Need help from Military People
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-02-29 05:20 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Blasphemy! NCOs are the core and backbone of the military branches. They are the ones that get down and dirty and are largely responsible for the well being and training of all enlisted members. Despite what Hollywood portrays Officers are mainly administrators. While some Lts that serve as Platoon leaders may hump it with the troops, as far as many enlisted soldiers are concerned they just have to make sure we get our beans and bullets.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
The reason NCOs are mainly left out is that everything above Staff Sergeant seems like it'd be worthless
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Originally Posted by Durakken
What rank would the civilian hold? He'd be an active member of the team and has "civilian-acquired" skills due to experience with alien technology, but i'm not exactly sure what that means. He's between High school and College so he doesn't have a degree... It seems like he'd be a PFC or Specialist, but I'm not sure.
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I honestly think for such a small group you wouldn't need more than two officers. I take it this will only be a platoon sized group.
I'd have it as:
High ranking officer in charge of the group overall and dealing with bureaucrats.
Officer in charge of field operations, this would be the Platoon leader.
Platoon Sgt (Usually a SFC or MstSGT)
Squad leader, one for each squad (Usually a Staff Sgt but could be a Sgt or Corporal)
Squad members (E4, E3, E2, E1)
With that said the beauty of your idea is that it's your idea and you can choose to implement the structure as you wish, especially considering the basis and that this is a new military branch.
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It sounds like your structure is going to be based loosely on the Navy? I'm not all that familiar with command structures outside of the Army, but I can lend a few general notes that should apply universally to any service.
First, don't discount the upper level NCO importance. They are the backbone of any military organization. Think Sergeant Major Plumley (played by Sam Elliot in "We Were Soldiers Once"). While they won't often demand it, competent NCO's absolutely deserve and likewise command respect from enlisted man and commissioned officer alike.
Also often overlooked in fiction is the dynamic between upper level enlisted and lower level commissioned ranks. While technically the lowliest lieutenant in the Army out ranks any Sergeant Major, it never works this way in practice. The reason is simple. Every higher rank NCO generally has an officer counterpart, and this counterpart out-ranks the lower level officer. For example, while a head strong lieutenant may feel like he needs to take on a company First Sergeant, and by the letter of the law he can... he will always lose, because the First Sergeant works day in and out with a company commander that out ranks the lieutenant, and will side with his NCO every time.
Civilians hold no rank. They're civilians. Think of it like this (simplified). It's illegal for a subordinate to disobey a lawful order from their superior in the military. It's not illegal for a subordinate to disobey their boss in the civilian world. It's also not illegal for a civilian to disobey their military boss, which they often have when employed by the military. The respect a civilian gains by his military counterparts in a unit will generally be directly proportionate to his or her competency and ability to contribute to the accomplishment of their mission.
As to your unit, I'll speak from an infantryman's perspective. A 5 man "Fire Team" in the Army Infantry is a group of privates led by (at best) a Corporal or maybe a Sergeant. A "Team" in the Army Special Forces is generally around 12 enlisted men and warrant officers (minimum rank of staff sergeant), led by an Army Captain. (O-3, much lower rank than a Navy Captain). Fiction, in particular movies, seem to always place high ranking commissioned officers in places you wouldn't typically see them. A Lieutenant Colonel is a field grade officer, and commands a battalion level contingent of 100's of men and women (or much more typically, serves on the staff of a higher ranking officer -- basically a desk job).
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I forgot to say this, but EnigmaBlack covered it for me while I was typing. |
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
With that said the beauty of your idea is that it's your idea and you can choose to implement the structure as you wish, especially considering the basis and that this is a new military branch.
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Take the "real world" references for what they are worth to you. Fiction is just that. Fiction.
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Well see the thing is, I don't mean to be disrespectful to NCOs as they are important in normal circumstances, but the point of them seems to be mentoring the Officers to a degree as an "assistant" and or coordinating troops, but I just don't see the point of those ranks when you're in a spaceship and the higher ranks are there and can mentor you and any coordinating of troops seems to be more of a technical feat rather than needing another person to relay messages through... it just sorta seems like a rank that doesn't need to be there in the given situation.|
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
Blasphemy! NCOs are the core and backbone of the military branches. They are the ones that get down and dirty and are largely responsible for the well being and training of all enlisted members. Despite what Hollywood portrays Officers are mainly administrators. While some Lts that serve as Platoon leaders may hump it with the troops, as far as many enlisted soldiers are concerned they just have to make sure we get our beans and bullets.
