I don't like people who failed to research a character properly before taking it, then find out they want to change it on other peoples behalf who basically don't visit the forums.
Somethings have never undergone a change yet despite the suggestions. It's to do with the Cottage Rule.
As a person whose had their Devices since the beginning, learned to play it, likes it being different to all the other Blasters and believes in a Trapping concept for Blasters I am simply going to suggest a Secondary Respec for people who failed to research a character despite the sufficiently adequate resources, who fail and continue to fail in being creative with a set and then just go on failing.
Hopefully it would sell well in the Market and bring in some revenue. It's easy to believe that someone could get from 0-50, and have their tier 4s all within 25hours of playing this game. They could play with their character solo for a bit, team for a bit, and then come here and request changes. So I doubt it would.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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It's not just a kill zone, its a flexibly laid out one with an expiration time that allows you to pretty much do what you need. It's a trapping concept, it's a gadget concept. If they did change it to a drop 3 with almost no interrupt the expiration time could be lost. Overtime I have seen plenty of people love their mines so anything that changes that has to be suitable.
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Originally Posted by Nova Knight
I agree with New Dawn on this. I primarily solo and I'm very happy with Trip Mine the way it is. I enjoy laying down a kill zone and pulling tough opponents into it; it's like having a half-dozen scrappers serving as my own personal bodyguard.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I consider flexibility to be the defining characteristic of Devices. Combining the protection of Cloaking Device with the long duration of Trip Mine, a player can prepare the battlefield as he/she sees fit and engage enemies under circumstances of their own choosing. This means that primaries, secondaries, power pools, epic powers, temporary powers and inspirations can all be optimized to their best effect. If the duration of Trip Mine was shortened, the ripple effect would be significant. That long duration makes all of the above possible.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
It's not just a kill zone, its a flexibly laid out one with an expiration time that allows you to pretty much do what you need. It's a trapping concept, it's a gadget concept.
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Obviously, some people prefer a play style that's more aggressive, and that's fine. But some of us enjoy the challenge of analyzing a particular situation and choosing the right tools from our toolbox to bring victory in a given fight. Trip Mine, in its current configuration, allows us to do that.
I see all these complaints about trip mine, not to be a spelling jackbooted thug but it is spelled time bomb.
If people really are complaining about trip mine, well, you can try to pry them from my hands after you walk through that totally safe narrow corridor.
Let the other secondaries be "run 'n gun". Devices can be the tactical set. Devices *IS* this tactical set.
And the suggestion I posted doesn't change those tactics, but allows others to "run and gun" more with the set.
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Don't assume that everyone who is advocating change just doesn't have enough experience playing devices. I created my fire/dev blaster in issue 4.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
As a person whose had their Devices since the beginning, learned to play it, likes it being different to all the other Blasters and believes in a Trapping concept for Blasters I am simply going to suggest a Secondary Respec for people who failed to research a character despite the sufficiently adequate resources, who fail and continue to fail in being creative with a set and then just go on failing.
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I feel I have to ask, what use is there for a tactical set in team play? I've yet to find a much use on a larger team for my /dev blaster beyond her primary.
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Originally Posted by Ogi
Let the other secondaries be "run 'n gun". Devices can be the tactical set. Devices *IS* this tactical set.
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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I've yet to find much use (outside of TF minimums) of a team on my /dev blaster.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
I've yet to find a much use on a larger team for my /dev blaster beyond her primary.
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Not much can survive a ~4 min stack of trip mines.
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I'm well aware of the soloability of devices. Though I have to say I'm impressed at your ability to take down the AVs on those TFs you solo. No matter how deep I've ever stacked my mines they've only ever made a small dent in an AV's hit points and unfortunately energy blast isn't the pinnacle of single-target DPS.|
Originally Posted by Ogi
I've yet to find much use (outside of TF minimums) of a team on my /dev blaster.
Not much can survive a ~4 min stack of trip mines. |
My question still stands though, how do you contribute to team play with your /dev blaster? Its debuff is a little mediocre, I don't often see much call for caltrops in teams and its two big damage powers are too slow and unwieldy to use efficiently in most combat situations. It's just not that fantastic for teaming and I've just never really had much call to use any of its powers while on a decent one.
