Scrapper + Tanker = Brute????

Is it me or is this equation true? It seems like the Brute is the perfect moderate combination of the best parts of both the scrapper and tanker. So my question would be if the primary and secondary power sets for all three are pretty much the same (obviously there are some differences) and the biggest separation is the inherent powers, is the Brute the best Melee archetype to choose!!!!!

I use to think this until I rolled all three AT's and played them well into the late levels.

Broadly speaking, yes. But it really depends.... on what you want, what suits your style of play, and on what particular sets you want to play.

Based on the fact that I have more brutes on Pinnacle than all the other archetypes combined... it appears that I've come to agree that brutes > the other melee AT.

However, I solo most of the time. Were I a team oriented player, I'd have more tanks.

If I ever crank up a dark/shield character or even kinetic/shield again, it would be a scrapper because of the way damage buffs work.

There are some significant differences:

A scrapper's melee attacks do 1.5x as much base damage as a Brute's (before Fury). Assuming both AT's powers are slotted at +95% damage (3x SOs), the brute would need a 97.5% damage buff from Fury to match the Scrapper's damage...and that doesn't include the chance a scrapper has to critically hit. (Note: Brute fury can fairly easily reach the 97.5% level and higher, but it does introduce an element of warm-up and cool-down). As the enhancement levels get higher (ie, Incarnate buff from Musculature, Build Up, Global Damage from Inventions, team damage buffs), a brute needs more and more of a boost from Fury or other sources to keep up.

Scrappers receive a +100% damage buff from Build Up, while Brutes receive +80% damage. When base damage is taken into account, a Scrapper's Build Up is responsible for nearly twice as much damage as a brute's.

Brutes do have a substantial advantage in the lower levels over scrappers, where Fury can easily reach levels higher than enhancements and self-buff powers otherwise provide.



Brute defensive powers aren't quite as potent as a tanker's. A tanker's defense and resist powers have a base effectiveness 33.3% stronger than a brute's, and their self-heal powers are at a base 25% stronger than a brute's. While the maximums for a Tanker and a Brute are effectively the same for Defense and Resistance, a brute (typically) has to work a lot harder to get their resistance to such a level (something of an exception - "specialized" resistances like Fire Resistance in Fire Armor and Energy Resistance in Electric Armor are easy to hit cap with, whether a brute or a tank - but the tank will still have better resistances to everything else)

A Tank AoE taunts enemies when it attacks. A brute only taunts what it hits.


In general - a scrapper is the best melee AT for hurting things
a tanker is the best melee AT for survivability and taking Aggro
a brute balances both aspects fairly well

There is a lot of "realness" to this. I have run Brutes as my main archtype for a long time. I always felt this way. My particular favorite, SS/Invul, runs very well on SOs or incredible on I/Os. I have run a tank at the incarnate level for a couple months, only on that character, and with a complete I/O build. I just leveled and 50+3 incarnate shifted a Scrapper to use as my new main because I need a lot of up-front burst damage for what I intend to do with it.

A well made I/O'd Tank is nigh unkillable, except by the new incarnate trial weirdness. I have made a small lobbying effort to make tanks partially able to resist some of this stuff. A Tank sits at the junction of you cannot kill me and I will dominate your attention. It is a very useful AT.

I love Brutes. You can make a Brute almost as unkillable as a Tank, although in doing so you have to make choices that tend to reduce the damage you can put out. You can make a Brute that can match Scrapper damage over a long time (or exceed it!). You will need to make choices that will leave you less "Tanky." My favorite, the SS/Invul Brute sits right at the apex of that curve where you are getting the most damage and the most survivability out of a Brute. The set combination has its problems, and can be boring to play. It drives like a semi-truck. There is nothing subtle about it or the strategy used for it. No damage aura, but the best build up power in the game.

The new Scrapper I made is very nice. I chose Elec/Elec because of concept. A nice damage aura. I softcapped him to S/L. He has a good amount of AoE and does really good damage. The last level and a half I did in an AE arc, +2/x8 Freaks, and it was taking just a few minutes per bar. I probably could have went faster but I was cautiously doing inspiration mgt the entire time. Plus that kept me in reds. The entire 15 bars probably took about an hour or less. That includes Re-setting up the AE mish/leveling to 49/etc. I was impressed with the kill speed. The only Brute I ever made I could compare is a SS/FA/Mu I heavily I/O'd. And he was squishier IMO, but maybe I just wasn't clever enough in that build.

Anyways, those are my thoughts and play experiences on Melees Archtypes, a world I enjoy.

I think the equation works a little better as (Scrapper + Tank) / 2 = Brute

The brute truly lies someplace in the middle of the two, and that is what makes it so appealing. Like the tank's toughness and aggro control, but can't stand the damage? brute. Like the scrapper's damage output but want something a little more survivable out-of-the-box? brute.

Typically, I personally prefer a scrapper, but it's hard to ignore the brute's more consistent damage output once it gets going. Criticals may push the average scrapper's DPS above that of an average brute, but as they say, random is random.

I always wanted an AT that was like a tank with better dps. With a Brute I get Nearly a Tanker + Nearly a Scrapper, which is the perfect balance for me.

As others have said, a Tanker will generally outperform a Brute in terms of pure survivability and aggro management, and a Scrapper can outperform a Brute in terms of dps under the right circumstances. So if you want a specialist in one area or the other, I imagine Tankers and Scrappers are better choices. But for an AT that gives you very nearly the same performance as both in one package, it can't be beat for certain styles of play (i.e., "I want to be uber useful but I don't need to be 100% maxed out in one particular area of the game").

I think the original design of Brutes was that, yes.

IIRC, the Villain ATs were originally designed along these lines:
Brute = Scrapper + Tanker
Corruptor = Blaster + Defender/Controller (Secondaries)
Dominator = Controller + Blaster (Secondaries)
Mastermind = Tanker
Stalker = Scrapper

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If all you care about are the numbers, brutes are better. Brutes have the largest melee performance envelope by a considerable margin. But I find brutes to have very little grace, or style. Simple SMASH is not very satisfying after a while.

But scrappers? Scrappers have style, baby. It's not called 'brutelock' after all. Going all wild-eyed, dodging defeat with every second of the fight, chugging your whole inspiration tray, WINNING....then diving straight into the next spawn without pausing? That's scrapperlock, and it's awesome.

And Tankers.... Well-played, tanks are the strategic masters of the battlefield. Tankers at the top end run fast but smoooth, baby. You're always on the go, but never in a rush, you're never frantic. It's all about calm maneuver, assessment of the situation, and driving the pace of conflict. Nirvana in combat, man.