At non crazy levels of recharge I am doing for StJ what I posted in the Pylon thread: AS-CS (to open) SB-HB-SC-SB-AS-CU (repeat)
Ricodah has a higher recharge StJ chain on his /SR
You also have to calculate the chances of those three attacks giving assassins focus and average out the critical damage. Anyway, for staff with -res procs it seems to be:
MB-PS-AS-SS
These are not much lower:
PS-GS-AS-SS
SR-PS-AS-SS
SR-MB-AS-SS
MB-GS-AS-SS
This one is significantly lower:
PS-SR-AS-SS
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My planned attack chain for my KM/EA stalker (once enhancement converters go live so I can actually IO it) will be:
AS>CS>BU>SB>BB>Repeat
AS with the stalker ATO to trigger hidden CS for auto recharge BU. CS needs quite alot of recharge however.
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I'm playing up a new KM stalker simply because that chain exists. I also ended up selecting /EA because I liked it's endurance tools.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
My planned attack chain for my KM/EA stalker (once enhancement converters go live so I can actually IO it) will be:
AS>CS>BU>SB>BB>Repeat AS with the stalker ATO to trigger hidden CS for auto recharge BU. CS needs quite alot of recharge however. |
I'm having trouble calculating the chain because I honestly don't have good information on non-hidden AS.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Quote:
Are you sure on those?|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
You also have to calculate the chances of those three attacks giving assassins focus and average out the critical damage. Anyway, for staff with -res procs it seems to be:
MB-PS-AS-SS These are not much lower: PS-GS-AS-SS SR-PS-AS-SS SR-MB-AS-SS MB-GS-AS-SS This one is significantly lower: PS-SR-AS-SS |
Mercuial Blow last I checked did less DPS than Precision Strike and Serpent's Reach had better DPS and is more likely to stack Assassin Focus.
If memory serves (and it could be wrong) I could swear MB only came off as being good for Tankers who can slot the -Resist Proc AND it comes with Bruising for additional -Resist.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Right on. Pretty much the same reasons I decided to roll km/ea. That and 100% crit Burst makes the aoe quite passable, especially for a stalker.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I'm playing up a new KM stalker simply because that chain exists. I also ended up selecting /EA because I liked it's endurance tools.
I'm having trouble calculating the chain because I honestly don't have good information on non-hidden AS. |
At the moment my CS is recharging in 5.28s which is the exact amount of recharge needed to pull off the chain after/if they balance the Stalker AS animations to 1s/1.188 arcanatime. Until then though it's pretty difficult to make the chain gapless, as it would require CS to recharge in about 4.92s (using 0.83 for AS), which I can't find a way to do without giving up Musculature for a recharge Alpha which would probably be a dps loss even if it did make it gapless.
Does that chain really provide the best DPS? I figure Build Up wastes a lot of dps with its animation time? Wouldn't maybe
AS-CS-SB-BU-BB-SB
be better?
In fact, I just mathed it up:
All attacks have ED capped damage, Smashing Blow has a hecatomb proc.
AS-CS-BU-BB-SB: 181.98 DPS, 298% recharge needed
AS-CS-SB-BU-BB-SB: 184.48 DPS, 209% recharge needed
PLUS that ignores the higher chance for 3 stacks of Assassin's Focus
I use
Soaring Dragon>Gamblers>Falling Lotus>AS
for my Katana. Chuck -res in Soaring and gamblers. Guaranteed crit Soaring and AS
On my StJ/Nin stalker I'm currently running with this (starting in hide, using Build Up whenever it refreshes). AS has the ATO set, Initial Strike has the Hecatomb proc, and Shin Breaker has Achilles Heel:
Crushing Uppercut --> Initial Strike --> Shin Breaker --> Initial Strike --> Assassin's Strike --> Spinning Strike/Crushing Uppercut (alternating)
By the time I use AS it almost always has full focus for the guaranteed critical, plus with the ATO proc I drop instantly into hide. This sets me up for a critical/fully combo'd Spinning Strike or Crushing Uppercut (depending on whether I want AOE or ST).
I almost never assassinate from hide anymore since Crushing Uppercut does nearly the same critical damage and is instant. With this chain I can solo a Rikti Pylon in 3 minutes 52 seconds (no inspirations or pets). I was also able to drop Heavy Blow and Sweeping Cross in lieu of other goodies. I even dropped Placate since AS and CU always critical anyway.
The only thing that trips it up is the hide delay associated with Stalker's Guile, but hopefully that will get resolved at some point.
