Which powerset will benefit more from the AS change?
By
Android_5Point9,
Posted on: 2012-01-23 17:09 in Stalkers
Electricity currently has the strongest ST damage of stalker sets. It will receive a relative nerf to the other sets in strength when they all get buffed. I think that DB may get the most benefit from the change.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Quote:
Why do you think ELM will recieve any kind of nerf?|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Electricity currently has the strongest ST damage of stalker sets. It will receive a relative nerf to the other sets in strength when they all get buffed. I think that DB may get the most benefit from the change.
|
As to the OP...
ELM and Spines of course just recieved a nice increase to ST to go along with their nice AOE.
StJ made out like a bandit with Assassin Strike giving 2 Combo Points even when used as a regular attack.
DB's combo's just became more effective, with being able to use AS in combo's, but it's best ST DPS isnt tied to a combo.
Kin Melee really made out if you factor IO sets into it.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Why DB? It already has good ST damage, the set's problem is that the combo system is wonky, you need more powers than a scrappers and have to use low dpa attacks to do them - and you can't do AV-Sweep combos back to back (good when facing tons of mobs) like a scrapper or even get advantage of having a permanent to-hit bonus (Blinding Feint) which helps a lot since missing = bye bye combo. On my scrapper the only 'meh' attack I have to use for my combos is Power Slice. And the best DPS chain for DB without combos requires a ton of recharge.
Anyway.... The ST sets will suffer a bit since there's no reason anymore to slot energy punch on my em/nin and nobody's sure Claws, MA and EM will get revamped.
The change makes me wanna play Spines, a set that I could never get into due to the low ST damage.
Now sure what Micro meant with Electric... It has the best AoE damage on Stalkers, not the best ST, unless you count PvP where Thundestrike hits like a truck.
Quote:
Stalker ELM would get 106.44 DPS with just damage enhancement, and enough recharge to pull off it's best ST DPS. That means no +DMG bonuses, not using Build Up, and no Procs.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Why DB? It already has good ST damage, the set's problem is that the combo system is wonky, you need more powers than a scrappers and have to use low dpa attacks to do them - and you can't do AV-Sweep combos back to back (good when facing tons of mobs) like a scrapper or even get advantage of having a permanent to-hit bonus (Blinding Feint) which helps a lot since missing = bye bye combo. On my scrapper the only 'meh' attack I have to use for my combos is Power Slice. And the best DPS chain for DB without combos requires a ton of recharge.
Anyway.... The ST sets will suffer a bit since there's no reason anymore to slot energy punch on my em/nin and nobody's sure Claws, MA and EM will get revamped. The change makes me wanna play Spines, a set that I could never get into due to the low ST damage. Now sure what Micro meant with Electric... It has the best AoE damage on Stalkers, not the best ST, unless you count PvP where Thundestrike hits like a truck. |
JL can take a -Resist Proc, figure at least two purple Procs, and now it gets to put Assassin Strike into the chain.
My guess is JL - CB - Assassin Strike - CI - Repeat will become ELM's best ST DPS chain.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I know Elec will get a big benefit from that, what confused was the sentence 'Electricity currently has the strongest ST damage of stalker sets.'. I'm no numbers guy since I don't go soloing AVs and the like but ELM never seemed to have the 'best ST damage of all', either live or with the beta changes.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Stalker ELM would get 106.44 DPS with just damage enhancement, and enough recharge to pull off it's best ST DPS. That means no +DMG bonuses, not using Build Up, and no Procs.
JL can take a -Resist Proc, figure at least two purple Procs, and now it gets to put Assassin Strike into the chain. My guess is JL - CB - Assassin Strike - CI - Repeat will become ELM's best ST DPS chain. |
Hmm would spines get to put out similar numbers with the new AS? Although I don't care much about numbers as I said, I could never play Spines past 30 because of the horrid ST damage. Elec at least always had the L.Rod + AS/T-Strike from Hide so that was enough for me to like the set.
Quote:
Oh yeah, that confused me too. I just went in thinking the OP meant ELM makes out like a bandit with the change |
Originally Posted by Kioshi
I know Elec will get a big benefit from that, what confused was the sentence 'Electricity currently has the strongest ST damage of stalker sets.'. I'm no numbers guy since I don't go soloing AVs and the like but ELM never seemed to have the 'best ST damage of all', either live or with the beta changes.
Hmm would spines get to put out similar numbers with the new AS? Although I don't care much about numbers as I said, I could never play Spines past 30 because of the horrid ST damage. Elec at least always had the L.Rod + AS/T-Strike from Hide so that was enough for me to like the set. |
Spine's ST DPS is around (give or take...Id have to redo the math) ELM's before the change, with Ripper -> Impale -> Throw Spines -> repeat I figure they're both going to get about equal DPS increase with it.
