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All of this, but especially the purple,this is SO correct i cant even stress it enough, i admit those three have some nice things (mostly SD)(to me EA is just SR but way better) but i just cant compare them to EA, the ocasional nice thing compared to all the awesome things EA has? forget about it|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Go tell controllers and doms that end drain is not mitigation. How much have you actually played EA, and at what level of build? Because the performance issues you say you have seen seem to be different than what the rest of us are seeing.
You are putting SR, WP, and Shield over a set that can achieve the same def numbers, has a click heal, a click end drain, and +rech to make both up faster? I get the impression you are intentionally missing a point. You also seem to think that SR, WP, and Shield have no weak points. Yeah, continuing the conversation is pointless. I will wait let someone else take this up. Me, I am going to make a Staff/Ea toon as soon as it hit live. |
<edit> also, you act like there is these HUGE weaknesses in EA, lol give me ONE secondary with no holes, if anything id say EA is one of the MOST capable of dealing with holes, gotta hole? theres a heal for that!
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Regards, Four-Cee-Three
I was just coming to ask about Energy Aura, so I might as well put my question here.
Is it viable without using the invisibility toggle? I would prefer to see my character, but I don't want to gimp myself to do so. Also, does it pair well with Kinetic Melee? I am considering rerolling a KM/INV as a KM/EA.
Thanks for any help.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
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It is viable w/o Energy Cloak, but it is better with. It suppresses the invisible effect when you attack any way. I suggest taking it, I three slotted it on all of my EA builds. I also prefer to see my toons, so I just turn it off when I am between missions. |
Originally Posted by Danaid
I was just coming to ask about Energy Aura, so I might as well put my question here.
Is it viable without using the invisibility toggle? I would prefer to see my character, but I don't want to gimp myself to do so. Also, does it pair well with Kinetic Melee? I am considering rerolling a KM/INV as a KM/EA. Thanks for any help. |
The +rech that it has works really well with KM, it allows for CS to be up more often, which in turn gives PS a chance to be up more. KM also reduces mob damage, which means when you get hit, it is not as hard. KM is a set that really blooms with more recharge.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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absolutley, i take advantage of it, it gives a quite nice def bonus
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Originally Posted by Danaid
I was just coming to ask about Energy Aura, so I might as well put my question here.
Is it viable without using the invisibility toggle? I would prefer to see my character, but I don't want to gimp myself to do so. Also, does it pair well with Kinetic Melee? I am considering rerolling a KM/INV as a KM/EA. Thanks for any help. |
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Regards, Four-Cee-Three
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KM/EA is what I would term as a WONDERFUL combo. Lots of synergy and a TON of fun to play.
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Originally Posted by Danaid
I was just coming to ask about Energy Aura, so I might as well put my question here.
Is it viable without using the invisibility toggle? I would prefer to see my character, but I don't want to gimp myself to do so. Also, does it pair well with Kinetic Melee? I am considering rerolling a KM/INV as a KM/EA. Thanks for any help. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Thing is, most of us aren't going to be sitting against a wall spamming Energy Drain until a bunch of +1 mobs lose all their endurance before attacking. You aren't playing a Controller. Your role is DPS. One Energy Drain is not enough to drain a +1 minion's endurance bar completely. All the minions should be dead by the time the next ED is up anyway.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Go tell controllers and doms that end drain is not mitigation. How much have you actually played EA, and at what level of build? Because the performance issues you say you have seen seem to be different than what the rest of us are seeing.
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| You are putting SR, WP, and Shield over a set that can achieve the same def numbers, has a click heal, a click end drain, and +rech to make both up faster? I get the impression you are intentionally missing a point. |
Since SR seems to be taking the most heat let's do a hypothetical comparison based on real and achievable numbers.
Assume an /SR and /EA both have 59% defense (Incarnate soft-cap) in their respective fields (which I don't think EA can achieve without at least one application of ED) and Perma-Hasten.
