City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Which powerset will benefit more from the AS change?

Android_5Point9

By Android_5Point9,
Posted on: 2012-01-23 17:09 in Stalkers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricohdah View Post
Maybe just MA. Having all smashing type damage kind of bites. It's one of the most resisted types of damage next to lethal. At least DB/NB/BS can slot procs for dam resist debuff to help regain their damage potential.

EM is mostly energy and can do well more consistently than MA can. A big problem of EM is the cast times are so long for TF/ET that it is harder to get two 3AF'd AS attacks within one BU cast.
If you are on a large team, EM's effectiveness will scale down pretty bad because ET can't critical and TF's critical value is not full.

MA on a full team scales the best but it's still not enough dps for a set that excels in ST.

Dark Melee is only a little bit behind MA/EM but it has great utilities and good damage type and a small cone.

Basically, I feel Kinetic easily replaces Energy Melee and Street Justice easily replaces MA. I am loving SJ right now. It has a high damage pbaoe and combo 3 critical Crushing Uppercut is just NASTY. I normally don't like using Placate but Placate + CU is awesome.

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelxman81 View Post
.
Still havent tried a KM/Nin or KM/EA stalker, now may be the right time!
What do you guys think?
You should try KM/Nin. I'm running this on Live and before the buff it's already a ton of fun with BU > CS > BU > w/e you want. Can't imagine what it will be with the buff to AS but bad isn't a word I'm envisioning to describe it

@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Some thoughts...
I didn't really take into consideration IO's, procs buffs etc. If I do take everything into consideration, I would run the Sm-MG-Sm-SL-AS-repeat attack chain. Slot the ATO set (5/6) and the Hecatomb proc into Sm to give MG and SL greater chances to critical. Slot Hecatomb (5/6) and a proc into AS. Beef up MG and SL with enhancement boosters to get purple-like stats and slot them Cloud Sense/Touch of the Nictus procs.

The StJ chain I wrote down was only used because it is the chain I am currently using. Not sure what the best chain is but I really do not see HB-SB-HB-SC-HB-AS-CU as being better. StJ is sort of an oddball. One thing I did not mention is the SB-HB-AS-HB-SB-CU is just the base attack chain and changes during use. When BU is recharged, the chain becomes BU-AS-HB-SB-CU-SB-AS which allows for 2 BU'd-3 AF'd AS and 1 BU'd Combat Level 3 CU. When Placate it up, it changes to SB-HB-AS-SB-Plac-CU for the guaranteed critical on CU. The ATO set (5/6) with an Achilles Heel proc is slotted into SB which gives the 2nd HB and CU greater chances to critical and more chances to debuff dam resist.

152.9? Nice! I never actually looked at the damage while playing, the visual of "critical" floating above the enemies head was always enough for me. Mids' labeled hidden AS as doing tremendous damage at 152.9 so I just did a guesstimate of a superior damage unhidden AS. It doesn't change the positioning of the list I posted but will bump all the DPS numbers by a couple of points.

And you're right, Spines doesn't deserve my pity! Forget you, Spines. Forget you!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
I am loving SJ right now. It has a high damage pbaoe and combo 3 critical Crushing Uppercut is just NASTY. I normally don't like using Placate but Placate + CU is awesome.
After i22 is released, I will post a vid of my StJ/SR vs a pylon. 4:02 (286 DPS).

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
Basically, I feel Kinetic easily replaces Energy Melee
This is how I'm starting to lean as well; outside of just damage, it's got enough Stuns and KD to make it almost as good of a mitigatory set as EM. Then there's the whole FF proc slotting thing...

EM may still be balanced around the 'crit-on-mez' target philosophy...

Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricohdah View Post
After i22 is released, I will post a vid of my StJ/SR vs a pylon. 4:02 (286 DPS).
I like the idea (posited here I believe) of StJ/Ice. Whipped up a quick build, but couldn't quite reach the softcap on E/N. Wanted to see if it could run Ricodah's StJ chain too - but I think it falls a bit short. Open to suggestions.

Also, wasn't there a question about Chilling Embrace interfering with Placate?

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
EM may still be balanced around the 'crit-on-mez' target philosophy...
Except that you never got a crit-on-stun, it was only for sleeps and holds.

