is NO justification for removing them completely. I would always rather this game have -some- control over spam, even if it occasionally annoys me from time-to-time, than to have NO control over it at all.
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At least some of the restrictions on e-mail have existed since before you could e-mail money or items, I think.
Back then, e-mail was used primarily by RMTers to spam you with e-mails about their services. That was before you could turn off or limit who could e-mail you too.
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I find out the weirdest things about this game, I should get badges for it lol. a little back-story, so no one thinks I am a mad spammer. I played on Freedom for years. I started making characters on Virtue about 6 months ago and it is now my home. I finally decided this weekend to move all the I/Os from my "storage bases" on Freedom to my main Virtue base. This is about as tedious a process as CoH could possibly devise. I was grinding through it when I got the same kind of message you get when "your mailbox cannot hold more than 20 messages", only this one was "you cannot send more than 150 messages in a 24 hour period"
I guess they put this in as a way to stop spammers. Not sure how effective that ever was. But it made a very inconvenient and very time consuming process for me into an extremely inconvenient and extremely time consuming process.
Is there any hope CoH/CoV will ever solve the personal storage issues in this now mature video game world?