Right away, /EA's advantages are endurance management and a heal that /SR doesn't have. How does /SR make up for this? Conserve Power and Rebirth Destiny. Now, /SR's advantages over EA? No hole to most psychic attacks or toxic. 95%+ DDR. How does /EA make up for this? Not sure it can. Rebirth will help when you run into psi/toxic but you can't expect it to be up every time, which will limit you running in first in scenarios like Lambda (psi enemies around Acids+Nades) or Underground Trial (Multiple Devoured bosses per group that spit toxic). Barrier shouldn't even be considered IMO on a Defense based character. /EA can't do anything about raising its DDR effectively either.
We all play our characters differently. If an /EA isn't running into trouble with psi/toxic enemies, then they're not the ones taking alphas or speeding objectives in a group map set at higher level of difficulties (whether it be +4 missions or iTrials) when they are present. Hence, my point that /EA is weaker when it comes to running tougher end-game content.
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You're talking about things in a void again. IF you're running "tougher end-game content", you will most likely be on a team. That means defense buffs (giving a buffer to DDR), Resistance buffs (meaning the hits you take will hurt much less), or healing (completely negating any damage you took). Any or all of those will solve problems that either set faces.|
Originally Posted by Polydeuces
Since SR seems to be taking the most heat let's do a hypothetical comparison based on real and achievable numbers.
Assume an /SR and /EA both have 59% defense (Incarnate soft-cap) in their respective fields (which I don't think EA can achieve without at least one application of ED) and Perma-Hasten. Right away, /EA's advantages are endurance management and a heal that /SR doesn't have. How does /SR make up for this? Conserve Power and Rebirth Destiny. Now, /SR's advantages over EA? No hole to most psychic attacks or toxic. 95%+ DDR. How does /EA make up for this? Not sure it can. Rebirth will help when you run into psi/toxic but you can't expect it to be up every time, which will limit you running in first in scenarios like Lambda (psi enemies around Acids+Nades) or Underground Trial (Multiple Devoured bosses per group that spit toxic). Barrier shouldn't even be considered IMO on a Defense based character. /EA can't do anything about raising its DDR effectively either. We all play our characters differently. If an /EA isn't running into trouble with psi/toxic enemies, then they're not the ones taking alphas or speeding objectives in a group map set at higher level of difficulties (whether it be +4 missions or iTrials) when they are present. Hence, my point that /EA is weaker when it comes to running tougher end-game content. |
Also, Overload gives increased DDR, for the record. I forget exactly how much, but EA can increase it in panic situations.
I feel you are either trolling or for some reason feel the need to hate on EA, you see the evidence that we have provided and you turn your head and ignore it, have you eveer played a 50 EA? its not this weak lil toon if it was made right, i would pit a EA against a SR Anyday, and the EA would come out on top 9/10 times
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Regards, Four-Cee-Three
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If you're content with staying inside the herd, sure. But even a Blaster could achieve the same numbers with all the buffs flying around.|
Originally Posted by Kazz
You're talking about things in a void again. IF you're running "tougher end-game content", you will most likely be on a team. That means defense buffs (giving a buffer to DDR), Resistance buffs (meaning the hits you take will hurt much less), or healing (completely negating any damage you took). Any or all of those will solve problems that either set faces.
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Originally Posted by 4c3Player
I feel you are either trolling or for some reason feel the need to hate on EA, you see the evidence that we have provided and you turn your head and ignore it, have you eveer played a 50 EA? its not this weak lil toon if it was made right, i would pit a EA against a SR Anyday, and the EA would come out on top 9/10 times
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Several of us think you are just trolling at this point, but what ever.|
Originally Posted by Polydeuces
Showing so much favoritism that you think I'm hating on /EA? Yes, I have a 50+3 KM/EA. It's one of my favorite characters and I've mentioned how great it was to level an /EA already. But is it as capable as my MA/SR in iTrials? Nope, for reasons already mentioned. Tone down the bias a bit please.
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I have a lvl 50 +3 TW Brute, and a lvl 50 +1 Staff/EA scrapper. Both played from level 1-50. To be very clear my favorite secondary is Electric Armor, which strolls through all the content you have mentioned. However we are talking about Energy Armor, which is my second favorite.
My play style is not much different that what you describe what yours to be, but I think my build style may be. See my energy drain DOES bottom out all but EBs and AVs on the first hit. Part of that may be because I went with Agility, and another part may be that I slotted it to do it. I can also use an Interface to keep that end bar low if I want.