Spines also gets to slot a -Resist Proc as well.
for people who want ST DPS and lots of AOE, Spines and ELM Stalkers will be nice for them.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Okay quick math...
Spines with 104.39 DPS (Ripper - Impale - Throw Spines) on best DPS chain (not using out of primary attacks anyways) goes to 126.8 with Assassin Strike thrown in.
Mind you, this is if I have AS's damage right, which I /think/ I do, not 100% tho.
And that's with out procs and all the other bonuses. And against normal bosses and not directly looking at ST DPS, I'm sure the new AS will at least make more of a difference on fighting bosses.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Not a nerf, a relative nerf because it will no longer have the best single target damage of stalker primaries, which is fine.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Why do you think ELM will recieve any kind of nerf?
As to the OP... ELM and Spines of course just recieved a nice increase to ST to go along with their nice AOE. StJ made out like a bandit with Assassin Strike giving 2 Combo Points even when used as a regular attack. DB's combo's just became more effective, with being able to use AS in combo's, but it's best ST DPS isnt tied to a combo. Kin Melee really made out if you factor IO sets into it. |
I am referring to the free AS method that electric can currently use which pushes it over the top in st damage. (Lrod>waterspout/caltrops>BU>AS). I woiuld say brandx is right about the new chain.
Spines is still going to have lowish damage, but it will be better than now.
Db becomes able to use a version of the top chain. Having to use powerslice, nimble or vengeful before hurt its dps.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Quote:
Oh, that chain for ELM, the thing with that chain, was it only worked with one combo, ELM/NIN. So while I see what you mean, I'd say at most that's just a hit to combo.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Not a nerf, a relative nerf because it will no longer have the best single target damage of stalker primaries, which is fine.
I am referring to the free AS method that electric can currently use which pushes it over the top in st damage. (Lrod>waterspout/caltrops>BU>AS). I woiuld say brandx is right about the new chain. Spines is still going to have lowish damage, but it will be better than now. Db becomes able to use a version of the top chain. Having to use powerslice, nimble or vengeful before hurt its dps. |
And worth it imo.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I don't really get the logic here: everyone received the same buff, so however nrg and MA stood before should be almost the same (StJ and KM wonk things up a bit..)|
Originally Posted by Angelxman81
Energy melee and Martial arts should be revamped and get the AoE power for each set, now both sets underperform.
|
Nrg and MA on stalkers have always been ST based, so why does this need to be changed now that they have even harder hitting ST?
To me, this sounds just like the Blaster forums complaining about Judgement...
"Before I had 1 nuke and everyone else had 0 (they tend to ignore Khelds, Corrs, and Defs...). Now everyone has 1 nuke and I have 2. We need a buff!"
Quote:
I think the poster and others believe no one will pick MA or EM due to lack of AOE. Prefereing a set that will have high ST with AOE, instead of the highest AOE possible.|
Originally Posted by Zeh_Masteh
I don't really get the logic here: everyone received the same buff, so however nrg and MA stood before should be almost the same (StJ and KM wonk things up a bit..)
Nrg and MA on stalkers have always been ST based, so why does this need to be changed now that they have even harder hitting ST? To me, this sounds just like the Blaster forums complaining about Judgement... "Before I had 1 nuke and everyone else had 0 (they tend to ignore Khelds, Corrs, and Defs...). Now everyone has 1 nuke and I have 2. We need a buff!" |
Now, MA and EM are the #1 set, and #2 sets (though should be noted, EM barely edges out DM as #2, and if memory serves required more +RCH to reach it) when it comes to ST.
At least where.
I have no idea where StJ for Stalkers sits since it arrived, and no idea yet where the sets sit with the changes (which will of course be changed up a bit more when all the AS's have their animation times normalized).
My guess is Ninja Blade is going to move a head of MA. NB was just a little more than 10 DPS under MA with just 95%ish damage enhancement in both sets. NB can slot 2 Purple Procs and 2 -Resist Procs, while MA can only slot 1 Purple Proc (they really should make it so CAK can slot Defense Debuffs Sets).
But there's other factors too...like MA putting Assassin Strike into the chain, slotting with the Chance for Hide Proc, then releasing a critical EC (may or may not be the best move no idea, but it's something to think about) after AS
Lots of factors still!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Mids isn't accounting for Procs but some quick/rough math has me seeing the following...
MA 180-190
NB 190-200
EM 175-190
DM 170-180
KM 180-200
This is with trying to factor in the use of Build Up when it's up, and picking what I would suspect would be the optimal slotting for MOST NOT ALL, slotting.
