A Few Suggstions from (limited) Experience Elsewhere


Articblade

 

Posted

CoH has been my only MMO. I have tried other free trials or dipped my feet in when they have gone free. I generally lose interest and drop them pretty quickly. However, I recently found an exception to this (in fact there is now a competition going for which I play free and which gets my subscription going forward, it may all hinge in I22). But from this experience I have come to recognize a few thoughts/suggestions for this game that I have enjoyed for many years:

(tl;dr version - war walls need to go, fewer 'city center' spaces could help the flow of missions and geographic linage of the zones, Origins based crafting could be cool, a 'reputation' system with the various factions could have a great place in CoH)

  1. I never understood the call to bring down the warwalls. Even after Praetoria's introduction, it just wasn't something I understood. After traveling from area to area without any loading screens and the sense of a coherent whole world... yeah, I get it now. Those war walls need to go.
  2. Despite being chopped into a checkerboard by the (now so annoying) war walls, I have liked the loose sense of the entire city being a single entity that comes from missions and contacts spread throughout it - you are never bound to an area. I also like having access to various functions convienently in multiple locations (though, really, an AE in nearly every zone?). However, I also have discovered I like the atmosphere of a more spoke-and-hub mission content: a single location with main gathering and features and then out into the world for activities. It feels bigger, more grand. Paragon City now feels disjointed and hectic.

    Maybe... if Atlas Park is so important, then leave the big things there and have KR, etc. hub off of it. Then do the same several levels later and use FF or some such similarly. As it stands now it feels more random than it used to.
  3. There are a lot of things I appreciate about the elementary crafting system within CoH. There are also things I am finding I appreciate about full crafting/profession as a progressive system within a game. This is where I think Origins could have played a more significant role - an Origins based flavorful/immersive/optional crafting system outside of direct leveling.
  4. One thing I never reallly liked is my characters do not have a 'place' or affiliation within the game. Only your own imagination ties you to a faction or flavor of the game. All villains are Arachnos bound, Praetorians lose verything that defines them when they cross over, you join the Midnighters just to get to the ITF but not because it 'matters' to be in that group, and the only organization you 'join' really is Vanguard. I have found that really like gaining reputation and standing with a local populace/group - that there is a recognition/purpose to what I am doing.

    I think Vanguard Merits started to play in this direction. I think there is more that could be done here. Influence/Infamy are now terribly used terms IMO. Instead, you should gain influence and standing with hero/villain groups as you carry out missions with/for them. Longbow should want to affiliate with me for my actions, or the Council with a villain, or the PPD, or Vanguard etc. This could manifest in merit systems like Vanguard (merits), or perhaps change the pool of available alignment missions, or offer special contacts/arcs/costumes, all sorts of much more immersive opportunities.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
  1. Despite being chopped into a checkerboard by the (now so annoying) war walls, I have liked the loose sense of the entire city being a single entity that comes from missions and contacts spread throughout it - you are never bound to an area. I also like having access to various functions convienently in multiple locations (though, really, an AE in nearly every zone?). However, I also have discovered I like the atmosphere of a more spoke-and-hub mission content: a single location with main gathering and features and then out into the world for activities. It feels bigger, more grand. Paragon City now feels disjointed and hectic.

    Maybe... if Atlas Park is so important, then leave the big things there and have KR, etc. hub off of it. Then do the same several levels later and use FF or some such similarly. As it stands now it feels more random than it used to.
No.

1. Not everyone has top of the line computers that can handle being crowded into the same zone as everyone else, so forcing unnecessary lag and disconnects on them is a horrible idea.

And when they quit because of it they aren't going to blame their own computers they'll blame the game for the lag and disconnects.

2. Much like the server populations many players prefer using isolated/underpopulated AE's where they can work in peace and quiet.


 

Posted

Darn mistype in the thread title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
No.

1. Not everyone has top of the line computers that can handle being crowded into the same zone as everyone else, so forcing unnecessary lag and disconnects on them is a horrible idea.