I don't think entirely getting rid of the current form of the powers is the way to go either though, but if we could get some sort of Jekyll and Hyde form of the powers like Stalkers do with Assassin's Strike I'd be all for it. In combat you'd have powers that are effective in that situation but do less damage and out of combat you get the nice stackable mines and traditional time bomb.
That is, of course, assuming such a thing is feasible for non-stalkers. Who knows what crazy code goes on behind hide and assassin's strike.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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I have never heard someone try to sound reasonable and come off as arrogant as you have here. I'm not FAILING at being a devices blaster, I just feel the devices blaster needs some work. Furthermore, can you honestly tell me that you'll loose flexibility at "3 mines at once, 3 x the recharge" especially given the recharge is low anyway, AND that you're already placing mini mine fields for the same period of time. It just makes the devices set MORE flexible. It doesn't take away from the old at all. If I am to say anything pertinent to you in particular it's "please don't troll". You may have reasonable threads and replies elsewhere but right now your posts read like you're an ***. Either bring constructive, valid and insightful criticism - other than YOU FAIL HARD LULZ - or don't bring anything at all. Ta.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I don't like people who failed to research a character properly before taking it, then find out they want to change it on other peoples behalf who basically don't visit the forums.
Somethings have never undergone a change yet despite the suggestions. It's to do with the Cottage Rule. As a person whose had their Devices since the beginning, learned to play it, likes it being different to all the other Blasters and believes in a Trapping concept for Blasters I am simply going to suggest a Secondary Respec for people who failed to research a character despite the sufficiently adequate resources, who fail and continue to fail in being creative with a set and then just go on failing. Hopefully it would sell well in the Market and bring in some revenue. It's easy to believe that someone could get from 0-50, and have their tier 4s all within 25hours of playing this game. They could play with their character solo for a bit, team for a bit, and then come here and request changes. So I doubt it would. |
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I can honestly tell you this is an obvious loss in flexibility unless every player that uses /Devices always feels the need to lay three mines in immediate succession.
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Originally Posted by Psiko
Furthermore, can you honestly tell me that you'll loose flexibility at "3 mines at once, 3 x the recharge" especially given the recharge is low anyway...
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When I play in teams with my /Devices blaster I contribute by blasting things. I also use caltrops when teams aren't working with perfect precision and I need some mitigation. I use Taser if foes get near as well, due to it meshing with my Sonics primary.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
My question still stands though, how do you contribute to team play with your /dev blaster? Its debuff is a little mediocre, I don't often see much call for caltrops in teams and its two big damage powers are too slow and unwieldy to use efficiently in most combat situations. It's just not that fantastic for teaming and I've just never really had much call to use any of its powers while on a decent one.
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You're right though, in that /Devices isn't the best set for teaming. That makes the set a less than ideal choice for those that wish to team a great deal, but... not every set has to be a great team set, and not every player wishes to team a great deal.
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| I don't think entirely getting rid of the current form of the powers is the way to go either though, but if we could get some sort of Jekyll and Hyde form of the powers like Stalkers do with Assassin's Strike I'd be all for it. In combat you'd have powers that are effective in that situation but do less damage and out of combat you get the nice stackable mines and traditional time bomb. |
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Trip mine and time bomb function as they currently do while cloaked. While not cloaked the two powers are non-interruptable and deal less damage. Trip mine wouldn't need to be 'tripped' by an enemy and functions like a normal PBAoE and ideally have time bomb work something like omega maneuver, but if not it it'd still be nice to have it work more like normally but with either no or significantly less of a time delay. |
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I ALMOST FORGOT THIS THREAD. OH LOOK I CAN TYPE IN CAPS TOO LULZ.|
Originally Posted by Psiko
I have never heard someone try to sound reasonable and come off as arrogant as you have here. I'm not FAILING at being a devices blaster, I just feel the devices blaster needs some work. Furthermore, can you honestly tell me that you'll loose flexibility at "3 mines at once, 3 x the recharge" especially given the recharge is low anyway, AND that you're already placing mini mine fields for the same period of time. It just makes the devices set MORE flexible. It doesn't take away from the old at all. If I am to say anything pertinent to you in particular it's "please don't troll". You may have reasonable threads and replies elsewhere but right now your posts read like you're an ***. Either bring constructive, valid and insightful criticism - other than YOU FAIL HARD LULZ - or don't bring anything at all. Ta.