It was just balanced around a "we can't let Stalkers do more than gank PvP noobs!" philosophy - otherwise they wouldn't have nerfed the stun values as much as they did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
Also, wasn't there a question about Chilling Embrace interfering with Placate?
Not as often as I thought it would be. Chilling Embrace is so awesome! With the new AS, you even have less trouble to use critical AS.

SJ is a good candidate because a combo 3 Uppercut hits harder than the real AS.

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricohdah View Post
After i22 is released, I will post a vid of my StJ/SR vs a pylon. 4:02 (286 DPS).
Wow, that's pretty good!

Anyone know SJ/SR Scrapper's number? I wonder which one is better.

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
I like the idea (posited here I believe) of StJ/Ice. Whipped up a quick build, but couldn't quite reach the softcap on E/N. Wanted to see if it could run Ricodah's StJ chain too - but I think it falls a bit short. Open to suggestions.

Also, wasn't there a question about Chilling Embrace interfering with Placate?
You can get the chain if you go with the Spiritual Alpha otherwise you will probably need purple sets to achieve it. I altered the build a bit to get E/N def to 45%, added a Steadfast +3def and fully slotted HB and AS. End IO's in Icy Bastion seemed like overkill so I put those slots to use elsewhere. You can also unslot Chilling Embrace as S/L is above the softcap without the 1.25% bonus and move those elsewhere. I would only really want CE for the damage debuff property. The slow and -rech is just bonus.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
I like the idea (posited here I believe) of StJ/Ice. Whipped up a quick build, but couldn't quite reach the softcap on E/N. Wanted to see if it could run Ricodah's StJ chain too - but I think it falls a bit short. Open to suggestions.
Below is my Live build (with the added bonus of having an empty slot for the ATO in AS). It's perma-hasten with Ageless Radial Paragon 10% rech bonus (an armag set is in the alt slots of sweeping cross) and softcapped to S/L/E/N (plus has the nice DDR bonus). Hopefully that is enough for you to run Ricodah's chain.

You can probably work a different build PPP wise or add maneuvers in and reach perma hasten more easily (cause 5 +1 rech IOs are honestly a bit of a waste ) but perma hasten was a by product of picking Agility and Ageless so I didn't optimize that aspect.

<3 Agility Core Paragon anyway.

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@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker

 

Posted

Nice work Ricodah - realized I forgot the +3 def IOs lol ...

Here is a purpled build that gets down to 7.11 recharge in CB. You would +5 the recharge IO in Build Up, and probably the 2 in hasten. It only uses 3 purple sets, so it's not that bad. But it does also use the PVP IO.

I'm showing 45.6% S/L and 43.7% E/N before you factor in supressed Hide (which mids shows, I think, as 2.65%) -- which would put you comfortably over softcap. Then you can slot Energy Absorption for Endo instead (I think it's autohit? If not, sub the Acc/End IO for the End/Recharge).

Endo use looks like a problem, but I guess you'd be relying on Icy Bastion up every 85 secs or so (30 sec duration) along with Energy Absorption every 22 secs to handle it.

This way you could run Musculature Alpha. Maybe Musc doesn't make that much of a difference on a Stalker, but I was thinking it would really juice your dmg. If not, then stick with the other build using Spiritual.

If you could handle being at 44.55% E/N before Energy Absorption, you could move a slot out of Fire Blast into Glacial Armor (Def IO) and the other slot out of Fire Blast into Spinning Strike to slot the +Rchrg IO ... which really might be good for bringing Icy Bastion, Build Up, etc. back more often. Not sure if it's worth the loss of def.

EDIT: Viper, that's a neat idea to use Ageless for the +recharge / endo / debuff resist. I always tend to go Rebirth on Def-based toons but no reason you could't do both and swap as needed. Anyone really know if Musculature is worth it on a Stalk?

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
This way you could run Musculature Alpha. Maybe Musc doesn't make that much of a difference on a Stalker, but I was thinking it would really juice your dmg. If not, then stick with the other build using Spiritual.
I've had some debates about this in the beta form. I can't imagine any of my stalker not taking Musculature (one of the new Alphas has +damage at Radial I think).

