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Just you hold. It might be possible to confuse the green Mitos though. I'm not entirely sure, but you are trying to overcome their hold protection.|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Despite my Mind/Fire dom being my favorite character, there are a few things about Mind Control I've never really been sure about and never actually asked anyone about:
1. On a Hami raid, we Doms and controllers are told to "Spam [our] holds," against the green mitos. Does using my sleep, fear, and confuse powers do any good, or are only by two actual Hold powers contributing to the fight? |
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| 2. Do any enhancements or set bonuses increase the magnitude of a hold (or sleep or fear or confuse) power, or just the duration? |
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3. Do multiple instances of a hold, sleep, fear or confuse power stack? I am pretty sure at least some of them do because I think I've hit a boss with a hold only to have him continue to attack me, and then when I hit him with my second hold, he's held. Thanks for any replies in advance. |
3) Multiple instances of the same mez type do stack with each other to increase magnitude. Different mez types don't stack together for increaseing magnitude. In stacking sleep, remember damage breaks sleep, so if the mob is being hit with damage as well, your not going to build magnitude on sleep.
2) enhancements and set bonuses only increase duration generally. With regards to increasing mag with a single application, you have domination which will double the magnitude of the hold. Getting back to enhancements, there is a proc in one of the hold sets that has a chance of a +2 hold, and a proc in one of the ranged sets that has a chance of a 3 mag hold. So assuming you had both procs in your ST hold, and the remaining four slots frankenslotted to give you half decent values, you would have a chance doing a mag 11 hold, but remember procs are unreliable. Also, Singilarity and some of the Patron and Incarnate pets are capable of doing holds, helping you to get enough mag on the target.
1) Most likely their wanting you to use your holds, since ALL doms and controllers have them, mind is the only set on live with a ST Confuse or Sleep.
Apologies in advance for the wall of text
If you want to increase the magnitude of your holds, you can sort of do it by slotting the Lockdown or Devastation procs into your hold.
These both add a 20% chance for an extra Mag 2, which will be enough to instantly hold a boss. When the extra hold does goes off, it adds an electrified sphere Tesla Cage graphic.
one note on Lockdown and Devestation, I don't believe Domination looks at either.
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You're correct. And thank you for stating how stacking works a bit clearer. I should have noted that each mez only stacks with it's on type.|
Originally Posted by Tocharon
one note on Lockdown and Devestation, I don't believe Domination looks at either.
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Here's a look at how those procs will work.
Devastation: 15% chance for a mag 2 hold
Lockdown: 15% chance for a mag 2 hold
If you slot one there is, naturally, a 15% chance for it to add an additional 2 magnitude to your hold. (The duration is limited, but I can't find that information off hand.) If you slot both there is 27.75% chance that either will fire on an individual target and a .75% that both will fire on that target.
The invention hold procs are 8 seconds to enemy NPCs, 6 seconds for players.
Thanks for all the responses!
As for this...
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If I understand that correctly, hitting the same foe with Mesmerize twice will not increase the magnitude of the sleep component since the power also has a damage component. Right?
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Originally Posted by Tocharon
In stacking sleep, remember damage breaks sleep, so if the mob is being hit with damage as well, your not going to build magnitude on sleep.
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(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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correct,|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Thanks for all the responses!
As for this... If I understand that correctly, hitting the same foe with Mesmerize twice will not increase the magnitude of the sleep component since the power also has a damage component. Right? |
mezmerize applies the damage componant first, then the sleep portion
the second hit with mezmerize breaks the sleep on the first hit, and then applies the sleep
on the second hit
contrast that with dominate, damage doesn't break the hold, and the second hit does apply the additional mag from the second hit
A related question is there anyway...other than trial and error to learn what controls don't work on some types of mobs. I don't think this is a stacking issue...
My elec dominator is learning the hard way that nemesis don't seem to be confused and I'm pretty sure huntsman cheat because even after something like 4 holds it only ends up lasting a second or two.
Yeah, some mobs have protection to one or more types of mez. It works just like player protection - you end up needing a higher mag of mez to overcome the mez protection. it's not necessarily that some mezzes flat out don't work, but that you're just not applying a high enough mag to affect them. Of course, some protection is high enough that it might as well be complete immunity - you're almost seeing this with the huntsmen, where you're only managing to stack enough mag for a couple seconds at a time before one of the stacks wears off.
Apart from experience, sometimes the enemy group entry on paragonwiki will note the mez protection in the list of powers available to various foes. It doesn't always show it, though.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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I am REALLY not sure about this. I routinely stack multiple sleeps after damage. I would suspect from my experience that sleep has its duration and its magnitude...while the 'sleeping' duration is cut short by damage, the magnitude remains (however ineffective) for the duration until another sleep is applied later, undisturbed.
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Originally Posted by Tocharon
3) Multiple instances of the same mez type do stack with each other to increase magnitude. Different mez types don't stack together for increaseing magnitude. In stacking sleep, remember damage breaks sleep, so if the mob is being hit with damage as well, your not going to build magnitude on sleep.