And when they quit because of it they aren't going to blame their own computers they'll blame the game for the lag and disconnects.
Maybe.
I can't speak to specific technical issues related to the concept. But, if properly planned/implemented the hub zones wouldn't suffer horribly. *shrug* In all seriousness, how do newer games (presumably more advanced requirements) not seem to have this problem with seemingly higher population?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
2. Much like the server populations many players prefer using isolated/underpopulated AE's where they can work in peace and quiet.
Given the nature of AE usage... I bet there would still be quiet and peaceful AE centers other than one mainly utilized location.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
Darn mistype in the thread title.



Maybe.
I can't speak to specific technical issues related to the concept. But, if properly planned/implemented the hub zones wouldn't suffer horribly. *shrug* In all seriousness, how do newer games (presumably more advanced requirements) not seem to have this problem with seemingly higher population?
They don't. Players with crappy computers, sorry, computers not up to the task of playing the game, still have the same problems and still blame everything on the game rather than their own system.

There is nothing the devs can do to fix a problem that is on the players end of things.


Quote:
Given the nature of AE usage... I bet there would still be quiet and peaceful AE centers other than one mainly utilized location.
Maybe, maybe not. With fewer choices people will be forced to cluster together. There is certainly quiet AE's now and the devs don't have to change anything since it's already been implemented. Like the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


 

Posted

Another problem with getting rid of the war walls is that most of the zones don't actually fit together the way the overall map shows. The best example of this is Terra Volta. The zone is bigger than the wall surrounded spot it takes up in IP. So removing the war walls wouldn't be just a technical fix, it would require a lot of artistic work to turn Paragon into a single continuous map.


_________
@Inquisitor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid View Post
Another problem with getting rid of the war walls is that most of the zones don't actually fit together the way the overall map shows. The best example of this is Terra Volta. The zone is bigger than the wall surrounded spot it takes up in IP. So removing the war walls wouldn't be just a technical fix, it would require a lot of artistic work to turn Paragon into a single continuous map.
Agreed. And I largely never cared because I never thought it was worth the effort.

I now suggest it should happen, because I think it would be worth the effort.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
Agreed. And I largely never cared because I never thought it was worth the effort.

I now suggest it should happen, because I think it would be worth the effort.
While you may think it's worth the effort, how many other people do you think are going to be willing to give up the devs working on everything else to get this done? This isn't going to be an easy project and they'll have to cut back on developing a ton of other stuff in order to give it the proper attention so it works right.

Now if the devs want to work on this as a side project so it doesn't interfere with everything else they are developing that's fine but don't expect it any time soon. Even if the devs started on this idea back when they started developing Praetoria I wouldn't expect it soon.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
While you may think it's worth the effort, how many other people do you think are going to be willing to give up the devs working on everything else to get this done? This isn't going to be an easy project and they'll have to cut back on developing a ton of other stuff in order to give it the proper attention so it works right.

Now if the devs want to work on this as a side project so it doesn't interfere with everything else they are developing that's fine but don't expect it any time soon. Even if the devs started on this idea back when they started developing Praetoria I wouldn't expect it soon.
I offer no expectation of time frame.

I offer no expectation of realistic anticipation of its completion.

I offer it as a suggested idea that I'd like to see.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
I offer no expectation of time frame.

I offer no expectation of realistic anticipation of its completion.

I offer it as a suggested idea that I'd like to see.

That's good to hear cuz as nice as it would be to get it'll be a massive undertaking.


 

Posted

As a note on AE, keep in mind that every AE building has a section designed exactly for the purpose of working in peace and quiet.


 

Posted

1,2) I flew around the praetoria maps once for kicks, I found it meh.

3) No! Please keep the game balanced around SO's (and release more ATO's pls).