Take SJ for example, with T4 Core, my Shin Breaker (8s) attack jumps from 206 to 239 and Uppercut jumps from 398 to freaking 461! If you critical, that's going to be 66 extra damage and 126 extra damage! Stalker is all about criticals.

With the new Assassin Strike, endurance is a problem but I need to respec to see how I can reduce that. (I still think endurance cost should be lowered a tiny bit)


I know some of you like Spiritual more for +recharge (since we don't have +recharge inspirations) but if I am putting so many sets in many attacks, I might as well use them, rather than only using 2-3 attacks repeatedly.


I truly think Musculature makes a huge difference on Stalker (and Scrapper and Blaster, basically those with the highest damage modifier).

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricohdah View Post
After i22 is released, I will post a vid of my StJ/SR vs a pylon. 4:02 (286 DPS).
is that with or without incarnate powers?

BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
EDIT: Viper, that's a neat idea to use Ageless for the +recharge / endo / debuff resist. I always tend to go Rebirth on Def-based toons but no reason you could't do both and swap as needed. Anyone really know if Musculature is worth it on a Stalk?
I think Musc definitely has some uses but I don't think it's the alpha that frees the most slots on a given stalker since you're already trying to maximize your damage anyway.

As it has been pointed out in the thread about stalker changes, stalkers will suffer from end use more with AS being useable more often (and that's normal given the damage of AS imo), so having it under control is really cool, which is why I personally like agility and ageless.

Ageless Radial has the DDR bonus which I'm sure will be even better when most of the fighting will be done off hide, especially on /Ice who will want to leverage CE (and that will have a by-product of pissing mobs around you nicely)

On /Ice specifically I don't feel the need to use Rebirth, especially with DDR and an increase cap which hoarfrost will leverage nicely (plus Icy Bastion) but I can understand why you like having it on def based toons (I have some of my def toons who have it as well).

@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
is that with or without incarnate powers?
With. T4 Musculature Radial and T4 Reactive Radial. No temps, outside buffs, inspiration, Judgement, Lore or Destiny. I skimmed the Rikti Pylon Thread pages and found only one StJ scrapper having better DPS but was paired with Shield Defense and had saturated AAO. I don't think any of the others came close.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
Endo use looks like a problem, but I guess you'd be relying on Icy Bastion up every 85 secs or so (30 sec duration) along with Energy Absorption every 22 secs to handle it.

This way you could run Musculature Alpha. Maybe Musc doesn't make that much of a difference on a Stalker, but I was thinking it would really juice your dmg. If not, then stick with the other build using Spiritual.[/code]
I never tried Ice Armor before and have been playing around with it on Mids'. It's a strong secondary. I'm going to pair it with Staff when it comes out instead of Energy Aura.

Don't worry too much about your endurance. I have an end usage of 1.46 and end recovery of 4.03 without end mitigation powers. No problems at all unless I am fighting a pylon in which case I toggle off Focus Fighting and I can go for at least 6 mins straight. Oddly enough my StJ/WP scrapper had horrible end with Quick Recovery thrown in the mix.

I feel Musculature does makes a big difference. It's like you swallowed a permanent +25% damage Enrage inspiration (Radial) or a +33% damage Focused Rage inspiration (Core).

 

Posted

These are some interesting numbers. Is there a way to factor in enemy resistances? Most enemies are resistant to smashing/lethal, no? So wouldn't that mean that sets with dual damage types like EM, DM, ELM, and Spines (toxic) would be slightly higher in all actuality?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticwidow View Post
These are some interesting numbers. Is there a way to factor in enemy resistances? Most enemies are resistant to smashing/lethal, no? So wouldn't that mean that sets with dual damage types like EM, DM, ELM, and Spines (toxic) would be slightly higher in all actuality?
Against a pylon, no, that's why people test out their DPS on it.

Against certain enemies, yes, and S/L are about equal on being resisted more/more often than other damage types.

Against AVs, yes, they'll usually have good S/L Resist then okay resists to everything else, with a possible exception to an exotic damage type inwhich they may have equal or greater resists.