So obviously, there will be variance, buuuut...this is what it's looking like to me so far.
Something to note as well, is with AS in the chain, some of the top chains become easier to obtain.
Dark Melee for instance, I'd go with SM - SL - AS - MG - Repeat (this also goes with the idea of the Stalker IO Set being put to best use in AS) over SM - SL - SM - MG. With AS having a longer animation than SM, that means MG needs just a little less +RCH to obtain this chain.
MA one might want to try replacing CS/CK with AS, but no, SK won't recharge fast enough. Best to replace SK with AS. And I'm not 100% convinced that's the best chain for it now with the new Stalker IO Set as a consideration. EC after an AS for a better chance to crit just sounds nice.
I think MA can pull ahead of NB in ST DPS, if it was able to slot the -Resist Proc or at least tie it. But even if it beats NB in ST DPS, it doesn't seem to be by as much. So, people will likely go NB for the added AOE, even if that added AOE is just GD.
Over all, I think the DPS favors the Stalkers (at least it seems easier to obtain with versus the other Melee ATs) when used in such sets as WP, SR...basically no set with a damage aura or some sort of additional damage obtainable in their secondary (AAO or FE).
No idea on Claws or DB versus Scrappers/Brutes. And Kin Melee I don't know for sure either. Basically the sets that don't have the +DMG attacks in them for Stalkers.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Don't discount BU refresh on KM. solo its a 10% chance (more if you care to levelrage the stalker proc), on teams its a 33% chance.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Mids isn't accounting for Procs but some quick/rough math has me seeing the following...
MA 180-190 NB 190-200 EM 175-190 DM 170-180 KM 180-200 This is with trying to factor in the use of Build Up when it's up, and picking what I would suspect would be the optimal slotting for MOST NOT ALL, slotting. So obviously, there will be variance, buuuut...this is what it's looking like to me so far. Something to note as well, is with AS in the chain, some of the top chains become easier to obtain. Dark Melee for instance, I'd go with SM - SL - AS - MG - Repeat (this also goes with the idea of the Stalker IO Set being put to best use in AS) over SM - SL - SM - MG. With AS having a longer animation than SM, that means MG needs just a little less +RCH to obtain this chain. MA one might want to try replacing CS/CK with AS, but no, SK won't recharge fast enough. Best to replace SK with AS. And I'm not 100% convinced that's the best chain for it now with the new Stalker IO Set as a consideration. EC after an AS for a better chance to crit just sounds nice. I think MA can pull ahead of NB in ST DPS, if it was able to slot the -Resist Proc or at least tie it. But even if it beats NB in ST DPS, it doesn't seem to be by as much. So, people will likely go NB for the added AOE, even if that added AOE is just GD. Over all, I think the DPS favors the Stalkers (at least it seems easier to obtain with versus the other Melee ATs) when used in such sets as WP, SR...basically no set with a damage aura or some sort of additional damage obtainable in their secondary (AAO or FE). No idea on Claws or DB versus Scrappers/Brutes. And Kin Melee I don't know for sure either. Basically the sets that don't have the +DMG attacks in them for Stalkers. |
I think things will be interesting if Synapse comes through and normalizes Placate down to 1 second activation.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Ninja Blade's number is that high? One thing I've noticed when I tested my old ninj/sr Stalker in beta is that the fast recharge attacks like gambler cuts don't give Focus all the time. I think I may have missed two Focus once. Because of this, I added flashing steel in normal attack chain (since it has higher recharge than sting).
What about Broadsword's number with the new AS?
And Martial Arts is that low? Not good...
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Discount it? I'm not discounting it. What I mean by that comment was I don't know how much Power Siphon helps out Scrapper KM, versus CS refreshing BU for Stalkers.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Don't discount BU refresh on KM. solo its a 10% chance (more if you care to levelrage the stalker proc), on teams its a 33% chance.
I think things will be interesting if Synapse comes through and normalizes Placate down to 1 second activation. |
Using the Stalker Proc, BU became a regular part of my attack chain. ^_^
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
It was quick math. So I could be wrong, but it is looking to be lower than NB, which gets the benefit of a whole lot of procs.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Ninja Blade's number is that high? One thing I've noticed when I tested my old ninj/sr Stalker in beta is that the fast recharge attacks like gambler cuts don't give Focus all the time. I think I may have missed two Focus once. Because of this, I added flashing steel in normal attack chain (since it has higher recharge than sting).
