Superhero License...


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Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
so even with the ability to know something it is not like everyone does know it.
Yes, that's been pretty much my position here, so we might be talking past each other a bit. You can have a secret identity - most of the population won't know who you are. Some people will be able to figure it out, if you ever give them sufficient reason to try (such as, say, by getting in the way of their nefarious goals?)


 

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Knowing that it might be an issue and knowing that there are ways to help with I think you could create IDs that incorporate magic and tech to prevent most people from learning a hero's ID.
Most people already don't know who your hero is.

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Not 100% but pretty close to it and the FBSA would issue them as one of the concession law makers made to get hero support for the laws.
The government is not going to give a license to serve as a state actor in law enforcement to someone it can't identify. Not. Going. To. Happen. Anything such a "hero" did would be thrown out of court.

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So you know Madonna's or Prince's real names?
Madonna is Louise Ciccone. Prince, IIRC, is Roger Nelson. I didn't have to Google either.

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I would argue even well known people aren't all that well known by real names...
Which, as noted above, has nothing to do with the point.

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If magic and psychic powers existed and i had a way to help prevent my agents' mind from being scanned and their identities revealed I'd use it.
Which gets us back to, "it is implausible that every hero or villain has infallible means of confounding every exotic method of inquiry". You cast spells to screw with magical scrying, the enemy uses a technological scanner instead, or hires a better mage to break your spells.

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We live in a world where a good number of people know these people and yet don't know their names even though the information is rather easy to look up so even with the ability to know something it is not like everyone does know it.
No one is saying everyone is going to know who your hero is. This has been made very, very clear repeatedly. The point is that anyone who really wants to will be able to break a secret identity, one way or another. Hell, IIRC back in a 80s Spectacular Spider-Man story some college kids trying to prank Spidey almost broke his secret ID just by logging his movements around the city.


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Originally Posted by Venture View Post
I'm not. N.b. that Twinshot knows who "Justin Sinclair" is, and she's a relative nobody. Real names of canon characters are bandied about without much fanfare. Again, the average schlub on the street probably doesn't know who "Jessica Megan Duncan" is, but anyone with a cape probably does, and Malta can tell you what color panties she's wearing today.
The City of Heroes signature characters have no secret identities. They really never have. We know them by their real names, and those are in their character profiles, as well. Everybody knows who these people are. What's weirder to me is why we keep referring to them by those goofy names they picked for themselves instead of referring to them by their real names, like in Praetoria? I mean, I keep using them because I - the player - just can't seem to remember most of their. I know the Statesman is Marcus Cole, I know Manticore is Justin Sinclair, but I don't remember what Liberty is (Something Duncan, I think), I don't remember what Psyche's name is (Something Tillman?) and so on.

Personally, I get around the problem of secret identities by not having secret identities. Never was a fan of the basic concept. I grew up more on animé and video games, very often taking part in a world where this kind of fighting is commonplace, so that's what I modelled my characters after. They're not "common people" who developed super powers, they're super-powered beings without common lives. I have a few that do have more common lives, of course, but they're the exception, rather than the rule.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Most importantly, of course, we know about our own stories and explanations, even when they fly in the face of all these established "facts". I believe firmly that the lore is not established on facts, but on facts that seem necessary at the time, in each instance of the universe, experienced by each player character. This is our lead designer's own belief about the way his team should approach established facts, and it fits a comic book universe that is host to many thousands of writers, if you include us and our stories. This is our world too. When we create our characters and their stories, we help create the world. Our bios don't exist in a vacuum, and in that sense our separate experiences aren't islands, but neither do we have to seek approval for our creations.

I posted that today in response to an RP thread, where the OP doesn't quite have the delivery possessed by Venture, and is under fire for informing other players exactly what sort of game world they all live in. Here is an example of what I mean by "under fire."

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Originally Posted by Ardrea View Post
You must die inside a little whenever you see someone fall off a building and survive.

I felt you first post was overly preachy and more of a peeve than actual advice; regardless of how you intended it to sound. This latest one though, this is just silly. Almost nothing in the game world is accurate or realistic, and trying to pin down a whole genre of character concepts to fit your conceptions of what they should be based on your own limited interpretation of a narrow real-world field is just over the top. People's characters are inspired by a long tradition of comic literature and lore that is evidently beyond you.