4) That would be an unpopular move, as an example people campaigned long and hard to unlock PPP's from specific Patrons. I don't like being forced to go to specific places and do specific content to gain specific rewards. I think Freedom of choice is the best quality of the coh system (ie: choice of ae, story arcs, random missions, crafting or pay money etc) and I hope it stays that way.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
As a note on AE, keep in mind that every AE building has a section designed exactly for the purpose of working in peace and quiet.
Peace and quiet from powers being constantly spammed or toggled on. No peace and quiet from tells and blind invites. /hide has no effect when they are standing next to you and trying to get your attention in chat and with emotes.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Klaw_ View Post
1,2) I flew around the praetoria maps once for kicks, I found it meh.
Me too. I've found it is the loading screens that are annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Klaw_ View Post
3) No! Please keep the game balanced around SO's (and release more ATO's pls)..
Not sure where I suggested enh crafting, and plenty of ppl aren't happy about the "pay-to-win" AOs (not me particularly). There is plenty of space for costume elements, temp powers, heck animations, all sorts of stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Klaw_ View Post
4) That would be an unpopular move, as an example people campaigned long and hard to unlock PPP's from specific Patrons. I don't like being forced to go to specific places and do specific content to gain specific rewards. I think Freedom of choice is the best quality of the coh system (ie: choice of ae, story arcs, random missions, crafting or pay money etc) and I hope it stays that way.
As part of that freedom of choice, others may want access to story/content based items also. So your freedom must impinge on others? Less, snarky not heard much complaining about Vanguard merits, per se, so there are clearly effective ways to put in interesting content.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

Posted

Apparently only nay-sayers caring to comment... so either bad/uninteresting discussion points.

Oh, well.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
Apparently only nay-sayers caring to comment... so either bad/uninteresting discussion points.

Oh, well.

You do realize that the purpose of the suggestions forum is to get feedback on ideas from your fellow players so you can fine tune your ideas.

Truly bad ideas get no comments whatsoever and drop off never to be seen again.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
You do realize that the purpose of the suggestions forum is to get feedback on ideas from your fellow players so you can fine tune your ideas.
Thank you mister obvious?

And part of that process would be suggesting how it could work? What would be the impact? Perhaps, constructive criticism rather than: that's hard, or I don't like it so no one else can either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Truly bad ideas get no comments whatsoever and drop off never to be seen again.
Yep, and if mine fall in that category, I believe I am allowed to be disappointed.

Thankfully, I have found that other games include things that I have discovered and enjoy. I wish they had flavors of those features in this game so my waning enthusiasm could find new outlets to grow. But c'est la vie.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
Agreed. And I largely never cared because I never thought it was worth the effort.

I now suggest it should happen, because I think it would be worth the effort.
I don't think it's worth any effort. 90% of the content is in instances, not the open world so there is little point to improving the inter-connectedness of the open world.

If more missions were out in the open that would be a different story.

Just my opinion

/shrug.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
They don't. Players with crappy computers, sorry, computers not up to the task of playing the game,
No need to sugar coat it. People like me, our computers suck. Hell, I WANT a computer that sucks. It would be an upgrade.

Quote:
still have the same problems and still blame everything on the game rather than their own system.
Not all of us. Some of us tweak settings until we get playable quality, while cursing our computers when we crash out of a trial for the third time because we were dumb enough to actually join one.

But my boss is giving me a fairly recent computer he has that just needs a replacement hard drive (which I have multiples of). With luck, I'll be upgrading from "craptastic" to "Holy Crap! There's more than three polygons in a Hellion?" by the end of the week.

I will miss seeing Hellion textures stretched across giant triangles though. That is still funny every time I see it.


@Roderick

 

Posted

While a more open world can be nice, I enjoy flying around Praetoria until the Sonic barrier gets me anyway, I don't think it would work well in Paragon City itself. The War Walls are there for a very good, in-game reason: To contain any destruction that occurs in the zone. I can't see them being able to come up with a good reason as to why the walls have come down when there are dozens upon dozens of invasions occurring. Add to that that many people have older machines (The game is almost eight years old, so it stands to reason some computers are that old and playing it still). I can see the open world option being done in the Rogue Islands though. It's odd and irritating to suddenly hit a barrier for no reason.
As for point four... From what I understand, that's what they're slowly starting to do. You aren't necessarily part of a specific faction, but the story lines of the SSA and the Incarnates seems to building to this, to an extent.


 

Posted

I also despise the war walls, at least in general usage. I would be fine with certain areas being walled off as higher security, but I'd love to see most of them come down eventually. Also, from an in game perspective, it would be great if we could tear down the trappings of a totalitarian fascist state run by The Statesman now that he's dead. Want to go from one suburb to another? We may not require that you show your papers (security level) anymore, but we can close these doors any time Blue Shield says so...

In all seriousness, I think it's worth exploring the idea of getting the walls out of The Rogue Isles at least. If that works out well, we could move forward from there.


Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.


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