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Just waiting for the subject of the much dreaded Purple Triangles of Doom come up, he he
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Yeah, some mobs have protection to one or more types of mez. It works just like player protection - you end up needing a higher mag of mez to overcome the mez protection. it's not necessarily that some mezzes flat out don't work, but that you're just not applying a high enough mag to affect them. Of course, some protection is high enough that it might as well be complete immunity - you're almost seeing this with the huntsmen, where you're only managing to stack enough mag for a couple seconds at a time before one of the stacks wears off.
Apart from experience, sometimes the enemy group entry on paragonwiki will note the mez protection in the list of powers available to various foes. It doesn't always show it, though. |
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Sleep clearly breaks on damage. Try sleeping an Elite Boss with Mesmerize outside of Domination. It just isn't possible. Heck, buy a combat analyzer and you can monitor the magnitude of mez on the enemy and you'll see that damage removes any magnitude of sleep.
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Originally Posted by Seldom
I am REALLY not sure about this. I routinely stack multiple sleeps after damage. I would suspect from my experience that sleep has its duration and its magnitude...while the 'sleeping' duration is cut short by damage, the magnitude remains (however ineffective) for the duration until another sleep is applied later, undisturbed.
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there are 2 types of resistance to mezzes also (unless i am totally confused myself)|
Originally Posted by slythetic
A related question is there anyway...other than trial and error to learn what controls don't work on some types of mobs. I don't think this is a stacking issue...
My elec dominator is learning the hard way that nemesis don't seem to be confused and I'm pretty sure huntsman cheat because even after something like 4 holds it only ends up lasting a second or two. |
one increases the magnitude required for the mezz to take effect
the other decreases the duration of the mezz
so you may think you are stacking 4 holds on a mob, but the durations may be so short that only 2 are stacking.
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Mez Resists and Mez Protection|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
there are 2 types of resistance to mezzes also (unless i am totally confused myself)
one increases the magnitude required for the mezz to take effect the other decreases the duration of the mezz so you may think you are stacking 4 holds on a mob, but the durations may be so short that only 2 are stacking. |
Mez Protection = magnitude required for the mezz to take effect
Mez Resist = decreases the duration of the mezz
with regards to sleeps and high end content, is the AE sleep mind control has thats generally valued, it doesn't have damage, and has a reasonable duration and recharge when slotted( not to mention domination, and set recharge bonuses).
I haven't been on either a States or Lord Recluse Task/Strike Force in a while, but the trick was to sleep the AV's while your team beats up on the one not slept. W/O going into PTOD, AV's and EBs are more vulnerable to sleep and immobilize effects than other status effects( with some exceptions)
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for the first point all mitos have 500 confuse protection, you would have to have quite a lot of poeple to actually confuse them (the protection status is on the LGTF mitos but i assume its similar to the real deal)|
Originally Posted by ketch
Just you hold. It might be possible to confuse the green Mitos though. I'm not entirely sure, but you are trying to overcome their hold protection.
Yes. Holds, sleep, fear, confuse, stuns, and immobilizes all stack. Every mob has some rank based mez protection (EB = 6, Boss = 3, Lts. = 2, Minion = 1, GMs = 75) when you apply a mez it subtracts from that amount. Once a mob's mez protection is below 0 they are held, slept, etc. Be aware also of the purple triangle of doom (referred to as PToD) which grants a mob an extra 50 points of mez protection while active. You'll encounter this with AVs even when they are downgraded to EBs. |
on the second point i just wanted to add that the PTOD will not show up in combat attributes which makes it kind of hard to monitor from a distance
Mez protection from PToD does show up if you look at combat attributes via the Power Analyzer. You'll see it granted by the power Resistance if you look at any of the mez protections. Rank based protections, on the other hand, are not displayed by the combat attributes.
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fix't |
Originally Posted by Tocharon
..mind and illusion are the only sets on live with a ST Confuse or Sleep.
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perma jump is ---> /up 1
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Well, actually...|
Originally Posted by Hindenburg
fix't
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Originally Posted by Tocharon
...mind, illusion, dark, and fortunata teamwork are the only sets on live with a ST Confuse or Sleep.
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Despite my Mind/Fire dom being my favorite character, there are a few things about Mind Control I've never really been sure about and never actually asked anyone about:
1. On a Hami raid, we Doms and controllers are told to "Spam [our] holds," against the green mitos. Does using my sleep, fear, and confuse powers do any good, or are only by two actual Hold powers contributing to the fight?
2. Do any enhancements or set bonuses increase the magnitude of a hold (or sleep or fear or confuse) power, or just the duration?
3. Do multiple instances of a hold, sleep, fear or confuse power stack? I am pretty sure at least some of them do because I think I've hit a boss with a hold only to have him continue to attack me, and then when I hit him with my second hold, he's held.
Thanks for any replies in advance.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon