Quote:
Well, I'm not sure though if it's actually a bug in-game or just a CoD display issue. I'm inclined to think it's not a display issue though, since so many of the pre-Demons pet powers are set up correctly, with only a handful of powers not following the same pattern.|
Originally Posted by blueruckus
All of the attacks have the 'ignores range buffs' flag. I noticed that a lot of demon summoning attacks show the same as well. I get the feeling that this maybe is supposed to be recharge and not range? Otherwise, I'm sure someone would've stumbled upon this long ago since DS has been out for almost 2 yrs now. Should be able to test this easily on an RWZ dummy though.
|
Here's how it looks like it's supposed to be, based on the way the older sets look:
Any ranged ability pets have is supposed to be flagged "Not affected by RechargeTime buffs/debuffs."
This is to prevent the pets from spamming or ignoring specific powers because of recharge speeds.
Any melee ability pets have is supposed to be flagged "Not affected by RechargeTime buffs/debuffs" and "Not affected by Range buffs/debuffs."
This is also to prevent the pets from spamming or ignoring specific powers because of recharge speeds, and also to prevent their melee abilities from having their range decreased to a point where it's impossible to use them (same with most melee attacks in the game).
Only Demons and Beasts seem to stray from this on nearly every power the pets have.
Quote:
Really? Then why have I not ever seen this happen to my BM pets not even once in 20 levels of play so far?|
Originally Posted by Reppu
You did not understand anything. There is a legitimate bug right now where Defensive and Passive pets, once you zone into a mission, have been noted to randomly charge off. AND. PASSIVE.
|
The only thing I have seen even remotely similar to this is Tsoo Caltrops. They drive my BM pets insane. They run off (somewhere) and might come back if I spam the Attack key or the Follow key. They do eventually come back though, even if I do nothing to call them. I'm not seeing them randomly target and attack something way across the map, though.
But then again, I never seemed to have this supposed problem with mobs instantly running away when you attack them, either. Some people thought that was a huge deal too. Clearly, YMMV, probably based on the amount of hyperbole in the claim.
Quote:
CatCat!|
Originally Posted by NekoNeko
Really? Then why have I not ever seen this happen to my BM pets not even once in 20 levels of play so far?
The only thing I have seen even remotely similar to this is Tsoo Caltrops. They drive my BM pets insane. They run off (somewhere) and might come back if I spam the Attack key or the Follow key. They do eventually come back though, even if I do nothing to call them. I'm not seeing them randomly target and attack something way across the map, though. But then again, I never seemed to have this supposed problem with mobs instantly running away when you attack them, either. Some people thought that was a huge deal too. Clearly, YMMV, probably based on the amount of hyperbole in the claim. |
Then maybe you're lucky, or all the reports are false. Either way, your power set is bad and ruined global pet and Lore Pet AI.
Really, since you've said that I have visited all of my MMs (quite a substantial number) and encountered none of the stated problems. So either the reports are false, overly exaggerated, nonexistent, or I am a unique and special person for having none of my MMs screw up.
Also, none of the (many) MMs I've run with have said anything about the supposed problem. So I guess they are all unique and special people too.
Quote:
Since you keep on insisting this...|
Originally Posted by Reppu
...Either way, your power set is bad and ruined global pet and Lore Pet AI.
|
If there is this new bug for pets (and I have heard others mention it, especially with Umbra Beast), it is a bug that could have been caused by a great number of things and there is no reason to assume that Beast Mastery caused it.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
What are you trying to accomplish here? Getting someone to understand the difference between causal and coincidental relationships? That way lies madness.
|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Since you keep on insisting this...
If there is this new bug for pets (and I have heard others mention it, especially with Umbra Beast), it is a bug that could have been caused by a great number of things and there is no reason to assume that Beast Mastery caused it. |
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Quote:
Rather than dismiss Reppu's claims, you may wish to take a 50 MM into the incarnate trials with pets on Passive, and watch them aggro Maelstrom, Malaise, Seige and other hijinx. I did 4 trials last night on my 53 bots/ff with pets on passive, and since they did the last patch (correcting the Tutorial bug with the same behavior), my pets have been replicating that same buggy tutorial behavior.'|
Originally Posted by NekoNeko
Really? Then why have I not ever seen this happen to my BM pets not even once in 20 levels of play so far?
The only thing I have seen even remotely similar to this is Tsoo Caltrops. They drive my BM pets insane. They run off (somewhere) and might come back if I spam the Attack key or the Follow key. They do eventually come back though, even if I do nothing to call them. I'm not seeing them randomly target and attack something way across the map, though. But then again, I never seemed to have this supposed problem with mobs instantly running away when you attack them, either. Some people thought that was a huge deal too. Clearly, YMMV, probably based on the amount of hyperbole in the claim. |
There is a problem, and it has been reported by other MMs. May your BM pets not suffer the same fate, I'm happy for you. But don't be dismissive of others. It may be related to BM, or not, but lets recall the impact that DS AI had on the rest of MM primaries.
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
Quote:
I'm curious Grim, did you try to run them through any trials? If you can, take one of them through TPN, BAF or MoM. My passive pets run off and aggro at the following points:|
Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Really, since you've said that I have visited all of my MMs (quite a substantial number) and encountered none of the stated problems. So either the reports are false, overly exaggerated, nonexistent, or I am a unique and special person for having none of my MMs screw up.
Also, none of the (many) MMs I've run with have said anything about the supposed problem. So I guess they are all unique and special people too. |
BAF - seige spawns. They race across the map. Goto makes them race back momentarily before they retarget Seige, then die. They are on passive since we loaded the map. Same thing happens when NS spawns. They seem fine during prisoner phase.
TPN - fine until Maelstrom spawns outside, they they immediately target him and race off. IN passive, again.
MoM - first map outside the hospital, pets on passive, load up, they race off and attack Malaise. Penelope Yin map, soon as I load, they race off to attack Penny.
These are not usual behaviors (even for MM pets with their wonky AI). I have multiple MMs as my preferred characters since CoV launched, and I'm very famiilar with the care and handling of pets. I've been running trials with MMs since BAF and LAM opened. This is definitely something new.
It reminds me of the recently-fixed tutorial bug, where upon summoning, the MM pet would run off to aggro shivans and engage in back and forth pathing behavior.
I know this thread is about Beast secondaries, so I'll stop here, but I did want to address that this (for me) seems to be a iTrial issue, not a general gameplay issue (and hence, related to how pets respond to AV attacks/auras/etc).
In case it wasnt' clear, I always run pets in Passive mode (I don't rely on BG mode) for maximum controllability. Its a habit I picked up from my EQ2 raiding days as a Necromancer. You don't want to be 'that guy' who's pets pull a Leroy and wipe the team because your pet got the silly idea to pick a fight on its own.
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
Quote:
Well, if this happens only in the iTrials, then I'm guessing that would make it an iTrial problem. Reppu did not make this clear in his posts, or I would not have challenged a claim to a behavior I would have no way of seeing (or not seeing) firsthand. But at any rate, as you make clear, this is NOT exclusively a problem with Beast Mastery "sucking", since other types of MM are having the same problem.
|
Originally Posted by Chill_Out
Rather than dismiss Reppu's claims, you may wish to take a 50 MM into the incarnate trials with pets on Passive, and watch them aggro Maelstrom, Malaise, Seige and other hijinx. I did 4 trials last night on my 53 bots/ff with pets on passive, and since they did the last patch (correcting the Tutorial bug with the same behavior), my pets have been replicating that same buggy tutorial behavior.'