Excuse me now, my character needs to go pick up a cache of enriched plutonium one of these street thugs happened across, and I need to get it done between dawn and dusk, which as you know is a fifteen minute window. It's okay though, since I run at 60 miles per hour, even while wearing a ridiculous costume. Mostly I worry about gunfire from snipers on local buildings, but since bullets only travel a hundred feet or so, and rarely break skin when they hit, I think I'll make it.
Not quite how I would have said it. But I empathize with the feeling of frustration, in trying to explain why it is I think this game was made purposefully vague in places. Those broad, empty spots are not for Venture to fill in. They're for you to fill in. And by you, I mean whoever is reading this (which means Venture too ). I waited all of my life to play this awesome super hero game in the tradition of the comic books, where a simple mask is still good enough, darn-it. I go to comic books because they're a light read, often as a break from science fiction that takes itself more seriously. For me, this game is an extension of that. So, thanks, Venture, but no thanks.


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And no one needs to point out that this isn't the most sane and reasonable interpretation of the whole game universe, or that I might have overstated Positron's position. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't.

However, this is the ONLY option for anyone whose characters live in a universe based not just on canon lore, but their own lore and that of their fellow RPers. I accepted a long time ago that I could not separate these facets without completely invalidating my own experiences and the experiences of my in-game friends. And that's not fun.

The only solution is to live in a truly whacky universe. The water's fine over here. Really.

Identity crises happen occasionally in the comics, but they're not lurking around every corner. In the game, I can walk into the strangest situations without worrying about it, if the current plot (or my current plot) doesn't have an identity crisis on tap that evening.

At the end of the day, for most RPers, these are just stories we're telling. You go with the method that best tells the story. In comics especially, don't let those pesky little details stop you. I love the comics because I've taught myself not to take them too seriously.


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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
The City of Heroes signature characters have no secret identities. They really never have. We know them by their real names, and those are in their character profiles, as well. Everybody knows who these people are. What's weirder to me is why we keep referring to them by those goofy names they picked for themselves instead of referring to them by their real names, like in Praetoria? I mean, I keep using them because I - the player - just can't seem to remember most of their. I know the Statesman is Marcus Cole, I know Manticore is Justin Sinclair, but I don't remember what Liberty is (Something Duncan, I think), I don't remember what Psyche's name is (Something Tillman?) and so on.
Think of it sort of like referring to someone on the job versus after retirement, or meeting them socially, etc. "Look, at work, I'm Director So-and-so. After 5, it's Jim."

Here, on the job it's Superguy. Off the job, it's Nelson Periwinkle von Flufenhauser.


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Given that a solid half of the characters that I see running around the city either look like or explicitly state in their description that they are some kind of robot, demigod, demon, alien, apparition, homunculus, et cetera, it seems like any serious consideration of the super hero license as anything but an attempt to tie character creation together back when the vast majority of existing costume parts were pretty standard superhero stuff will fall apart when the de jure roleplay ideas slam into the de facto reality of the game as it's played, i.e. by a wide variety of character concepts that would have no use for a secret identity in the first place. Exhale.


 

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Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
So you know Madonna's or Prince's real names?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
I... don't see how that counters what he said about the real world being short on crystal balls, for one thing.
Yeah, none of us followed that example. I mean, all I need is access to freakin' GOOGLE.


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Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
This would only get much, much worse if hackers had literally superhuman or magical powers, especially in such a wide variety of ways as we have here in the Cityverse.
Hmm, a hacker who uses magic...or maybe someone with the ability to 'hack' magic?

I'm sure it's been done! But anyone have any source material? This may be the workings of a new character for me

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Originally Posted by Venture View Post
Madonna is Louise Ciccone. Prince, IIRC, is Roger Nelson. I didn't have to Google either.
Obviously, Madonna and Prince have foiled one to many of Venture's schemes and now he's plotting to get rid of them once and for all, to which their real identities were necessary.

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
The City of Heroes signature characters have no secret identities. They really never have. We know them by their real names, and those are in their character profiles, as well. Everybody knows who these people are. What's weirder to me is why we keep referring to them by those goofy names they picked for themselves instead of referring to them by their real names, like in Praetoria? I mean, I keep using them because I - the player - just can't seem to remember most of their. I know the Statesman is Marcus Cole, I know Manticore is Justin Sinclair, but I don't remember what Liberty is (Something Duncan, I think), I don't remember what Psyche's name is (Something Tillman?) and so on.
Running around with random heroes, you're bound to team up with someone with the same 'name' like Justin or Sinclair...may just be easier to remember and call someone by a code name.

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Originally Posted by Stormbird View Post

Here, on the job it's Superguy. Off the job, it's Nelson Periwinkle von Flufenhauser.
....I think I'll just call you SG for short >_>


 

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I know of at least two "magic hacker" type books.