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Yeah looks like moron speech to me when people do what we both can do. No Why would I want to drop 3 when I need 1 or 2 or 4 or 5 or 7 or 8? I mean really? When a Dev maps the 3 are they going to be placed in a flexible fashion?
You are the one trying bring something onto a bunch of /Dev players that have had their 7 years and honestly next time before you pick something do your homework.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Dawn's man, git mad kid!
I have a solution. The 3 at once Trip Mine power can still be implimented, and be flexible. Just give it 10 icons instead of 1, like how you get extra power icons when you take swap ammo. This will let you devote AN ENTIRE EXTRA POWER TRAY just to Mines, woo! Make all 10 of them different pattern options, including but not limited to: "All in same spot" "Equilateral Triangle" "Line perpendicular to Line of Sight" and "DoDecaMegaTetratHedron". Also we would impliment new /commands only available to be Devices Blasters. The command /setmineradiusA would allow you to adjust (in game feet) the distance between mines 1 and 2 in the power. Then setmineradiusB would be between 2 and 3, and logically the final command would be setmineradiusC adjusting distance between 3 and 1. Using three extra /commands would in no way be cumbersome, and everyone loves extra power trays. You could even make MACROS to quickset certain mine radius distances that you frequently use, macros are the mark of a pro. This solution will satisfy all parties, unless you think it's "too much work". Devices is about work and setting up minefields, we all love that apparently, don't be stupid.
"Look, personally I just want a new issue to feature changes that don't cause a mass exodus of players..."
Issue 17: We Didn't Break Anything!
How to suck at CoX
Literally the Best Build Ever: Years in the Making
Often people come up with change ideas that can take up a lot of resources and time which do not benefit the rest of the player base at all.
Sometimes you just got to be realistic.
I have every secondary when it comes to Blasters. Often people don't. They see what others have and may feel they are missing out. It's not necessarily the case. There are downsides to everything and it's not like most Blasters are always in a position where it's preferable to rely on the secondary. I use my Primaries most of the time because it makes more sense in teams anyway.
I've seen suggestions repeat themselves over the years. Last big change was Gun Drone and that was a change that exceeded my expectations to a point where now it just feels that I would be acting like some poor little rich kid who want's more.
I am basically happy with the idea of each secondary bringing something different to the table and if anything perhaps setting Timebomb off when you need to, anytime before it's natural expiration is the only "fair" change left.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Yes. |
Originally Posted by Psiko
EDIT: I think the main idea I'm trying to get across is that devices crowning powers are slow and awkward to use, a luxury that blasters traditionally don't have time to humour. *Aside from gun drone as I've been enlightened :P
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It is intentional. Devices plays like no other blaster secondary. It is a strategic set, and can achieve greater solo survivability than just about anything else.
That is a good thing. The last thing I want is for all blasters to play identically with different animations for their powers.
And yes, I have a /Devices. Sonic/Devices to be precise, and I've had it since early 2006. That solo survivability I mentioned? I've gone entire missions without even being targeted by anything, let alone defeated. And it didn't go all that slowly either.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I would hope that whenever Devices gets looked at they don't do anything other than buff numbers for the powers. They all work well as is - Devices is a set that lets you turn the battlefield into your own playground.
Other than Time Bomb (eff that power!) and Gun Drone (mediocre at best). I would support having them completely replaced. Trip Mine works perfectly, in my opinion, though.
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Well said. I have an Assault Rifle / Devices that I absolutely LOVE to play. I feel like a one man army with all the tools at my disposal. He can do things that other Blasters only dream of solo.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Yes.
It is intentional. Devices plays like no other blaster secondary. It is a strategic set, and can achieve greater solo survivability than just about anything else. That is a good thing. The last thing I want is for all blasters to play identically with different animations for their powers. And yes, I have a /Devices. Sonic/Devices to be precise, and I've had it since early 2006. That solo survivability I mentioned? I've gone entire missions without even being targeted by anything, let alone defeated. And it didn't go all that slowly either. |
Trip Mine can be useful on teams, but only when A) pulling and B) you're given the time to set up your mine field. On something like an ITF when you pull Rommy you can do a LOT of damage with the mines... Unless the scrapper gets impatient and pulls a Leeroy.
