Tanker Inherent: Determination
By
AzureSkyCiel,
Posted on: 2012-03-21 13:07 in Suggestions and Ideas
Eh, seems rather meh to me. And leaning toward power creep.
And before anyone posts on the idea about the +dmg cap thing, it may be possible. Fly speed has a cap that can only be surpassed using Afterburner, I believe. May work for damage enhancement. And the +radius on Gauntlet could work similar to Domination in that, it adds an alternate effect mez, so your attacks would have 2 AoE taunts with different areas, one small without your buff and one big while your buff is active.
Some inherents to Tankers I'd probably prefer more:
Gauntlet +
Boosts the range and target cap of your AoEs above other melees...because Tankers are focused on big, heavy and showy powers. This would vary set by set; AoE heavy sets might get tiny bumps to target caps and/or radius while AoE-lite sets would get those fewer AoEs rocking hard.
Bruising Gauntlet
Basically, every tanker primary attack has a chance to cause bruising. Only 1 stack per attack (so you can't stack a whole bunch from the tier 1 but you can stack the debuff from tier 1, 2 and 3 together). Tier 1 has a 100% chance while the higher you go, the less chance for bruising.
[Insert Cool Name]
Something that trades your abundance of HP and self preservation and convert it into high amounts of damage somehow. Or perhaps help to preserve teammates by shielding them (taking damage in someone's place or sharing their damage + your own).
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Blech.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Some inherents to Tankers I'd probably prefer more:
Gauntlet + Boosts the range and target cap of your AoEs above other melees...because Tankers are focused on big, heavy and showy powers. This would vary set by set; AoE heavy sets might get tiny bumps to target caps and/or radius while AoE-lite sets would get those fewer AoEs rocking hard. |
I'd just like to see Tankers resist "unresistable" damage, and have a higher aggro cap. And maybe be all-but-functionally-unable to lose aggro.
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I was gonna suggest something about an increased aggro-cap, and the ability to resist some of that 'unresistable' damage would be a nice boon too.
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Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
Blech.
I'd just like to see Tankers resist "unresistable" damage, and have a higher aggro cap. And maybe be all-but-functionally-unable to lose aggro. |
Meh, to that. Brutes can keep their Fury. Because, let's be honest, this is nothing but a Fury rip.
Give us more res and more def. We're Tankers, it's what we do.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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NAAAAHHHHH!
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Well, my proposal to buff tankers has been a passive sort of self buff aura that grants additional resistance to various Debuffs such as recharge, damage, tohit, and possibly defense, regen, recovery, etc.
This would mean that while one can completely mob a tank, they really have to fight through all those defenses and NPC mobs won't beable to debuff your armors into oblivion.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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[Tanker's Bodyguard]|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
[Insert Cool Name]
Something that trades your abundance of HP and self preservation and convert it into high amounts of damage somehow. Or perhaps help to preserve teammates by shielding them (taking damage in someone's place or sharing their damage + your own). |
By standing near allies you use the same aspect used in the [Mastermind's Bodyguard] inherent to take a portion of damage from your team-mate to yourself, giving the best impression in-game to actually protecting a team-mate. In case the Tanker's using defense-heavy sets, they could use their own defense to hit-check whether the portion they receive actually hurts them. Though this would need some closer looking into because if you have a lot of allies next to you and an AoE hits, could be bad news for a Tanker. On the upside, such an inherent would make a Tanker useful as a defensive PBAoE, squishes could use them to stay safer in combat and provide a service that brutes do not.
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The only reason the +damage was added...is because it promotes a certain playstyle that a lot of Tankers do not have.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Meh, to that. Brutes can keep their Fury. Because, let's be honest, this is nothing but a Fury rip.
Give us more res and more def. We're Tankers, it's what we do. |
Fury almost inherently makes Brutes better tanks because (even if saving your team is not your goal) you're wanting to be the first to attack and gain the most aggro.
They are quicker to the next group because Fury inherently gives them something to lose if they sit and wait.
That being said...my main point of this suggestion was the added taunting. At this point...a Brute with the same build as a Tanker...and the same playstyle...will win out on taunting enemies by the higher damage.
"Let's be honest"...when you're on a team with buffers...the only difference between a Brute and a Tanker (with the same build)...is the damage output.
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This is why Tankers need higher caps than Brutes.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
The only reason the +damage was added...is because it promotes a certain playstyle that a lot of Tankers do not have.
Fury almost inherently makes Brutes better tanks because (even if saving your team is not your goal) you're wanting to be the first to attack and gain the most aggro. They are quicker to the next group because Fury inherently gives them something to lose if they sit and wait. That being said...my main point of this suggestion was the added taunting. At this point...a Brute with the same build as a Tanker...and the same playstyle...will win out on taunting enemies by the higher damage. "Let's be honest"...when you're on a team with buffers...the only difference between a Brute and a Tanker (with the same build)...is the damage output. |
Either that or Brutes need to be nerfed (probably the easier and more warranted solution).
