iirc, they toyed with this idea several years ago, but never really did anything with it. Or at least I recall something vague about origin storylines.
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
DCUO has three origins, each with its own origin plotline for hero or villain side. If you're a metahuman hero, for example, you get a starting mission with the Flash to defeat Gorilla Grodd, while if you're a tech hero you get a Scarecrow mission from Batwoman, and a meta villain gets a Power Girl mission from Lex Luthor (even though Lex is obviously a tech guy, but whatever), and so on and so forth.
I hate it.
There are a grand total of three missions unique to each plotline, one at level one, another at level fifteen, and the last at level thirty (the level cap). It's just enough to make me feel like I'm missing out on some interesting content, but nowhere near enough to make me actually consider leveling from 1-30 just to see it, even if the extra character slots were completely free.
If Paragon Studios does decide to implement origin-based missions, please make sure to make them very, very big and involved. If there's something origin-based every five levels or so, it would make the content between magic blueside and natural blueside big enough that I would actually consider paying money to get an extra character slot to check it out. If there's any less than that, though, you can pretty much forget it.
Problem is, that's a lot of new content to make.
IIRC, a long time ago (Pre City of Villains) there was a lowbie story arc that was somehow different for each Origin
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Not pre-COV. Pre-new Atlas. And it was only the beginning contact's arcs, putting you against different groups.
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Originally Posted by Erhnam
IIRC, a long time ago (Pre City of Villains) there was a lowbie story arc that was somehow different for each Origin
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Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
Given origins can mean anything, how do you safely define what is appropriate content?
For example, a 'Natural' hero could be an awesome ninja...or an alien warrior. Or a being who naturally has super powers without any need for enhancement. Or a Nature Elemental.
Tech? Straight up guy in a tech suit...or a sentient robot, an alchemist from another dimension who uses magi-tech. Science can come from a million and one sources, not all human. Magic is an even broader group, as is mutant.
The long and short of it is, the time spent doing story work is better spent on content EVERYONE can enjoy all the time, rather than 'Origin Only' arcs that will never mesh well with all concepts, and probably not even the majority. There is a reason Origins have been left well enough alone for a long ol' time now.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
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Somehow I don't think you actually thought about this and decided to just recycle a response. How would an origin related story chain, as described, interfere with anyone's origin story or background?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Given origins can mean anything, how do you safely define what is appropriate content?
For example, a 'Natural' hero could be an awesome ninja...or an alien warrior. Or a being who naturally has super powers without any need for enhancement. Or a Nature Elemental. Tech? Straight up guy in a tech suit...or a sentient robot, an alchemist from another dimension who uses magi-tech. Science can come from a million and one sources, not all human. Magic is an even broader group, as is mutant. The long and short of it is, the time spent doing story work is better spent on content EVERYONE can enjoy all the time, rather than 'Origin Only' arcs that will never mesh well with all concepts, and probably not even the majority. There is a reason Origins have been left well enough alone for a long ol' time now. |
For instance, with your own objections:
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| Tech? Straight up guy in a tech suit...or a sentient robot, an alchemist from another dimension who uses magi-tech |
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| Science can come from a million and one sources, not all human. |
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| Magic is an even broader group, |
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| as is mutant. |
Does it affect *anyone's* backstory that, for instance, the Malta Group is just working against (or trying to capture/subverty) any "metahuman?" No. Is anyone's backstory affected by having MAGI, GIFT, DATA, etc around? Nope - and they've been there since day 1. The OP's suggestion wouldn't affect anyone that way either.
The OP's suggesting story content. Not making (say) Mutant have a higher resist cap or something. And if you're really adamant that nobody would have any outside interest in your character, you could ignore the arcs.
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
So what you're (the op) asking for is missions similar to what warshades and peacebringers have now?
Devs would post more if they could say "hi!" without people whining because they wanted them to say "hello".
-Nethergoat
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He'd better not be. Warshades and Peacebringers have a much narrower origin than regular archetypes. Having magic types get a "Circle of Thorns wants to sacrifice you to Cthulhu because you're super-magical" mission wouldn't really rock anyone's story (except in extreme edge cases, and I can't even think of one off the top of my head).
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Originally Posted by Revanchist
So what you're (the op) asking for is missions similar to what warshades and peacebringers have now?