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Perhaps you could clarify the point of having them as I view that the job would be a "command" role as in issue orders and such, but if I read what you're saying right are you saying that Officers are the Command and clerical role while the NCOs are more the training and actually following the commands? Or something like that?
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For this I would suggest a Warrant Officer, Specialist (or E4 equivalent) I honestly think for such a small group you wouldn't need more than two officers. I take it this will only be a platoon sized group. I'd have it as: High ranking officer in charge of the group overall and dealing with bureaucrats. Officer in charge of field operations, this would be the Platoon leader. Platoon Sgt (Usually a SFC or MstSGT) Squad leader, one for each squad (Usually a Staff Sgt but could be a Sgt or Corporal) Squad members (E4, E3, E2, E1) |
Initially they're going to start with a "fire team" i guess it's called... of 5 +1 (the general) and then they are going to start forming squads of 2 fire teams + a CO. Then I feel that the next stage after enough squads are out there they'd more than likely either not fight in bigger groups or build ships and have space battles... so I dunno if that's called a platoon or not... didn't check.
As far as an Officer that handle bureaucrats... the general is supposed to be a retired 4 star general at the beginning of the series, though that might change due to age and i haven't checked that yet
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| With that said the beauty of your idea is that it's your idea and you can choose to implement the structure as you wish, especially considering the basis and that this is a new military branch. |
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Originally Posted by Durakken
I'm writing a story where military ranks and such may be important to know... Not so much current ones, but one created in reaction to events...
Basically there is an alien invasion which leaves technology behind. This technology is then used to create a new US military branch that then eventually moves to a global military eventually... At first the technology is used terrestrially, but is presumed that it will expand to space. The branch is initially formed by a General and a Lt. Colonel who petition for it and are put in charge largely because they are highly regarded and they were at the center of the invasion and because of that have experience with using some of the recovered technology. Likewise a civilian is recruited as he has the most experience with the tech by chance. I want the story to revolve largely around a 5 man team, largely using the excuse that there is only currently enough time to get 5 prototype/working model up and running of hybrid/new equipment. Eventually 5 man teams turn into 11 man squads, and etc up the groupings... Now here are the ranks I'm thinking... General Captain (captains ship) Commander (2nd in command on ship) Lieutenant Colonel (division head) or LtCommander Major (shift head) or LtColonel Lieutenant (2nd in command on a shift) Ensign (commissioned officer) Cadet (in training to be an officer) Staff Sergeant (Squad leader, NCO) Sergeant (team leader, NCO) Corporal (NCO) Specialist (graduated enlisted with 4y degrees/civilian-aquired skills, non-command position) Private First Class (graduated enlisted) Private (Recruit in boot camp) Now this follows more or less the 8 tiers of Officers and several tiers of enlisted, with most NCOs left out. The reason NCOs are mainly left out is that everything above Staff Sergeant seems like it'd be worthless or wouldn't fit as larger groups would be organized by the Officers and the Officers would get mentored by higher ups when they'd get to that level. Perhaps I'm wrong and if so please let me know what you think... I'm thinking of having the LtC from the beginning take on the leadership of the initial 5 man team. Would that happen? Would they perhaps take on a different rank because of this or switching branches of the military? I'm thinking of saying that people are taken from other branches for high marks. Would this be acceptable? What rank would the civilian hold? He'd be an active member of the team and has "civilian-acquired" skills due to experience with alien technology, but i'm not exactly sure what that means. He's between High school and College so he doesn't have a degree... It seems like he'd be a PFC or Specialist, but I'm not sure. The parentheses after the rank is a small note of what their role is on a ship and/or to my understanding their position within the military. I've used Army and Navy ranks... and because it's a pretty nice basis to start from how StarFleet more or less works their officers. Like I said earlier the idea is that it is Army started to a degree and has Army elements to it, but with the outlook of it might start taking to space it has Naval terms in there too... Do the rank look about right for what would happen in that case? Also I like Major as a rank title, but it seems out of place... is there a better solution than the "or" solution around that rank... I've thought that maybe Major might be used specifically for the shift heads that relate directly to the Army-esque sections and also by doing that it would be a bit confusing with LtColonel and Major = same rank and both are military rank titles. Also... considering the 5 team members would be a LtCol, and a Civilian? what would the other 3 members of the team ranks be? I would assume 1 of each rank about PFC? |
Hard to address everything so if you have any questions just ask me.