There is a problem, and it has been reported by other MMs. May your BM pets not suffer the same fate, I'm happy for you. But don't be dismissive of others. It may be related to BM, or not, but lets recall the impact that DS AI had on the rest of MM primaries. |
Quote:
This really sounds like it has something to do with some kind of trigger after a new monster spawns... I had the same issue last night with my beasts (on all 3 alts) race off across the map to intercept an ambush.|
Originally Posted by Chill_Out
I'm curious Grim, did you try to run them through any trials? If you can, take one of them through TPN, BAF or MoM. My passive pets run off and aggro at the following points:
BAF - seige spawns. They race across the map. Goto makes them race back momentarily before they retarget Seige, then die. They are on passive since we loaded the map. Same thing happens when NS spawns. They seem fine during prisoner phase. TPN - fine until Maelstrom spawns outside, they they immediately target him and race off. IN passive, again. MoM - first map outside the hospital, pets on passive, load up, they race off and attack Malaise. Penelope Yin map, soon as I load, they race off to attack Penny. These are not usual behaviors (even for MM pets with their wonky AI). I have multiple MMs as my preferred characters since CoV launched, and I'm very famiilar with the care and handling of pets. I've been running trials with MMs since BAF and LAM opened. This is definitely something new. It reminds me of the recently-fixed tutorial bug, where upon summoning, the MM pet would run off to aggro shivans and engage in back and forth pathing behavior. I know this thread is about Beast secondaries, so I'll stop here, but I did want to address that this (for me) seems to be a iTrial issue, not a general gameplay issue (and hence, related to how pets respond to AV attacks/auras/etc). In case it wasnt' clear, I always run pets in Passive mode (I don't rely on BG mode) for maximum controllability. Its a habit I picked up from my EQ2 raiding days as a Necromancer. You don't want to be 'that guy' who's pets pull a Leroy and wipe the team because your pet got the silly idea to pick a fight on its own. |
It is worth noting that I had this problem with pets running off to attack siege when he spawns in the BAF well before BM went live, so I don't think it's particularly new, maybe just made worse?
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Quote:
Yeah, I think the issues have been getting unfairly co-mingled.|
Originally Posted by NekoNeko
Well, if this happens only in the iTrials, then I'm guessing that would make it an iTrial problem. Reppu did not make this clear in his posts, or I would not have challenged a claim to a behavior I would have no way of seeing (or not seeing) firsthand. But at any rate, as you make clear, this is NOT exclusively a problem with Beast Mastery "sucking", since other types of MM are having the same problem.
|
I purchased Beastmastery myself, but the issue of their being good/bad/underperforming/worth buying has no bearing on how pet pathing/actions are borked in trials, I agree.
That said, I find it curious that I noticed trial performance problems that mimics a bug they squashed in the tutorial that was corrected around the same time.
I did buy BM myself (I'm an MM completionist), and while I'm not crazy about their sustained damage in the mid twenties, I realize the set still is not mature. I do like their defense and resists, but the lethal damage worries me end-game, but I can't really assess the set until I'm working it out past 35, and probably into the trials themselves (or at least an ITF).
To add to the OP, I like BM with either Time (stacking Def, heals, slows and -dam to mitigate the damage), or FF (for cast n' forget, focus on attacks style). I have one of each. I have a necro/dark (51), but I'm not thrilled with dark in trials, you can't debuff all the enemies you need to to keep melee pets happy. Or at least, I can't. I do love Dark for the rest of the content tho.
So I'd recommend Time (melee centric, adds to defense and survivability, lots of tools to play with, good end-game); or FF (PB shields can cap pets easily with IO/Manv), status protection, and PFF (which I like for running some of the gauntlets the developers love to put in trials, or exploration). Force Bubble is also great for BAF mob control. And FF lets you have time to really work up Pack Mentality with your attacks (and have the slots to do it).
Between the pair, I'd go FF, and pick up Rebirth later for aoe heals/regen. Make sure to get the pet+5 Def IO and ATO Area of Effect +15 Defense. Add in the pet +10 Res IO, Maneuvers/leadership and Mace Mastery for some control and PB, plus some personal Defense (you can easily cap S/L/E).
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
Quote:
Hi Lobster. Interesting. Quick question, do you recall if having pets in passive was helpful? Currently it seems Passive doesn't have any effect on pet AI at those moments, for my pets.
|
Originally Posted by Lobster
This really sounds like it has something to do with some kind of trigger after a new monster spawns... I had the same issue last night with my beasts (on all 3 alts) race off across the map to intercept an ambush.