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In a way you can already get this. Every time you're introduced to a new contact, there's a short description telling you what kind of enhancements you might be able to get from them and what villain groups they are most interested in.
All you really need to do is follow the contact chain that most closely matches your origin/ character idea.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
We've already got lots of arcs dealing with technology, magic, mutants, etc. They just aren't locked to character origin.
Frankly, after the Origin of Power arcs, I don't want to see any more writing trying to explore origins.
Dont lock content under any label. Ever.
All content must be accesible for everyone (Alignment limitations makes sense).
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Ok, putting it simply, the OP's suggestion;|
Originally Posted by Stormbird
-snip-
Does it affect *anyone's* backstory that, for instance, the Malta Group is just working against (or trying to capture/subverty) any "metahuman?" No. Is anyone's backstory affected by having MAGI, GIFT, DATA, etc around? Nope - and they've been there since day 1. The OP's suggestion wouldn't affect anyone that way either. The OP's suggesting story content. Not making (say) Mutant have a higher resist cap or something. And if you're really adamant that nobody would have any outside interest in your character, you could ignore the arcs. |
1) As someone else said, this locks people out of content. That means there are LESS people able to play certain content. Given the Devs stance at present, where they seem to prefer content spread as evenly as possible (and only dividing by Hero/Villain, and even then it's only when they can't make it co-op) I don't see that happening.
2) The history of 'origin specific' story telling at present falls under HEATs and VEATs. Now, HEATs arcs suffer from being old, and having no new mechanics. That said, the story is a little convoluted and bland at times.
VEATs got Dr Brainstorms finale. I really hope I don;t have to spell that out any further. That and the current stuff like Twinshots arc (ok-ish) and Dr Graves ([Pancake] terrible) doesn't inspire confidence in me that this would be handled WELL.
That's it, really.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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... except, of course, that the game wants to encourage alts - more money coming in, after all - which would give people reason to roll more and buy more slots. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Ok, putting it simply, the OP's suggestion;
1) As someone else said, this locks people out of content. That means there are LESS people able to play certain content. |
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| 2) The history of 'origin specific' story telling at present falls under HEATs and VEATs. |
I really think some of you need to be exposed to sets of story arcs like this to see how good they can be. (Assuming the dev team does them decently, of course.)
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
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I that you're looking at if from slightly the wrong direction - it doesn't need detailed contact interaction that would only apply to some concepts - it'd be all about the missions - the maps, enemies, stories and the mechanics used to tell them.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Given origins can mean anything, how do you safely define what is appropriate content?
For example, a 'Natural' hero could be an awesome ninja...or an alien warrior. Or a being who naturally has super powers without any need for enhancement. Or a Nature Elemental. Tech? Straight up guy in a tech suit...or a sentient robot, an alchemist from another dimension who uses magi-tech. Science can come from a million and one sources, not all human. Magic is an even broader group, as is mutant. |
For example, if a mid level tech contact says to a tech origin avatar that they've been following their career with interest in the media, and that they're gald to meet someone else who also believes in the power of technology to fight crime and make the city and the lives of its citizens better, then that's very open to the player to interpret how it relates to their tech avatar - he doesn't mention what kind of tech it is - just that the avatar makes use of technology as the basis for their powers and abilities.
As another example, finding 3 tecnological items on a lab map to assemble a device is the exact same situation as finding 3 arcane artifacts on an Oranbega map to create a ritual - but for a player who's decided to choose magic as the origin of their avatar, the second option builds on that choice by giving them content that supports it.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I that you're looking at if from slightly the wrong direction - it doesn't need detailed contact interaction that would only apply to some concepts - it'd be all about the missions - the maps, enemies, stories and the mechanics used to tell them.
For example, if a mid level tech contact says to a tech origin avatar that they've been following their career with interest in the media, and that they're gald to meet someone else who also believes in the power of technology to fight crime and make the city and the lives of its citizens better, then that's very open to the player to interpret how it relates to their tech avatar - he doesn't mention what kind of tech it is - just that the avatar makes use of technology as the basis for their powers and abilities. As another example, finding 3 tecnological items on a lab map to assemble a device is the exact same situation as finding 3 arcane artifacts on an Oranbega map to create a ritual - but for a player who's decided to choose magic as the origin of their avatar, the second option builds on that choice by giving them content that supports it. |
This! Nothing needs to be specifically "locked" to an origin.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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No, not "this." It makes zero sense compared to what I'm describing. |
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
This! Nothing needs to be specifically "locked" to an origin.
