PB WS Disparity

So I've enjoyed my human form WS since incarnates came out and let him have perma mez protection (In addition to some other great things) and finally decided to dust my PB off, re IO him and see what I could do.

As I've started to run through content I feel like there are some glaring gaps between the two builds where so much is mirrored.

Tier 1 2 and 3 attacks are mirrors of each other, all well and good. In my mind some powers are mirrors even though they are functionally different. (Inky aspect vs. Essence Boost, both mitigate damage. One lets you mitigate pretty much all minion damage in melee range, the other heals you and boosts your max HP, things like that)

That being said I feel like there are a few areas where things could be brought closer in line with the others abilities.

Radiant Strike vs. Essence Drain damage scales. Siphon life was adjusted for Dark Melee yet this power has been overlooked.

Gravity Well vs. Incandescent Strike activation time. Same damage, the latter randomly animates a full second slower.

Pulsar vs. Gravitic Emmination. Pulsar requires you to be in melee, has 3x the animation time, no damage, AND lower base accuracy.

Photon Seekers vs. Dark Extraction - I actually feel like Photon seekers are better compared to unchain essence. In which case you are looking at two psuedo nukes both with pro's and con's that decently equal out (when it comes to damage, radius, bonus effects, recharge time, etc) Unfortunately, that leaves warshades with the ability to maintain 3 pets who put out amazing ST and AOE damage over time with PB's pretty much screwed over.



Group Energy Flight vs.... ? I don't know what. I feel like whatever you'd compare this to on the WS side, PB's would lose again.

Stygian Circle vs. Reform Essence. The standard heals for both sets, only Stygian circle is *some off the top of my head probably slightly exaggerated number* times better in 95% of game play. Not only does the heal scale to mob class (dead boss heals more than dead minion) but on a standard encounter of 2 to 3 foes it will consistently heal more than reform essence while effectively refilling your end bar with half the recharge time. My simple solution would be give reform essence the energize treatment without touching its recharge.

Light Form vs. Eclipse. It was a major step forward in bringing the two powersets in line when it came to survivability, while the gap has been narrowed its still there. The worst case you are looking at for eclipse is only a 18% increase res to all. That does pale compared to the hit any time 84% Res Light form gives you, however this is a game where you fight piles of bad guys, so finding 3 or 4 to hit with eclipse is never much of a stretch. Lightform gets me in two distinct areas, lack of any psi protection where WS's easily cap theirs and a crash that is based around total HP rather than Base HP (What a PB's heals are based off of)

PB vs. WS overall.

Synergy : Warshades can stack stuns to control entire groups, bosses included. PB's cannot.

End management : Warshades have an infinite blue bar for the most part, PB's definitely do not.

Healing : Warshades end up miles ahead with stygian circle for a vast majority of the games content, however they can fall back on Essence drain to "fill in" on the few occasions Stygian Circle is not optimal.

Damage : While PB's have a few advantages like Radiant Strike vs. Essence drain damage and Solar Flare (even though its KB is horrible) all that is pretty much moot when a WS is running 1 to 2 pets. It just gets sad when there are 3 of them.


As a final note, I am grateful for the changes that were done. I think PB's have closed the survivability gap somewhat from what it used to be, but the gap is still there in both damage, survivability and utility and I for one would rather see it narrowed some.

Respec your PB with a good build play it then come back with the results.

I think comparing power to power is futile. They just don't match well enough in function outside of the forms. I have a different take on their overall comparison, too.

I think most know how much of a WS enthusiast I am. However, in the current state of things, I would take lightform over eclipse any day. The lack of psi resistance to me is not nearly as big of a deal as facing hard single targets, or somehow missing with eclipse, or not having any sort of mez protection outside of clarion. In fact, if pb's had the equivalent of warshade pets, I would like them both about the same.

As another point, stygian circle is awesome. However, there are times when I much prefer the two heals of a peacebringer and the end management of lightform/conserve power.

The main power gap that really remains in favor of WS's is from a) the pets, b) the Dwarves, and c) mezzing. For everything else the old argument of 'consistency vs higher-highs and lower-lows' is much more valid than it was before.

If PBs are supposed to be the 'Big thing' killer, they sort of fall flat on their face when it comes to that. An easy way to fix that would be to give them a regen debuff tied to Photon Seekers. Give Photon Seekers an identity and make them equal to Fluffy. It also gives them the ability to kill big targets. -600% regen if all 3 seekers hit would be pretty good and easy, or -450% regen.

Is this subjective? Without the use of excel?

i think, that with equal amount of money invested.. Warshades still come out ahead. They have so much utility it's crazy. Deck's MF Warshade proved it.

Oh boy. Lotta things to cover here. Gonna try to quote and respond in order. Here goes

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwellGuy This is how I feel but I am going to give Timeshadow's Peacebringers Suck! guide a run to see if it helps me.

Glad you're gonna try it out. Lemme know if it goes well.

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Originally Posted by Archmage MC If PBs are supposed to be the 'Big thing' killer, they sort of fall flat on their face when it comes to that. An easy way to fix that would be to give them a regen debuff tied to Photon Seekers. Give Photon Seekers an identity and make them equal to Fluffy. It also gives them the ability to kill big targets. -600% regen if all 3 seekers hit would be pretty good and easy, or -450% regen.

It seems like your interpretation of "Big Thing" is AV/GM. I say that because you suggested a -Regen debuff as a fix. Frankly, I don't think that's necessary. While it's perfectly possible to solo AVs and GMs with some ATs and builds, the Devs have stated that this kinda thing isn't supposed to be par for the course. However, if that's your standard of measure you can feel free to grab the Degenerative (-Max HP) or Diamagnetic (-Regen) Interface Incarnate abilities.

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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload i think, that with equal amount of money invested.. Warshades still come out ahead. They have so much utility it's crazy. Deck's MF Warshade proved it.

I'll admit, Warshades do have a lotta utility. But that's because they're designed as a Blaster/Controller hybrid whereas PBs are more of a Blaster/Scrapper hybrid. Their powers tend to focus on direct damage above all else whereas Warshades have synergistic controls (Read: Stuns) thrown in.

I won't argue that there's a distinct lack of control synergy with PBs. That's been known and lobbied against for a long time around here. However, saying that Warshades somehow overshadow (Is that a pun? ) Peacebringers when all things are taken into consideration is a bit of a leap. The two ATs function differently. So much so that it makes direct comparison difficult to the point of futility. Especially in light of the most recent changes, saying that PBs are somehow glaringly deficient requires a hefty burden of proof that would be a challenge for most anyone to manage.

Don't forget. Light Form doesn't get any PSI resistance while Eclipse does. Since Mez protection is easy to get with Clarion, Light Form still falls short of Eclipse.

And name me an AT that can't take down an AV without lore/incarnates minus the alpha. I suppose tankers can't due to damage, but thats the only one I can think of. Blasters have /MM which lets them solo AVs very easily. Everyone else has high damage or -regen debuffs.

Thanks to Sunless Mire. But that being a variable buff makes it hard to factor into the discussion.