It is worth noting that I had this problem with pets running off to attack siege when he spawns in the BAF well before BM went live, so I don't think it's particularly new, maybe just made worse? |
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
Quote:
I don't use passive when solo/boxing, and it was on defensive at that point in the trial, so I couldn't say.
|
Originally Posted by Chill_Out
Hi Lobster. Interesting. Quick question, do you recall if having pets in passive was helpful? Currently it seems Passive doesn't have any effect on pet AI at those moments, for my pets.
|
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Quote:
It's a trap!|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
What are you trying to accomplish here? Getting someone to understand the difference between causal and coincidental relationships? That way lies madness.
|
Of Madness!!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Hm, no, didn't test in trials. I avoid trials if at all possible, would probably be unable to see my pets anyhow.
Just to add some data, I ran into the pets-running-after-new-spawns trouble on the Positron task forces. It's not just incarnate trials affected.
I've played Beast Mastery to 14 and haven't run into pathing issues. But back to pairing up Beast with other things?
Firstly, some notes about the primary attacks:
I do believe Call Swarm is completely skippable. The DoT is barely noteworthy (not to mention Lethal damage. You'd think if it was bees it'd be Toxic, no?), the -Speed and -Def aren't exactly noteworthy either, and it's chances of adding a Pack Mentality don't seem terribly high.
Call Hawk on the other hand, has -Fly, and Knockup and has a -really- good chance of adding Mentality.
Call Ravens? Not only visually impressive, but really effective. Cone AoE so it takes a bit more finesse, but you get a good chance of adding Mentality, and against multiple targets. It also takes an Achilles Heel proc thanks to it's -Def, and it has -Fly as well.
Since my current build has Call Ravens at 5 seconds and Call Hawk down to about 2 seconds, I can't justify Swarm.
As far as pairings go? I picked Storm and the only thing that erks me is the lack of an AoE heal. Thermal, Time and Dark has spoiled me rotten in that regard, so only having O2 Boost feels a bit...anemic by comparison. Still, Steamy Mist and Freezing Rain are a godsend, and I haven't even gotten to Hurricane shenanigans yet.
I went with Beast/Time after reading both sets, it seemed most fun to me (I was kinda glad to read later in forums it is a good choice). I usually end up not sticking with shield sets even if they are good, it tends to bore me, although this set the primary is actually more active than some.
I'd probably most recommend Dark or Sonic. The pets are highly melee, and you will be using your attacks to get the most out of the set. I was considering Dark, but I already like my Thugs/Dark a lot.
One thing I like about the beasts is they have a pretty low profile. Though sometimes this is bad because I don't see where they are. I have had them randomly run off before.
I also agree so far BM seems lackluster and I feel like the pets have a lot of do-nothing time. Not as bad as Ninja, but Ninja is just so bad. I'm still going to give it a chance and get all the pets before I make a final judgement, but I do feel like they're squishy and take quite a while to take down just 1 target. You can get away with it on a team, but solo play should be going faster than this.
I feel like they're getting a habit of tossing a more or less kinda done set in the shop just to get the money going, and then fixing it later (like Dark). I was really surprised to see this out before Staff. Except this set has much less clout to be fixed sooner rather than later, compared to other sets that apply to many more ATs. I am concerned. I'm going to play for now, but with the expectation fixes will show up later. If not, she's going to likely end up shelved indefinitely. I honestly was just really looking forward to something new in MMs, since I've played every other set to some degree.
_Victory_
Character List
They need a "point refund policy" for bad power sets.
**Damien**
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss.
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. "
You know they can start by giving Beast true Critical 100% damage and not just half of it. That should deliver more "burst" damage since they have some gaps in between attacks.
The idea behind Beast is to keep Pack Mentality going, so if we should buff the set, I want to make PM more potent. Give Beast 100% critical and see how that goes.
Didn't they increase Lion's pbaoe attack radius or range? I thought I read that on the patch note. My Beast/Time is still lvl 11.
And also, I love using the Hawk attack but how come Pack Mentality doesn't affect my personal attacks? If we belong to the same Pack, then the Master should enjoy the damage buff and critical chance as well. Don't you think? That will promote more Hawk/Swarm/Raven use.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.