Failing that, just buff Tanker damage to address the disparity between Brute survival/damage and Tank survival/damage, and increase threat level and/or the effects of Gauntlet to make them aggro kings.
I know we like to say IOs aren't taken into account when balancing ATs, but shouldn't an AT's potential with IOs be taken into account at the very least? Brutes can deal far more damage than Tankers with only a minimal (and usually irrelevant) disparity in survivability when built properly.
I really like the idea of Gauntlet +, providing increased AoE capability, but this seems like something that would need to be addressed on a per-powerset basis.
Even though the idea of giving Tankers old Defiance sounds tempting on paper, I don't think it's a good idea ultimately because it really doesn't help the Tanker do his job more effectively and rewards them for taking a lot of damage, something that arguably could reward "bad" or reckless playstyle or have disparate effects on different sets (Granite Armor tanks for example would get very little use out of it in most situations, while a WP taking the alpha would get far more use out of it).
Tankers are probably one of the hardest nuts to crack with regard to improving them. Maybe that's because there really isn't anything terribly wrong with Tankers (aside from Gauntlet being kind of lame especially considering Brutes get their own version of it), except that they're just completely overshadowed by Brutes, who can do almost as good a job, if not (in some cases), arguably just as good, at tanking while simultaneously outputting a lot more damage.
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I'd say there's a big disparity in survivability (solo wise) when it comes to sets such as ELA, DA, and FA, basically Resist sets. Where an equally build Tanker just has better resists than the Brute.|
Originally Posted by Not_Rhino
I know we like to say IOs aren't taken into account when balancing ATs, but shouldn't an AT's potential with IOs be taken into account at the very least? Brutes can deal far more damage than Tankers with only a minimal (and usually irrelevant) disparity in survivability when built properly.
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Still like the idea of raising Tanker's enhanceable damage (so they have to build for it). Lowering Brutes max Resist to 85% also a good idea (and one that shouldnt have been abandoned in GR Beta).
Though having a Tanker able to generate more threat than the Shield Scrapper would be nice too
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It's an interesting idea, but as it is, it would be largely useless (and even bad in some situations) to a lot of tankers. I can't speak for the population at large, but I know on my tanks I make a habit of grabbing the enemies attention and positioning myself *away* from the team, so they don't get hit with AoEs.|
Originally Posted by Oneirohero
[Tanker's Bodyguard]
By standing near allies you use the same aspect used in the [Mastermind's Bodyguard] inherent to take a portion of damage from your team-mate to yourself, giving the best impression in-game to actually protecting a team-mate. In case the Tanker's using defense-heavy sets, they could use their own defense to hit-check whether the portion they receive actually hurts them. Though this would need some closer looking into because if you have a lot of allies next to you and an AoE hits, could be bad news for a Tanker. On the upside, such an inherent would make a Tanker useful as a defensive PBAoE, squishes could use them to stay safer in combat and provide a service that brutes do not. |
Don't get me wrong, I could see it being useful on Fire Armor tanks or other such offensive builds (assuming the transferred damage from nearby allies didn't spike kill the tank), but I can see a lot of people not getting use out of that inherent at all.
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I can also see it being very dangerous for many Tankers, whether just because they're not "properly built" or they just can't survive it pre-50. It might be a cool idea to add as an option, similar to how Masterminds can choose to use it or not.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
It's an interesting idea, but as it is, it would be largely useless (and even bad in some situations) to a lot of tankers. I can't speak for the population at large, but I know on my tanks I make a habit of grabbing the enemies attention and positioning myself *away* from the team, so they don't get hit with AoEs.
Don't get me wrong, I could see it being useful on Fire Armor tanks or other such offensive builds (assuming the transferred damage from nearby allies didn't spike kill the tank), but I can see a lot of people not getting use out of that inherent at all. |
Determination would be a generating bar...that is a mix of Fury and Domination...in a way.
The Determination bar would be generated by attacking and being attacked.
The Determination bar would grant +damage and +threat...and +radius on gauntlet (if possible)
Max Determination would be around a 30% damage buff and a TBD threat buff.
Determination would also come with a "This Ends Now"...click power....that can be activated whenever Determination is over 80% or 85%.
This Ends Now grants +acc/+dam/+dam cap that lasts for a TBD amount of time.
However...when This Ends Now wears off (however long it lasts)...it will lock you out of Determination generation for a certain amount of time.
(Determination would continue generating as usual if you never click This Ends Now)