What about Broadsword's number with the new AS? And Martial Arts is that low? Not good... |
MA is limited to one purple set in it's DPS and no -Resist Proc. NB while lower without the procs, gets to move ahead with 2 Purple Procs, and 2 -Resist Procs.
EDIT: As for BS, I never figured out it's best DPS string, so I can't comment on it really. However, it does get the advantage of all the procs on it's side, plus it just got an insanely fast attack to put into it's DPS chain.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I did some number crunching for some of the sets and of the ones I did, this was the order and the attack chains I used:
Martial Arts - SK-CAK-CS-AS 77.76dps
Martial Arts - SK-CAK-SK-CA-AS 77.57dps
Martial Arts - SK-EC-SK-CAK-AS 75.92dps
Dark Melee - Sm-MG-SL-AS 74.41dps
Dual Blades - AB-SS-AB-AS 74.40dps
Street Justice - SB-HB-AS-HB-SB-CU 73.81dps
Energy Melee - EP-TF-EP-ET-AS 73.78dps
Dark Melee - Sm-MG-Sm-SL-AS 73.44dps
Dual Blades - AB-SS-AB-NS-AS 72.26dps
Dual Blades - AB-SS-AB-PS-AS 70.62dps
Ninja Blade - GC-GD-SD-AS 68.23dps
Ninja Blade - GC-GD-GC-SD-AS 66.62dps
Broad Sword - Hck-HS-Dis-AS 64.45dps
Broad Sword - Hck-HS-Hck-Dis-AS 64.27dps
Spines - Rp-Imp-TS-AS - 61.01dps
I just used the base damage for all attacks. No IO's; no procs. I gave all AS a 130 DPA as I am not sure how much damage it does outside of Hide. If and when the devs standardize the unhidden AS cast time to 1.188s, NB will be pretty even with MA but of course -dam res procs will pull it ahead.
I think SK-EC-SK-CAK-AS will be MA's top DPS chain if the ATO proc is slotted in SK. It would give 4/5 attacks increased chances to critical compared to the others (3/5 and 2/4)
I feel sorry for Spines. If I remember correctly, the toxic DOT portion of each attack does not critical bringing it's overall DPS down even further from the rest. Damn CoH for encouraging me to do math.
Oh, you are talking about pbaoe pvp -resist proc. I don't think I'll ever be able to afford that.
So for NB to pull ahead, you need several procs like -resist and negative damage?
Just like what you said, since the new Assassin Strike will be part of the attack chain, you don't need as much +recharge which leaves more room for procs.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Oh, don't feel sorry for Spines! Throw Spines is arguably one of the best cone attacks and it also has -slow debuff. The new AS change will improve Spines so much more in ST department. You basically start the fight with BU + Throw Spine, Impale + Rippers and critical AS.|
Originally Posted by ricohdah
I feel sorry for Spines. If I remember correctly, the toxic DOT portion of each attack does not critical bringing it's overall DPS down even further from the rest. Damn CoH for encouraging me to do math.
|
You should feel sorry for MA and EM. Based on your numbers, MA and EM look pretty pathetic for a set that excels in ST damage with zero AoE. That's just sad.
I think if they insist on not giving any aoe back to MA/EM, then their ST number needs to be at least 30% higher than most sets.
If the average dps is around 71, then MA/EM should be at least in the 90s range.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Maybe just MA. Having all smashing type damage kind of bites. It's one of the most resisted types of damage next to lethal. At least DB/NB/BS can slot procs for dam resist debuff to help regain their damage potential. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
You should feel sorry for MA and EM. Based on your numbers, MA and EM look pretty pathetic for a set that excels in ST damage with zero AoE. That's just sad.
|
EM is mostly energy and can do well more consistently than MA can. A big problem of EM is the cast times are so long for TF/ET that it is harder to get two 3AF'd AS attacks within one BU cast.
Quote:
Damn. I only have 5 slots in my AS right now.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Discount it? I'm not discounting it. What I mean by that comment was I don't know how much Power Siphon helps out Scrapper KM, versus CS refreshing BU for Stalkers.
Using the Stalker Proc, BU became a regular part of my attack chain. ^_^ |
REspec needed!