Today on test I was able to stack the def buff from energy drain 3 times with the staff toon, most I can get with TW toon is two, but I also have not slotted any purples in him.
I will take a moment to be confident in what I have done. In 7 years playing this game, there is just not much I haven't done. EA is as good as most, and better than many. Of the three you named SD is the only one I feel is on par with EA.
Do you not find it odd that we are all arguing against you? I am surprised EvilGeko or Brand X has not stepped in yet.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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If your KM/EA is not as capable (only based on secondary, not bringing in primaries) as your MA/SR then your EA wasent built to its optimal capabilities|
Originally Posted by Polydeuces
If you're content with staying inside the herd, sure. But even a Blaster could achieve the same numbers with all the buffs flying around.
Showing so much favoritism that you think I'm hating on /EA? Yes, I have a 50+3 KM/EA. It's one of my favorite characters and I've mentioned how great it was to level an /EA already. But is it as capable as my MA/SR in iTrials? Nope, for reasons already mentioned. Tone down the bias a bit please. |
/EA is almost everything SR is and more!, heres my evidence
SR advantages
Surperior DDP
Typed defenses, helps against Psi
Similarities
similar base defense numbers(one is positional, the other is typed, but similar values)
EA advantages
Heal
self+endurance
Stacking+ rech
Resistance
endurance drain resistance
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Regards, Four-Cee-Three
Personally, I hate sets with glaring holes like EA. Little or no psi/toxic protection already makes it subpar, but then you add in mediocre DDR to compound the problem. I understand that it has plenty of novelty, but I would never try to powergame on an EA. SR, while more mundane, is simply better from a maximum potential point of view - especially when combined with Rebirth.
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OK, but if you're assuming Conserve Power for the /SR, you have to consider that the /EA can have Hibernate/Fireball/Shadow Meld instead. Rebirth + Energize will help more against a DE Quartz or Veng-stacked Nemesis than the SR using just Rebirth. I find psi in Lambda or toxic in UG to be a complete non-issue on almost any character, especially since we're counting Destiny, which means you're at least +2 and probably +3.|
Originally Posted by Polydeuces
Right away, /EA's advantages are endurance management and a heal that /SR doesn't have. How does /SR make up for this? Conserve Power and Rebirth Destiny. Now, /SR's advantages over EA? No hole to most psychic attacks or toxic. 95%+ DDR. How does /EA make up for this? Not sure it can. Rebirth will help when you run into psi/toxic but you can't expect it to be up every time, which will limit you running in first in scenarios like Lambda (psi enemies around Acids+Nades) or Underground Trial (Multiple Devoured bosses per group that spit toxic). Barrier shouldn't even be considered IMO on a Defense based character. /EA can't do anything about raising its DDR effectively either.
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For the DDR problem, there's always Ageless.
/SR does do better in some edge cases, but IMX they are indeed edge cases, while /EA's advantages come into play much more often.
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This
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
OK, but if you're assuming Conserve Power for the /SR, you have to consider that the /EA can have Hibernate/Fireball/Shadow Meld instead. Rebirth + Energize will help more against a DE Quartz or Veng-stacked Nemesis than the SR using just Rebirth. I find psi in Lambda or toxic in UG to be a complete non-issue on almost any character, especially since we're counting Destiny, which means you're at least +2 and probably +3.
For the DDR problem, there's always Ageless. /SR does do better in some edge cases, but IMX they are indeed edge cases, while /EA's advantages come into play much more often. |
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Regards, Four-Cee-Three
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What advantages? EA's only real leg up on SR is the heal... and it's on such a long timer that it becomes an emergency power more than anything. |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
/SR does do better in some edge cases, but IMX they are indeed edge cases, while /EA's advantages come into play much more often.
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Quickness -vs- Entropic aura: it's a wash! constant 20% rech vs inconsistent aura values.
Energy drain? End sapping with a single power is a novelty. And End sapping without an aura such as lightning field to keep your enemies bottomed out? Pointless. If you're using this skill for endurance management, you should likely implement IO's more wisely (unless you have no IO access).