Well firstly about your mixture of Army and Navy ranks. If this is like Star Voyage space flight technology then Naval Ranks might be more appropriate. If its more of a ground force then Army ranks might be more appropriate. Its its a mixture then certain Marine ranks may be appropriate. If this technology is used for long range air attacks then consider it a branch of the Air Force
The Navy equivalent of an Army General is an Admiral.
The Army equivialent of an Navy Captain is a Colonel.
A Captain in the Army is a much lower officer than a Captain in the Navy.
Drop the rank Specialist.... its bull****. The Marines do not have it. Unless this story has hundreds of soldiers I would not even use it. Just use Private then Corporal. Or Seaman then Petty Officer (Navy). Only use Specialist when refering to the civilian maybe..even then it should not be a rank.
Lieutenant Colonels in the army command a Battalion which consists of 300-1200 men and as such usually conduct missions with Company or Platoon sized elements. I am sure you can have a Lieutenant Colonel working with a 5 man team or 11 man squad but it just seems weird to me so you may consider making your main character a lower rank like a Lieutenant or Captain or Navy Lieutenant.
The civilian would not be a rank but contracted by the military but still would have to answer to the commander or his subordinates.
Also if the Space Flight is one ship a CAPTAIN would be in charge of it most likely with the Admirals watching from a safe diatance.Or an Air Force Colonel would be in charge of it while the Air Force Generals watch from a safe distance. If the ship is small, the Commander of the vessel can go down in rank maybe, Navy Commander or Air Force Lieutenant Colonel.
If it expanded to many ships then it might be feasible that an Admiral or Air Force General would accompany them.
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Sci-Fi is full of stories that play fast-and-loose with things like military ranks. I'd say use real world examples for as much or as little as you want.|
Originally Posted by Warfarin88
Take the "real world" references for what they are worth to you. Fiction is just that. Fiction.
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I'd guess the only real advice I'd provide is that if you end up trying to get it super-close to the real world then you better make sure you get the details "right" because then your minor differences/mistakes will stand out more. If you decide to be much less detailed with it then it won't really matter how different you make it.
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Officers are generalists, NCO's are specialists. Where an NCO will often do the same job his entire career, continually refining his expertise; an officer will change rolls and responsibilities continuously throughout his or her career. To this extent, its actually the NCO command structure that serves much of practical mentor-ship role for the (continuously) newly arriving officers in their units. | Perhaps you could clarify the point of having them as I view that the job would be a "command" role as in issue orders and such, but if I read what you're saying right are you saying that Officers are the Command and clerical role while the NCOs are more the training and actually following the commands? Or something like that? |
In simplest terms, NCO's direct the enlisted men in a unit to carry out the orders given to them by the officer in a unit. The officer supervises the direction of their NCO's, and communicates with higher to modify and further disseminate orders as needed.
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"The civilian" is only a civilian during the invasion. When the general get everything set he "recruits" the civilian so that he becomes a part of that military organization. He doesn't go through basic training and is forced to learn on the job. I'm going to make the argument that surviving the invasion and saving the 2 officers along with having the most experience with the technology equates to him being allowed to skip it or something like that.|
Originally Posted by Warfarin88
Civilians hold no rank. They're civilians. Think of it like this (simplified). It's illegal for a subordinate to disobey a lawful order from their superior in the military. It's not illegal for a subordinate to disobey their boss in the civilian world. It's also not illegal for a civilian to disobey their military boss, which they often have when employed by the military. The respect a civilian gains by his military counterparts in a unit will generally be directly proportionate to his or her competency and ability to contribute to the accomplishment of their mission.
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| As to your unit, I'll speak from an infantryman's perspective. A 5 man "Fire Team" in the Army Infantry is a group of privates led by (at best) a Corporal or maybe a Sergeant. A "Team" in the Army Special Forces is generally around 12 enlisted men and warrant officers (minimum rank of staff sergeant), led by an Army Captain. (O-3, much lower rank than a Navy Captain). Fiction, in particular movies, seem to always place high ranking commissioned officers in places you wouldn't typically see them. A Lieutenant Colonel is a field grade officer, and commands a battalion level contingent of 100's of men and women (or much more typically, serves on the staff of a higher ranking officer -- basically a desk job). |
Now that i think about it I'm not even sure if the character would be eligible for the rank as she's supposed to be mid-20s... wouldn't an LtC's age be more in the late 20s early 30s?