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Quote:
Some thoughts...|
Originally Posted by ricohdah
I did some number crunching for some of the sets and of the ones I did, this was the order and the attack chains I used:
Martial Arts - SK-CAK-CS-AS 77.76dps Martial Arts - SK-CAK-SK-CA-AS 77.57dps Martial Arts - SK-EC-SK-CAK-AS 75.92dps Dark Melee - Sm-MG-SL-AS 74.41dps Dual Blades - AB-SS-AB-AS 74.40dps Street Justice - SB-HB-AS-HB-SB-CU 73.81dps Energy Melee - EP-TF-EP-ET-AS 73.78dps Dark Melee - Sm-MG-Sm-SL-AS 73.44dps Dual Blades - AB-SS-AB-NS-AS 72.26dps Dual Blades - AB-SS-AB-PS-AS 70.62dps Ninja Blade - GC-GD-SD-AS 68.23dps Ninja Blade - GC-GD-GC-SD-AS 66.62dps Broad Sword - Hck-HS-Dis-AS 64.45dps Broad Sword - Hck-HS-Hck-Dis-AS 64.27dps Spines - Rp-Imp-TS-AS - 61.01dps I just used the base damage for all attacks. No IO's; no procs. I gave all AS a 130 DPA as I am not sure how much damage it does outside of Hide. If and when the devs standardize the unhidden AS cast time to 1.188s, NB will be pretty even with MA but of course -dam res procs will pull it ahead. I think SK-EC-SK-CAK-AS will be MA's top DPS chain if the ATO proc is slotted in SK. It would give 4/5 attacks increased chances to critical compared to the others (3/5 and 2/4) I feel sorry for Spines. If I remember correctly, the toxic DOT portion of each attack does not critical bringing it's overall DPS down even further from the rest. Damn CoH for encouraging me to do math. |
On Dark Melee, if one factors in the Stalker IO Proc, they'd be better off using MG after AS, as MG is the better DPS.
On Street Justice, you're wasting the Combo Points. Sweeping Cross does better ST DPS with just 1 Combo Point than HB, and Spinning Strike does better ST DPS with 3 combo points (might have been 2, but I think it was more a very close tie).
I think you'll be better off going HB - SB - HB (needs 320% RCH) - SC - HB - AS - CU. Stalker Proc in AS gives better odds of CU critting, SB can't reach the lvl of recharge needed to go ...SB - AS - CU. S HB use there. -Resist Procs and Purple Procs in SB and SC, and a Purple Proc in CU if you can fit it in (and I think you can). Now, depending on the secondary, the purple set could go into HB instead, with SB getting (likely) 5 Crushing Impacts slotted into it. But this depends on if you're building for Positional Defenses or S/L Defense.
With EM with 95% slotting, the difference between using EP and BS in your DPS is 4.01 DPS in the favor of EP. However, the EP chain requires 325% Recharge in TF, while the BS chain requires 270% recharge in TF. I think it'd be more practical to go the route of using BS. Using BS will also give better chances of building Assassin Focus, as it's a longer animating attack than EP, likely putting the BS chain ahead of the EP one, in the long run.
Also, I was giving AS a 152.9 damage in my calculations as the damage displayed in Mids seemed to match up with what I was seeing in game. *shrug*
I wouldn't feel sorry for Spines though. It went from 104.39 DPS (with just 95% dmg slotting, no use of procs or BU) to 126.8 DPS with the use of AS in the chain of IM-RI-TS-AS.
However!
Impale - Ripper - Assassin Strike - Repeat is a ST DPS chain for 136.04 DPS!
Ripper - Throw Spines - Assassin Strike - Repeat is 143.56 DPS!
Of course, the Impale Chain gets to make use of the Purple Damage Proc (Throw Spines Purple set only gets a KD Proc) which likely evens out the DPS between those two chains, while requiring less +RCH for the chain to become seemless due to Impales longer animation.
Add in Build Up, -Resist Proc in Ripper, Purple Proc in Ripper (the Purple Proc in Impale being used to even out Impale and Throw Spines) and it probably reaches at least 170 DPS.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Note when I said 152.9 that was the unenhanced damage. Enhanced for 95% that's 304.4.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
My chain with KM is basically...|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Damn. I only have 5 slots in my AS right now.
REspec needed! |
Build Up - BB - SB - FB - AS - CS - Repeat.
FB is more likely to give Assassin Focus than QS, my guess is this will even out the DPS between using FB and QS.
Between CS's normal Crit chance, and the Stalker Proc, I was getting BU to recharge so frequently, it was just as I said, part of the attack chain. When it didn't recharge, I just hit BB and continued on with the chain with very little if no noticable pause.
Now to start a fight when solo, I'd suggest going BU - AS - CS - then BU or BB depending on if BU recharged.
When teamed however, I usually started off with BU - CS - BU when I was in the hidden state, and the team was moving at a faster rate.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Electricity will be awesome, since it has great AoE damage, was a bit lacking more strenght for ST damage...
Energy melee and Martial arts should be revamped and get the AoE power for each set, now both sets underperform.
Still havent tried a KM/Nin or KM/EA stalker, now may be the right time!
What do you guys think?