Both have some poor mundane schmuck pulled from our world to another.

One is Rick Cook's Wizard's Bane

That's ones interesting because complex spells take on a form...

His Rapid Deployment Recon Drone (R2D2) takes on a familiar form...

Then there is S. Andrew Swann's Broken Crescent.

Guy gets put into a world where ages ago, due to two gods making a bet, man went from enslaved to the enslaver of the world's original humanoid race, and did some nasty magic on them. And so the magicians of that world hate change and do not allow research.

Also, the guy happens to mention he (as a former black hat hacker) used the name Azrael - a name auto translated to "Angel of Death" by the mages' artifact (as they don't speak the hero's language), the name for the figure the original race's god gave to the tall, pale skinned human "who would teach them more of his language (the magic language) than even he could".

Anyway - in both books the "Magic Language" tends to follow the rules of good computer programming.

In the later the guy even designs a virus


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I believe security level advancement is currently held by the super secret organization called F.A.R.M. They took over when official channels couldn't keep up with how quickly new heroes would rise through the security levels (it actually doesn't sound COMPLETELY implausible)


 

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The majority of my characters are simple incapable of having a "secret identity". Kinda hard to disguise a 8.5 foot cyborg that looks like a Rhino and an Abhrams tanks had a love affair as anything else.

However there are a couple characters that while they don't go as far as duel lives or anything, they don't exactly broadcast that they are super heroes. One being an introverted extremely shy 22 year old woman just can't look someone in the face and so is very unlikely to get to a point of being able to talk to someone long enough to bring up the topic of super powers.

Another character is a school teacher that is technically speaking a magical trans-sexual. Yeah... if that little note got loose imagine how fast some parents would stop paying tuition for their kids.

In both cases it's not that they try and deceive everyone around them, they are simply selective about who knows it. The teacher has to transform into his alternate form to use his powers, so someone casually recognizing him is unlikely, while the woman wears a full head mask so people can't meet her eyes so same point.




 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Hmm, a hacker who uses magic...or maybe someone with the ability to 'hack' magic?

I'm sure it's been done! But anyone have any source material? This may be the workings of a new character for me
There are a few forms of Magic and technology forms...

Magitek from FF6 is an example of Technology that is powered by magic as fuel so that it can uses magic in it's raw form.

There is Code/Lingual Magic which is a form of technology where the person is able to "hack" the universe to cause something to happen either through some means... for example Feng Shui is technically a form of this where it takes the arrangement of items to produce a result such as increased wealth. It's also used in Doctor Who in the episode where he goes to Shakespeare's time

There is technology which is imbued with magical properties such a remote that can control the universe

There is Magic that acts like technology where for example if you had a treasure chest and placed a lock spell on it that lock spell would summon something to input a password to unlock it.

Then there are the various combinations... like where a keyboard is a regular keyboard but you can add magic to it that causes a magic keyboard to expand from it that allows you to input commands to perform magic spells like say a fire ball...

It's a fairly common concept >.>


 

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I have one hero who has a secret identity. The organization he works for provided false documents and records to register.


Another, a magic user, caste a spell to create a hero I.D. and within the system.


So both have their secret identities covered up within the registry system.


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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
I know of at least two "magic hacker" type books.

Both have some poor mundane schmuck pulled from our world to another.

One is Rick Cook's Wizard's Bane

....


Then there is S. Andrew Swann's Broken Crescent.

...


Anyway - in both books the "Magic Language" tends to follow the rules of good computer programming.

In the later the guy even designs a virus
Coolio! Thanks, I'll look into them.

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Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
There are a few forms of Magic and technology forms...


It's a fairly common concept >.>
Not looking for the concept of Magic + Technology (I've got, like a dozen characters in this game who use 'magitech', half of which are the same person (her name is even Magitech Maiden) and my main character owning a company that develops such things for common citizens). I've got that down and narrowed some themes, from using the voices of sirens and the wails of the dead as weapons harnessed through sound systems to just devices powered by spirits channeled through runes.

Currently working on a character who basically has dozens of grimoires on kindle and an automated search engine. A form of 'archive/database magic' leaned more toward magic with the aid of technology.

The specific concept of hacking with some element of magic to it is what I'm aiming to read about. For making such a character in-game? I don't care if I can or not, just interested in where the concept has gone and where I could take it.

Note: I'm not a hacker, nor have knowledge of what a hacker is capable of. And a magician/sorcerer can do practically anything...mix that together and I've got nothing so far >_>