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I suppose anything could be possible in a fictional story but yeah, it would probably be a bit of a stretch for someone so young to be a LtCol. in a futuristic military.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Now that i think about it I'm not even sure if the character would be eligible for the rank as she's supposed to be mid-20s... wouldn't an LtC's age be more in the late 20s early 30s?
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There was a time in the past when people were promoted pretty high up at a young age - for instance George Armstrong Custer held the brevet rank of Major General during the Civil War while in his mid-20s. But those were also times when most people didn't live much past like 50 anyway.
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it's a combination of things... initially they start of as a anti-invasion task force type group using the alien technology to fend them off... the alien technology leads to mecha designs and as things progress it is realized they need to start defending from space which leads to using the technologies to build low orbit and orbital ships. |
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Hard to address everything so if you have any questions just ask me.
Well firstly about your mixture of Army and Navy ranks. If this is like Star Voyage space flight technology then Naval Ranks might be more appropriate. If its more of a ground force then Army ranks might be more appropriate. Its its a mixture then certain Marine ranks may be appropriate. If this technology is used for long range air attacks then consider it a branch of the Air Force The Navy equivalent of an Army General is an Admiral. The Army equivialent of an Navy Captain is a Colonel. A Captain in the Army is a much lower officer than a Captain in the Navy. Drop the rank Specialist.... its bull****. The Marines do not have it. Unless this story has hundreds of soldiers I would not even use it. Just use Private then Corporal. Or Seaman then Petty Officer (Navy). Only use Specialist when refering to the civilian maybe..even then it should not be a rank. Lieutenant Colonels in the army command a Battalion which consists of 300-1200 men and as such usually conduct missions with Company or Platoon sized elements. I am sure you can have a Lieutenant Colonel working with a 5 man team or 11 man squad but it just seems weird to me so you may consider making your main character a lower rank like a Lieutenant or Captain or Navy Lieutenant. The civilian would not be a rank but contracted by the military but still would have to answer to the commander or his subordinates. Also if the Space Flight is one ship a CAPTAIN would be in charge of it most likely with the Admirals watching from a safe diatance.Or an Air Force Colonel would be in charge of it while the Air Force Generals watch from a safe distance. If the ship is small, the Commander of the vessel can go down in rank maybe, Navy Commander or Air Force Lieutenant Colonel. If it expanded to many ships then it might be feasible that an Admiral or Air Force General would accompany them. |
So it starts off army/intry-esque but then air-force and navy is used to start building and commanding the ships which also leads to commanding the infantry... so it all blends together. I figure that Structurally they start of Army so take on that, but then custom and people in charge bring in other ranks... while at the same time the audience is used to hearing Starfleet ranks so that would be an easy reference point...not to mention some in story chars might just like using those terms...
Also this is an organization that is rushed into being created and being done more as they go over less than a decade and rapidly changes and brings in people from various branches so it's somewhat supposed to be a mish mash but still decently structured.
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I don't think there is any real world correlation in formal military structures for this action. There is a "field commission" of an enlisted man to officer rank. I would probably play this out somewhat similarly. If warranted, this could even sow seeds of discontent and envy from "peers" within the unit. Like any "boys club," there would be a measure of resentment from the rest of the members of the unit that the civilian didn't pay his or her dues until he proved himself otherwise. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
"The civilian" is only a civilian during the invasion. When the general get everything set he "recruits" the civilian so that he becomes a part of that military organization. He doesn't go through basic training and is forced to learn on the job. I'm going to make the argument that surviving the invasion and saving the 2 officers along with having the most experience with the technology equates to him being allowed to skip it or something like that.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Yeah, I realize the LtC is more or less a desk job, but I figure I could make the argument that the LtC has experience, is a fighter, and they need the best people for the job more so than the rank and they need the experience to make up for the civilian so she would take on the lead role for those reasons...