The Grim Saint - Virtueverse [1323 Badges]
Quote:
Assuming I calculated average -res correctly, I'm pretty sure. Feel free to check me and we can compare. Most of those chains should be quite close to each other though.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Are you sure on those?
Mercuial Blow last I checked did less DPS than Precision Strike and Serpent's Reach had better DPS and is more likely to stack Assassin Focus. If memory serves (and it could be wrong) I could swear MB only came off as being good for Tankers who can slot the -Resist Proc AND it comes with Bruising for additional -Resist. |
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Quote:
Build Up never wastes DPS. Never. Yes it's using animation time instead of direct damage, but it's buffing damage of all the attacks after it and giving enough of a bonus to damage that it's never wasted.|
Originally Posted by Motley_Cruel
Does that chain really provide the best DPS? I figure Build Up wastes a lot of dps with its animation time? Wouldn't maybe
AS-CS-SB-BU-BB-SB be better? |
For Stalkers, that's an 80% buff to damage for 10 seconds for 1.32 seconds of animation time.
I really have no idea where the idea of BU lowering DPS came from.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I'd have to do some seruious rechecking as I can't find where I left my notes on the chains, or maybe I just forgot to save them.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Assuming I calculated average -res correctly, I'm pretty sure. Feel free to check me and we can compare. Most of those chains should be quite close to each other though.
|
However, doing a quick check, PS's DPS advantage doesn't seem to be that far ahead of MB of PS, that putting MB to use with a -Resist Proc might turn out to be better, than PS with a damage proc (assuming the rest of their slotting is equal).
That all said, still going with PS over MB as while MB had multiple animations, I wasn't impressed with any of them compared to PS's animation.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Do those chains calculate that BU is still going to be lasting into the next chain?|
Originally Posted by Motley_Cruel
In fact, I just mathed it up:
All attacks have ED capped damage, Smashing Blow has a hecatomb proc. AS-CS-BU-BB-SB: 181.98 DPS, 298% recharge needed AS-CS-SB-BU-BB-SB: 184.48 DPS, 209% recharge needed PLUS that ignores the higher chance for 3 stacks of Assassin's Focus |
For the first chain (AS>CS>BU>SB>BB) BU will be always be affecting BB, AS, and CS. SB will always be benefitting from double BU (160%), and depending if BU eats up it's own duration (something I can't recall right now, would love if someone could comment on if it does or not) it will also be double buffing BB at 160%.
So looking at it with numbers from my build:
(using 399.6 damage on AS (enhanced with 3 dmg IOs, since I don't know exact numbers for unhidden AS crit and a 0.83 (it's animation is 0.67, so I'm using the 0.83 brawl for arcanatime) animation)
AS(+80%)>CS(+80%)>BU>SB(+160%)>BB(+160%)= 1905.4 dmg over 7.958s or 239.432 dps
Using your chain (and switching my hecatombs from CS to SB) of:
AS(+80%)>CS(+80%)>SB(+80%)>BU>BB(+160%)>SB(+80%)= 2173 dmg over 9.41s or 230.925
My chain stays on top because it gets double BU on SB and BB instead of just BB. If BU eats it's own duration on initial use then neither chain would get double BU on BB, but my chain would still get double BU on SB.
With all the recent chatter over SBE Procs, I respec'd one of my Stalkers in to Blaze Mastery Char and loaded it up with procs. 2 psi dmg procs, +mag 2 proc, chance to build up. The 2 dmg procs and mag 2 triggered every time and the build up triggered about 50% of the time. It was a beautiful sight to behold.
Char is a 1.07 activation time power so if you're looking for something to fill in a slight gap, this might be an option.
Currently on Virtue:
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If you AS from hide -- assuming the ATO proc in AS -- your next attack also will crit, guaranteed. |
Originally Posted by Grim Saint
I almost never assassinate from hide anymore since Crushing Uppercut does nearly the same critical damage and is instant.
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BU - AS (from hide = crit) - CU (guarnteed crit under BU effect) is a BEAUTIFUL THING.
Talk about burst!
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Meh. You can get 3 crits in that span by starting out with a high powered attack (in this case, CU), eventually a focused AS crit + whatever after thanks to the ATO proc. In that case, beauty is only skin deep. All the orange numbers will pop up closer together but it'll take longer and add up to less...
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
If you AS from hide -- assuming the ATO proc in AS -- your next attack also will crit, guaranteed.