In the end, you're comparing a heal every 40 seconds to superior survivability. I'd rather have the ability to withstand an onslaught and not have my defense values debuffed than being able to heal every now and again. That's what rebirth is for.
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Stealth, a heal, massive endurance management, consistent resists, a taunt aura?|
Originally Posted by kinaki
What advantages? EA's only real leg up on SR is the heal... and it's on such a long timer that it becomes an emergency power more than anything.
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I mean, we can go back and forth all day on which set's advantages are better, but to pretend that /EA's dont exist is a bit silly.
Stealth, you don't need full stealth on a defense character. Use an IO and be done with it.
A heal, already referenced.
Endurance management, already referenced.
Resists? Pretty anemic to use as a selling point.
Taunt aura, ok, this one's applicable, but only because we're on the scrapper forum.
10-30% resistance is better than 0% resistance.
Full stealth is better than partial stealth.
Endurance management is better than no endurance management.
All of these are direct advantages over SR.
I also think you're selling Energize quite short. It's not as fast as Healing Flames, but you can get it within a few seconds of perma without great difficulty.
How valuable you personally consider these advantages doesn't mean they aren't advantages. Indeed, IMX the advantages being touted for SR are far less significant than these. I've very rarely been able to get a build with good enough endurance management for what I try to do using just IOs, I almost always need to use Cardiac or endurance powers (and even a really good IO build will suffer from recovery debuffs/end drain in a way that Energy Drain/Energize completely negates). I find partial stealth far less useful than full stealth.
The thing is, you can turn an SR into a behemoth, endgame. You won't need EA's bag of tricks because you won't [5%] get hit. The fact remains that EA has two major holes you won't be able to cover up no matter how much inf you throw at the problem.
My original point stands: SR has better potential. If you want to just log in every now and again and not obsessively try taking on anything and everything, both sets have their place. But, as for the OP's crown for "best" defense secondary, I would certainly not give it to EA.
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IMX, the "major holes" that you "cannot cover" are complete non-issues on any character, including ones with even bigger "vulnerabilities" to them than /EA has. They are ALREADY covered. I also find that a hole you really can't cover with inf and insps, namely massive tohit buffs, are worse for /SR than any other secondary. /SR does have advantages; if you like them, great, but they are not objectively better than /EA's advantages. The fact that we've reached 3 pages going back and forth about this pretty clearly says it's a YMMV issue.
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Originally Posted by kinaki
The thing is, you can turn an SR into a behemoth, endgame. You won't need EA's bag of tricks because you won't [5%] get hit. The fact remains that EA has two major holes you won't be able to cover up no matter how much inf you throw at the problem.
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I'm surprised no one mentioned that you can occasionally get out of Overload without really getting hit by the crash.
There have been plenty of times where a well timed use of Energy Absorption as you crash grants end and prevents toggle crashing. I've done this on accident even and failed to notice that Overload even crashed.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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I'm going to simplify the numbers a little bit to make this clearer. |
Originally Posted by Polydeuces
The click heal is not amazing. Reconstruction recharges in half the time and Healing Flames in a third.
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When slotted:
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hp% / minute Other effects Recon 100% 15% res to Toxic H.Flames 150% 15% res to Toxic Energize 50% (+25%) 60% end redux
EA isn't some godlike set. But it's not as crappy as you and others seem to want to portray it.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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Shh. Nothing to see here move along. |
Originally Posted by Stupid_Fanboy
I'm surprised no one mentioned that you can occasionally get out of Overload without really getting hit by the crash.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
On the contrary to what youve said about it not being well rounded i find its MORE well rounded i feel it takes aspects from most, if not ALL the other secondaries
Self Heal-FA
a little Res-WP
Self + End-FA
Great Defense-SR/SD
self+rech-SR/elec
I find EA the best of all these secondaries as it has some of the best aspects of them
personally i have little problems with carnies/arachnos or any psi, ran a +4 kill all lady grey TF and i ocassionaly took a diff path than the team and soloed mobs with only mild difficulty, if somthing is gonna hurt youwith psi Rikti will, they have alot of psi if you havent noticed, those holes arent quite so gaping eh?
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Regards, Four-Cee-Three