Now that i think about it I'm not even sure if the character would be eligible for the rank as she's supposed to be mid-20s... wouldn't an LtC's age be more in the late 20s early 30s? |
If you want a bad *** in her mid 20s, and want to stay somewhat true to "reality", I would make her a Captain (O3) or some sort of "fast track" Major (O4).
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A standard requirement for a commision in the US Military is a 4 year college degree. So officers generally "start" in their early 20s at the youngest. In times of war this can push out older, but not younger unless they're some sort of MIT genius that graduated early. (I actually think General Petraeus' son is one of those lol).
Figure minimum time in grade for a O1 is 18 months, and then typically 4 years at 02, means you are on the tail end of your "mid 20s" before you are even eligible for O3, captain. O4 is years further down the road. Now, in times of war, these schedules can be pushed the other way. (promotions happen faster)
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I actually have a bit of real world experience in this area. During the last few years I've worked with several younger Air Force officers. Most of them are Captains who are anywhere from their mid 20s to early 30s. There have been a couple of Majors in that same age range, but they were clearly exceptions (and very sharp people as you might imagine). The current commander of this group is a LtCol, but he is clearly in his 40s.
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Originally Posted by Warfarin88
Lt. Colonel would be more like 40s.
If you want a bad *** in his mid 20s, and want to stay somewhat true to "reality", I would make him a Captain (O3) or some sort of "fast track" Major (O4). |
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I actually have a bit of real world experience in this area too. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
I actually have a bit of real world experience in this area. During the last few years I've worked with several younger Air Force officers. Most of them are Captains who are anywhere from their mid 20s to early 30s. There have been a couple of Majors in that same age range, but they were clearly exceptions (and very sharp people as you might imagine). The current commander of this group is a LtCol, but he is clearly in his 40s.
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I commissioned very "old" at 33, and most all of my peers were younger, where as most of the Captains I worked with were about "my age". Majors on up were almost always older than I was. (above Major was always significantly older).
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That's cool and thanks for serving. I was basically just agreeing with you with my contractor experience. |
Originally Posted by Warfarin88
I actually have a bit of real world experience in this area too.
I commissioned very "old" at 33, and most all of my peers were younger, where as most of the Captains I worked with were about "my age". Majors on up were almost always older than I was. |
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Thank you. I was in and out pretty quick (training injury), but I will humbly accept your thanks on behalf of those that do and have done so much more.
Thank you too. I may well fall into that category myself if I ever get done with round two of college here. 
Well in the Air Force they dangle (well back in my day) Captain in front of ROTC grads to encourage them to reup after their commitment is up (unless you are a Pilot or Navigator).
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Does this make more sense?
On the left side is what it starts out as (army ranks), but as time progresses they become the parenthetical rank either out of custom simplification due to names elsewhere. The rank on the right is the NCO equivalent or however you want to say it...
Oh and O-1 and O-2 is altered cuz 1st and 2nd Lieutenant are horrible titles and if I was in the army i'd try my hardest just to get past those rank names...
O-7 General
O-6 Colonel (Captain)
O-5 Lieutenant Colonel (Commander)
O-4 Major
O-3 Captain (Lieutenant Commander) / E-9 Sergeant Major
O-2 First Lieutenant (Lietenant) / E-8 Master Sergeant
O-1 Second Lieutenant (Ensign) / E-7 Sergeant First Class
E-6 Staff Sergeant
E-5 Sergeant
E-4 Corporal
E-3 PFC
E-2 Private 2
E-1 Private
as far as age goes... according to http://usmilitary.about.com/od/promo...fficerprom.htm the character would have to be an O-3... at the most and O-4 depending on her age. Also according to that you could theoretically be a general at age 35, but that's only if you hit every promotion at the legal minimum.
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If that's what you want then go for it. And if you don't like the whole "Second LT/First LT" thing then don't include it in your system. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
Does this make more sense?