So it comes down to tagrets. Same goes with enemy groups, but one worries less about resistances there (or should anyways) as with high damage classes, at least in my experience, that resist usually means just 1-2 extra hits.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticwidow View Post
These are some interesting numbers. Is there a way to factor in enemy resistances? Most enemies are resistant to smashing/lethal, no? So wouldn't that mean that sets with dual damage types like EM, DM, ELM, and Spines (toxic) would be slightly higher in all actuality?
That's partially true. That's why Martial Art's advantage isn't that great because it's all smashing damage. Dark Melee's dps is a tiny bit behind but it does dual damage.

By the way, I feel smashing damage is alright. Lethal damage is the worst. Lethal has some very extreme cases when you fight Malta and Robots. Malta, as an enemy group, have about 37% resistance to Lethal. That's as high as it gets. Psionic has similar problem. When psionic gets resisted, it's resisted A LOT! And then you have Carnies group and some Devourer enemies that have minus resistance to lethal damage!

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

When you guys test against pylon, do you feel -resistance proc makes a huge difference or no?

I am planning my SJ/Ice and the only attack that can take -resist is Shin Breaker. (I don't plan to buy any PvP proc sorry). Is having just one -resist proc really worth it in your opinion? Shin Breaker happens to be the best dpa attack as well so I am not sure if I want to fully slot this attack with great damage/recharge/end or sacrifice some damage/recharge for one AH Proc (I plan to take 4 Kinetic Combat).

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
When you guys test against pylon, do you feel -resistance proc makes a huge difference or no?

I am planning my SJ/Ice and the only attack that can take -resist is Shin Breaker. (I don't plan to buy any PvP proc sorry). Is having just one -resist proc really worth it in your opinion? Shin Breaker happens to be the best dpa attack as well so I am not sure if I want to fully slot this attack with great damage/recharge/end or sacrifice some damage/recharge for one AH Proc (I plan to take 4 Kinetic Combat).
With the way -res works, whatever the -res number is ends up being a straight damage buff regardless of the target's initial resistance. Resistance resists -res debuffs though, but even if Pylons had 0% resistance (which they don't), the resistance numbers would just go negative.

So if you're using the attack frequently enough to maintain the -res debuff, do eet. It's always helpful.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
When you guys test against pylon, do you feel -resistance proc makes a huge difference or no?

I am planning my SJ/Ice and the only attack that can take -resist is Shin Breaker. (I don't plan to buy any PvP proc sorry). Is having just one -resist proc really worth it in your opinion? Shin Breaker happens to be the best dpa attack as well so I am not sure if I want to fully slot this attack with great damage/recharge/end or sacrifice some damage/recharge for one AH Proc (I plan to take 4 Kinetic Combat).
The AH proc makes a difference. How substantial depends on the frequency it is used. If you slot it in Shin Breaker and use SB only once in your attack chain, on average you will apply the debuff one time in 5 cycles of your chain. Use SB twice in your chain and it will proc an average of 1 time every 2.5 cycles of your chain.

Using it twice in a chain is a good amount. AH's debuff lasts for 10.25s (Which does not stack with itself) Your target will have a 20% dam res debuff an average of 40% of the time until you defeat it.

 

Posted

I didn't do them or check their numbers (I'm way too lazy for that), but I thought someone had some spreadsheets that showed an across-the-board look at resistances and they had Lethal as the most-resisted, then Psionic (because of how much it is resisted when it happens to be), then Toxic (same reason as Psi), then Smashing (it has a wider variety of mobs vulnerable to it).

The range that the powers fall into isn't extremely wide, though, which is why keeping a permanent AH proc going can make the lethal sets catch up and with a PvP -res proc they can pass them. Taking your final damage including criticals and multiplying by 1.4 is a nice little boost.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
I didn't do them or check their numbers (I'm way too lazy for that), but I thought someone had some spreadsheets that showed an across-the-board look at resistances and they had Lethal as the most-resisted, then Psionic (because of how much it is resisted when it happens to be), then Toxic (same reason as Psi), then Smashing (it has a wider variety of mobs vulnerable to it).
Yes, I remember reading that spreadsheets and it turns out Smashing isn't as bad as what most people think. Lethal is bad for sure. You have several very common mobs that are consistently resisted to Lethal the most. IE: Longbows, some Arachnos, Malta, some Councils and high level Crey.

And Psionic isn't as "un-resistable" as the game detail says because when Psi is resisted, it is resisted so much.

I remember Fire is the least resisted damage type in the game.

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.