BU - AS (from hide = crit) - CU (guarnteed crit under BU effect) is a BEAUTIFUL THING. Talk about burst! |
Quote:
Falling Lotus?
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Originally Posted by Dz131
I use
Soaring Dragon>Gamblers>Falling Lotus>AS for my Katana. Chuck -res in Soaring and gamblers. Guaranteed crit Soaring and AS |
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Quote:
Can you post your build?
|
Originally Posted by Grim Saint
On my StJ/Nin stalker
With this chain I can solo a Rikti Pylon in 3 minutes 52 seconds (no inspirations or pets). I was also able to drop Heavy Blow and Sweeping Cross in lieu of other goodies. I even dropped Placate since AS and CU always critical anyway. |
They (Grim Saint) posted it in my ramblings thread as an example endgame StJ/Nin.
Quote:
If you do get double build-up on a power.. i'd use build up just before the AS (which i believe should also critical)... not before SB.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Do those chains calculate that BU is still going to be lasting into the next chain?
For the first chain (AS>CS>BU>SB>BB) BU will be always be affecting BB, AS, and CS. SB will always be benefitting from double BU (160%), and depending if BU eats up it's own duration (something I can't recall right now, would love if someone could comment on if it does or not) it will also be double buffing BB at 160%. So looking at it with numbers from my build: (using 399.6 damage on AS (enhanced with 3 dmg IOs, since I don't know exact numbers for unhidden AS crit and a 0.83 (it's animation is 0.67, so I'm using the 0.83 brawl for arcanatime) animation) AS(+80%)>CS(+80%)>BU>SB(+160%)>BB(+160%)= 1905.4 dmg over 7.958s or 239.432 dps Using your chain (and switching my hecatombs from CS to SB) of: AS(+80%)>CS(+80%)>SB(+80%)>BU>BB(+160%)>SB(+80%)= 2173 dmg over 9.41s or 230.925 My chain stays on top because it gets double BU on SB and BB instead of just BB. If BU eats it's own duration on initial use then neither chain would get double BU on BB, but my chain would still get double BU on SB. |
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Quote:
I was about to say that wouldn't work outside of an opening attack chain, but I see what you're saying. When I was thinking of the attack chain for some reason I thought I would be wanting to use BU immediately after CS, but I guess it doesn't matter as long as you're using BU before the next CS, and putting it before AS would grant an extra 80% on both AS and CS. Will have to work out how much extra dps that will give later though.
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Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
If you do get double build-up on a power.. i'd use build up just before the AS (which i believe should also critical)... not before SB.
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Quote:
Translation: Lotus Drop.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Falling Lotus?
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Query: How? Stalkers don't get the PBAoE attack, Lotus Drop...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
So looking at it with numbers from my build:
(using 399.6 damage on AS (enhanced with 3 dmg IOs, since I don't know exact numbers for unhidden AS crit and a 0.83 (it's animation is 0.67, so I'm using the 0.83 brawl for arcanatime) animation) AS(+80%)>CS(+80%)>BU>SB(+160%)>BB(+160%)= 1905.4 dmg over 7.958s or 239.432 dps Using your chain (and switching my hecatombs from CS to SB) of: AS(+80%)>CS(+80%)>SB(+80%)>BU>BB(+160%)>SB(+80%)= 2173 dmg over 9.41s or 230.925 |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
If you do get double build-up on a power.. i'd use build up just before the AS (which i believe should also critical)... not before SB.
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BU>AS(160%)>CS(160%)>SB(80%)>BB(80%) = 2057 dmg over 7.958s or 258.482 dps, which is a 19 dps increase.
Things to note:
-AS and CS will always benefit from double BU, even when/if AS is balanced with other AS to a 1s animation(1.188 arcana).
-If BU's buff is being eaten by it's own animation it will be 0.108s off from double buffing CS in it's current state (before any AS animation changes), so unless it eats anything other than it's entire duration it will double buff CS. Again I would really appreciate anyone that could comment on whether this is true or not.
-The damage AS is using (same with the other chains listed above) is just using the 152.9 base damage listed in mids, Crit AS in game will be doing more damage. If someone has the exact numbers that would also be appreciated.
What with the new AS, the ATO Proc, and the addition of Assassin's Focus, it seems pretty much every set will have new optimal DPS chains. With this many variables, it seems really hard to optimize, so if anyone thinks they have the math skills to pull it off, I'd love some definitive answers.
Theoretically a perfect attack chain will:
Leverage AS as much as possible, while still getting 3 attacks between every AS
Place its best Damage attack right after AS for the guaranteed crit