On the left side is what it starts out as (army ranks), but as time progresses they become the parenthetical rank either out of custom simplification due to names elsewhere. The rank on the right is the NCO equivalent or however you want to say it... Oh and O-1 and O-2 is altered cuz 1st and 2nd Lieutenant are horrible titles and if I was in the army i'd try my hardest just to get past those rank names... O-7 General O-6 Colonel (Captain) O-5 Lieutenant Colonel (Commander) O-4 Major O-3 Captain (Lieutenant Commander) / E-9 Sergeant Major O-2 First Lieutenant (Lietenant) / E-8 Master Sergeant O-1 Second Lieutenant (Ensign) / E-7 Sergeant First Class E-6 Staff Sergeant E-5 Sergeant E-4 Corporal E-3 PFC E-2 Private 2 E-1 Private as far as age goes... according to http://usmilitary.about.com/od/promo...fficerprom.htm the character would have to be an O-3... at the most and O-4 depending on her age. Also according to that you could theoretically be a general at age 35, but that's only if you hit every promotion at the legal minimum. |
The only thing I'd quibble with you about this is that your parenthesized LtCmdr rank should match up to Major (O-4) and your parenthesized Lt should match up to Captain (O-3). I think that's what they're more equivalent to in real life, but then again like I said you can do whatever you want.
I'd just stress the idea that you really only need as much detail in this area as your story requires. If your story is going to focus on promotions and the way the rank system is evolving in this setting then maybe you'll want to describe all this in detail. Otherwise I wouldn't dwell on this area too much.
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My view is from that of the Air Force.| While they won't often demand it, competent NCO's absolutely deserve and likewise command respect from enlisted man and commissioned officer alike. |
This is true. I've worked with Lieutenants in the past who would admit that while they may outrank Master/Senior Master/Chief Master Sergeants, these ranks are treated with the upmost respect even amongst officers.
Our Squadron Commander would sometimes say (half jokingly) that it was the Chief Master Sergeant who really ran things.
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| Fiction, in particular movies, seem to always place high ranking commissioned officers in places you wouldn't typically see them. |
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Here's the Navy's rank structure|
Originally Posted by Warfarin88
It sounds like your structure is going to be based loosely on the Navy?
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E-1 - Seaman Recruit
E-2 - Seaman Apprentice
E-3 - Seaman
E-4 - PO3 - Petty Officer 3rd Class
E-5 - PO2 - Petty Officer Second Class
E-6 - PO1 - Petty Officer First Class
E-7 - CPO - Chief Petty Officer
E-8 - SCPO - Senior Chief Petty Officer
E-9 - MCPO - Master Chief Petty Officer (E-9's also includes Command Master chief, Fleet/Force Master Chief (there are only 16 Force MC FORCM slots in the Navy, and 4 Fleet MC slots FLTCM), and 1 Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy or MCPON)
W-1 - WO1 - Warrant Officer One (I think this rank has been phased out)
W-2 - CW2 - Chief Warrant Officer 2
W-3 - CW3 - Chief Warrant Officer 3
W-4 - CW4 - Chief Warrant Officer 4
W-5 - CW5 - Chief Warrant Officer 5
O-1 - ENS - Ensign
O-2 - LtJG - Lieutenant Junior Grade
O-3 - LT - Lieutenant
O-4 - LtCdr - Lieutenant Commander
O-5 - Cdr - Commander
O-6 - Cpt - Captain
O-7 - RDmL - Rear Admiral Lower Half
O-8 - RAdm - Rear Admiral
O-9 - VAdm - Vice Admiral
O-10 - Adm - Admiral
O-11 - FAdm - Fleet Admiral (Wartime)
Special Grade - (6 stars) Admiral of the Navy
Warrant Officers are highly skilled specialists. Technical experts providing skills, guidance and expertise.
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Here's the Reasoning behind it...|
Originally Posted by Lothic
If that's what you want then go for it. And if you don't like the whole "Second LT/First LT" thing then don't include it in your system.
The only thing I'd quibble with you about this is that your parenthesized LtCmdr rank should match up to Major (O-4) and your parenthesized Lt should match up to Captain (O-3). I think that's what they're more equivalent to in real life, but then again like I said you can do whatever you want. I'd just stress the idea that you really only need as much detail in this area as your story requires. If your story is going to focus on promotions and the way the rank system is evolving in this setting then maybe you'll want to describe all this in detail. Otherwise I wouldn't dwell on this area too much. |
Captain gets moved to the O-6 position thus O-3 has to change. A direct change would be Lieutenant which would leave 1st and 2nd Lt and that doesn't make much sense. So we change O-3 to Lieutenant Commander instead as the next rank above Lieutenant... O-2 doesn't really change, but then O-1 gets changed for simplification to Ensign.