Devices is very useful, and very powerful. But it's not suited to run and gun. This is why it's best used while solo or when you have people with who you knows how to wait.
just tossing my thoughts in..
Tripmine --> Quick-deploying Mine
Same ol' tripmine, but you can toss it caltrops-distance and it arms itself in half the usual 'setup time'. The interrupt would be quite short, you put your gun away, pull out a mine, hit a few buttons and toss. Make up for any OPness with a longer cooldown or damage reduction.
Timebomb --> Remote Mine
Clicking the power turns it on [like a toggle] and gives you the placement reticule. It is the usual affair setting it up. When you turn the toggle off, or the bomb is killed, BOOM!
Gundrone
TBH, I would just like to see it compare to the malta drones and be on a toggle like the buff pets.
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I don't think changing Trip Mine is a good idea.|
Originally Posted by Freefall
just tossing my thoughts in..
Tripmine --> Quick-deploying Mine Same ol' tripmine, but you can toss it caltrops-distance and it arms itself in half the usual 'setup time'. The interrupt would be quite short, you put your gun away, pull out a mine, hit a few buttons and toss. Make up for any OPness with a longer cooldown or damage reduction. Timebomb --> Remote Mine Clicking the power turns it on [like a toggle] and gives you the placement reticule. It is the usual affair setting it up. When you turn the toggle off, or the bomb is killed, BOOM! Gundrone TBH, I would just like to see it compare to the malta drones and be on a toggle like the buff pets. |
I can kill Elite Bosses in 2 seconds with them. So long as I stack a bunch of them before hand.
10 Trip Mines + Charging EB = Dead EB. A team I was on with was surprised when they saw Marauder (At EB level) charge over a field I laid out and just DROP like a sac of potatoes.
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This part specifically. A bomb that detonates when the user tells it to, via de-activating the toggle. This sounds like a great idea that could make the completely useless Time Bomb into something useful, even if it takes a huge damage nerf over what it currently does.
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Originally Posted by Freefall
Timebomb --> Remote Mine
Clicking the power turns it on [like a toggle] and gives you the placement reticule. It is the usual affair setting it up. When you turn the toggle off, or the bomb is killed, BOOM! |
"Look, personally I just want a new issue to feature changes that don't cause a mass exodus of players..."
Issue 17: We Didn't Break Anything!
How to suck at CoX
Literally the Best Build Ever: Years in the Making
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I do enjoy that very much when using trips. In devices, per the topic, my idea was to make it more run-and-gun friendly...as /devices tends to be. I would never advocate the above change to Traps, as that set is better suited to fortifying.|
Originally Posted by DoctorWhat
I don't think changing Trip Mine is a good idea.
I can kill Elite Bosses in 2 seconds with them. So long as I stack a bunch of them before hand. 10 Trip Mines + Charging EB = Dead EB. A team I was on with was surprised when they saw Marauder (At EB level) charge over a field I laid out and just DROP like a sac of potatoes. |
I do think that your example is actually a problem in another direction, but that is another topic.
All in all it is just a thought, and I would never expect it to come to light given the number of people that would prefer it NOT be changed, like yourself.
The way Dimension Shift works is exactly how I would like to see Time Bomb work. They just add interrupt time, lower the duration and away we go.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I've been making similar suggestions for years now.
With the new additional power bar that was seen on beta, the devs could do all sorts of interesting things.
First, Taser. When the power hits, have a second toggle in this new power bar activate that as long as the user keeps active, the power continues to keep the target stunned.
Targeting Drone should have + range.
Trip Mines, make it a targeted location from range, with a shorter, uninterrupted animation. This way, players can still lay down a field, or while in combat, toss one out into a mob.
It'd be neat if the devs could make it get stuck onto walls, and ceilings so players could knock mobs down, or side ways
Timb Bomb, see the same with Taser, but with this new toggle (at 0 endurance cost) once triggered off, causes it to explode.