I suppose the short answer is play an ice/ff controller.
My point being, not all trollers will do good damage certainly not the level of a troller built for damage plant/fire kin/storm/rad/trick. For years dark/dark on a defender was very safe...but not amazingly fast, I don't think controllers will really break the mold in that regard.
Secondary aside creepers beat haunt aoe and I've heard umbral is broke, plant has a better immobilize, and you're also getting a fair amount of damage from confuse.
my dark dark is pretty heavy dmg, for one i dont use procs so heavily i use them if i have a set bonus to get in specific set but i usually dont use procs all that much
i still need to find some time to make a build for him this week but his dmg output will be pretty awesome if i throw in a dom ATO into midnight grasp
Quote:
Well yes, of course a dark/dark dominator, whose secondary is all about doing damage, does more damage than a dark/dark controller, whose secondary is all about debuffs and stuff.
|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
my dark dark is pretty heavy dmg, for one i dont use procs so heavily i use them if i have a set bonus to get in specific set but i usually dont use procs all that much
i still need to find some time to make a build for him this week but his dmg output will be pretty awesome if i throw in a dom ATO into midnight grasp |
Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny
Quote:
my bad, maybe that will teach me to not post things 5 min after i get out of bed lol (just now noticed this was the troller forum and not the dom forum lol)
|
Originally Posted by Pinny
Well yes, of course a dark/dark dominator, whose secondary is all about doing damage, does more damage than a dark/dark controller, whose secondary is all about debuffs and stuff.
|
Quote:
Right there is your answer.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
What's the deal? My Plant/Kin by comparison is a damage monster -- Fulcrum Shifted Roots, Stranger, and Creepers. Plus Earth APP for Seismic Smash, Fissure.
|
To begin, Plant's immobilizes do twice the damage of the standard immobilize; that's more bonus damage than Fire Cages. Secondly, the Shades are no comparison to Creepers in terms of damage; they cycle a single damaging attack and a damageless fear. Creepers, on the other hand, are bringing damage from two Vines attacks and the AoE immobilize in the bramble itself. To top things off, you'll have Seeds of Confusion expediting enemy defeats.
Finally, you've got Fulcrum Shift vs. Tar Patch. Though FS only buffs base damage and TP's -res will buff all damage, it doesn't take a long time for the stacks of +20% damage to overcome the -30% res that TP provides.
Quote:
Plant is a bit of an AOE monster anyway, especially with procs in creepers and the immob. Add Kin to the mix and it's always going to be impressive.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
So I leveled up a Dark/Dark on 2xp.
I am scratching my head on the damage. Where is it? I have clouded senses negative proc in Shades, along with 3 dmg IOs I have 4 procs in Living Shadows -- clouded senses / posi blast / trap hunter / and the intro IO proc. When it hits, I usually see procs of 42-72. Maybe two of 72. Wolfie has 3 dmg IOs and I think a clouded sense proc. ST hold only has basilik atm due to slots. What's the deal? My Plant/Kin by comparison is a damage monster -- Fulcrum Shifted Roots, Stranger, and Creepers. Plus Earth APP for Seismic Smash, Fissure. |
Dark is an upper-mid level in terms of damage but a lot of it is single target (namely the pets) so it's not too surprising you're finding it lagging behind. It should be a fair bit sturdier than plant/kin though. especially comparing Kin to Dark.
Quote:
Ah, ok. At least you all are confirming what I am seeing. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Plant is a bit of an AOE monster anyway, especially with procs in creepers and the immob. Add Kin to the mix and it's always going to be impressive.
Dark is an upper-mid level in terms of damage but a lot of it is single target (namely the pets) so it's not too surprising you're finding it lagging behind. It should be a fair bit sturdier than plant/kin though. especially comparing Kin to Dark. |
My Plant/Kin is extremely sturdy due to (1) AOE confuse (they don't shoot back); (2) 45%+ S/L def (earth APP); (3) higher HP (perma earth's embrace). I suppose dark gets you there with the -to hit. Not sure it's a fair trade though.
In today's game I'm just not sure who needs a mainly controlly controller. I guess I'll see.
It also sounded like you were comparing a completed, possibly incarnate level 50 to something below that. If your plant/kin has APP damage powers and your dark/dark does not... That's going to make a difference in their damage.
Keep in mind that the Umbral Beast is also bugged and stuck in "defensive mode"; damage should go up when the Beta patch goes live and it become more aggressive.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Quote:
Dark gets you there with quite a few tools. And two of the points you mention above apply to dark as well, a dark can use the earth App too. Plus when you come to fighting at incarnate levels that -to hit and the pet which heals in your secondary are very useful, to both you and your team / league.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Ah, ok. At least you all are confirming what I am seeing.
My Plant/Kin is extremely sturdy due to (1) AOE confuse (they don't shoot back); (2) 45%+ S/L def (earth APP); (3) higher HP (perma earth's embrace). I suppose dark gets you there with the -to hit. Not sure it's a fair trade though. In today's game I'm just not sure who needs a mainly controlly controller. I guess I'll see. |
It's basically swings and roundabouts, especially on a large team. You are trading damage for more varied control and debuffs, and things like Tar Patch work well even if you have a kin or more darks on the team.
Quote:
That is true but Fulcrum Shifted creepers always was 100% awesome, even before incarnates, and even proc'd out creepers (before Fulcrum) was pretty awesome. |
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It also sounded like you were comparing a completed, possibly incarnate level 50 to something below that. If your plant/kin has APP damage powers and your dark/dark does not... That's going to make a difference in their damage.
|
I took Fire Blast / Fire Ball on the dark/dark but it lacks shall we say "punch" compared to Fulcrum-Shifted Fissure / Seismic.
EVERYTHING compared to something that is fulcrum shifted lacks punch in comparison. 
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Fulcrum is just awesome, there's nothing Dark has to offer to compare. It's Kinetics main trick and best power by a long shot (and remember Seismic is the heaviest hitting power available to controllers full stop).|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
That is true but Fulcrum Shifted creepers always was 100% awesome, even before incarnates, and even proc'd out creepers (before Fulcrum) was pretty awesome.
I took Fire Blast / Fire Ball on the dark/dark but it lacks shall we say "punch" compared to Fulcrum-Shifted Fissure / Seismic. |
Creepers are also one power which is made ridiculously awesome once the two main procs are in there, because they have a chance to proc with every attack the creepers makes (both the vines and the AOE bramble thingies which spawn around corpses).
So yeah, you're just not going to find much to compare to a suped up Plant/kin, especially against lots and lots of enemies, it's a bit of an outlier in terms of damage.
So I leveled up a Dark/Dark on 2xp.
I am scratching my head on the damage. Where is it?
I have clouded senses negative proc in Shades, along with 3 dmg IOs
I have 4 procs in Living Shadows -- clouded senses / posi blast / trap hunter / and the intro IO proc. When it hits, I usually see procs of 42-72. Maybe two of 72.
Wolfie has 3 dmg IOs and I think a clouded sense proc.
ST hold only has basilik atm due to slots.
What's the deal? My Plant/Kin by comparison is a damage monster -- Fulcrum Shifted Roots, Stranger, and Creepers. Plus Earth APP for Seismic Smash, Fissure.