Another in-story explanation could be that Majors in their role are not part of the routine day-to-day workings of the ship but rather the more army-esque side which would mean that that rank didn't get renamed and at the same time because "Captains" appeared to fill the role of Lieutenant Commander thus the discrepancy.
Again it's ultimaltely whatever you want.
I'll just say if your story isn't really going to benefit from this much micro-detail then all it'll do is bring you extra complications/questions like this. The simpler you keep it the less it'll "conflict" with anything in real life or otherwise. Franchises like Star Wars, Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica all used pretty loose structures for their rank titles and in the long run it worked for the most part.
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Another solution I guess would be to make it
O-4 Lieutenant Commander and Major
O-3 Lieutenant
O-2 Lieutenant Junior Grade
but I don't know if that is a good thing or not. That's what Starfleet uses... I think the Lieutenant Junior Grade rank is silly it's like saying Junior Junior
Also, Lothic. I appreciate the help... but please stop saying I can do what i want. I know that. However I am asking for opinions, not to be told I can do what I want.
Quote:
That may be what you think you are doing but our opinions ultimately mean nothing to you because you are making it up for yourself anyway. You've semi-ignored and/or countered just about everything everyone's said to you on this matter. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Also, Lothic. I appreciate the help... but please stop saying I can do what i want. I know that. However I am asking for opinions, not to be told I can do what I want.
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I'm writing a story where military ranks and such may be important to know... Not so much current ones, but one created in reaction to events...
Basically there is an alien invasion which leaves technology behind. This technology is then used to create a new US military branch that then eventually moves to a global military eventually...
At first the technology is used terrestrially, but is presumed that it will expand to space.
The branch is initially formed by a General and a Lt. Colonel who petition for it and are put in charge largely because they are highly regarded and they were at the center of the invasion and because of that have experience with using some of the recovered technology. Likewise a civilian is recruited as he has the most experience with the tech by chance.
I want the story to revolve largely around a 5 man team, largely using the excuse that there is only currently enough time to get 5 prototype/working model up and running of hybrid/new equipment. Eventually 5 man teams turn into 11 man squads, and etc up the groupings...
Now here are the ranks I'm thinking...
General
Captain (captains ship)
Commander (2nd in command on ship)
Lieutenant Colonel (division head) or LtCommander
Major (shift head) or LtColonel
Lieutenant (2nd in command on a shift)
Ensign (commissioned officer)
Cadet (in training to be an officer)
Staff Sergeant (Squad leader, NCO)
Sergeant (team leader, NCO)
Corporal (NCO)
Specialist (graduated enlisted with 4y degrees/civilian-aquired skills, non-command position)
Private First Class (graduated enlisted)
Private (Recruit in boot camp)
Now this follows more or less the 8 tiers of Officers and several tiers of enlisted, with most NCOs left out.
The reason NCOs are mainly left out is that everything above Staff Sergeant seems like it'd be worthless or wouldn't fit as larger groups would be organized by the Officers and the Officers would get mentored by higher ups when they'd get to that level. Perhaps I'm wrong and if so please let me know what you think...
I'm thinking of having the LtC from the beginning take on the leadership of the initial 5 man team. Would that happen? Would they perhaps take on a different rank because of this or switching branches of the military?
I'm thinking of saying that people are taken from other branches for high marks. Would this be acceptable?
What rank would the civilian hold? He'd be an active member of the team and has "civilian-acquired" skills due to experience with alien technology, but i'm not exactly sure what that means. He's between High school and College so he doesn't have a degree... It seems like he'd be a PFC or Specialist, but I'm not sure.
The parentheses after the rank is a small note of what their role is on a ship and/or to my understanding their position within the military. I've used Army and Navy ranks... and because it's a pretty nice basis to start from how StarFleet more or less works their officers. Like I said earlier the idea is that it is Army started to a degree and has Army elements to it, but with the outlook of it might start taking to space it has Naval terms in there too... Do the rank look about right for what would happen in that case? Also I like Major as a rank title, but it seems out of place... is there a better solution than the "or" solution around that rank... I've thought that maybe Major might be used specifically for the shift heads that relate directly to the Army-esque sections and also by doing that it would be a bit confusing with LtColonel and Major = same rank and both are military rank titles.
Also... considering the 5 team members would be a LtCol, and a Civilian? what would the other 3 members of the team ranks be? I would assume 1 of each rank about PFC?