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And who cares if it "locks people out of content?"
- People not wanting to do Incarnate trials locks them out of content.
- People who don't want to do task forces get locked out of content.
- People who don't PVP get locked out of (very little) content.
- People who don't play villains are locked out of content.
- People who don't play heroes are locked out of content.
- People who don't start in Praetoria are locked out of content.
Saying "Don't lock any content, ever?" Sorry, charlie, that ship has sailed a LONG time ago. That's about as silly of an objection as saying "People don't want to play anything but orcs, elves and warriors, so why make a superhero game?"
The whole point of it is to give some slightly less generic content based on something other than alignment *as well* as a reason to roll another character.
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| Given origins can mean anything, how do you safely define what is appropriate content? |
Let's take technology for instance.
Character 1 has been a tinkerer all their life. They come up with a power suit. When getting ready for a demo, they hear about an emergency. They're closest, so they suit up and take care of it - and then decide, instead of being an inventor and selling the suit, they'll become a hero.
Character 2 crash landed on Earth. They're a living robot who wants to defend their new home, since they're not going anywhere for a while.
Character 3 stole someone else's work, and is trying to reverse engineer and improve on it - in the meantime, using it to commit crimes and get rich, since they have to pay for research somehow.
Three different concepts, all technology origin.
So what happens? The character's tech has come to the attention of a mystery group. They want the tech for their own projects, and they'll do what they need to to learn about it and make it their own.
Now, why would a group that wants to steal *tech* be at all interested in Madame Wand, who uses magic (something far outside their interests) to do their thing? They're not into biological research, so mutants and naturals- who cares?
This can tailor at least some of the experience closer to a player's character *without* stepping on the toes of their backstory.
That same player can then go through and make a magic character and be drawn along a different storyline with all the magic groups from 1-50, getting pulled into a full fledged "magic war" or something, giving a fresh experience instead of doing the same things they just finished.
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Wow, I can't believe I even have to point out the difference between people avoiding content they don't like and people who are locked out of content because the game will not let them access it due to other choices. The only content people are "locked out of" is the other side's tutorials and Praetorian missions for non-Praetorians, I believe (I don't think Praetorian missions are accessible through Ouroboros, I could be wrong).|
Originally Posted by Model 75
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And, of course, certain content is locked to VIP players or specific purchases, but Paragon has to stay in business somehow.
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The game doesn't need to encourage alts any more than it does already, especially at the cost of penalising people who don't want alts. It's already the most alt-friendly game I'm aware of, and a VIP gets a ridiculous number of slots to play around with.|
Originally Posted by Stormbird
... except, of course, that the game wants to encourage alts - more money coming in, after all - which would give people reason to roll more and buy more slots.
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If you're seriously suggesting that a Free player is going to decide to go Premium by buying a very expensive character slot for the sake of seeing another Origin's story, you are sorely mistaken. Either people will just reroll, or as has been my experience every time I try to explain the benefits of buying anything, simply not bother.
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Originally Posted by Stormbird
I really think some of you need to be exposed to sets of story arcs like this to see how good they can be. (Assuming the dev team does them decently, of course.)
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I'm not against 1-50 story arcs that have a specific origin flavour. I'm against locking them behind an Origin restriction. City of Heroes is a game of choice. If people want to take their power armour dude into a long, winding arc against magic users because of the sense of dissonance, then why not?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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^ This. |
Originally Posted by RuthlessSamael
Wow, I can't believe I even have to point out the difference between people avoiding content they don't like and people who are locked out of content because the game will not let them access it due to other choices. The only content people are "locked out of" is the other side's tutorials and Praetorian missions for non-Praetorians, I believe (I don't think Praetorian missions are accessible through Ouroboros, I could be wrong).
And, of course, certain content is locked to VIP players or specific purchases, but Paragon has to stay in business somehow. |
Personal choice =/= being actually locked out.
Personally, I'd MUCH rather have content that everyone could play, where they used the new dialogue tech to actually detect what origin players were and commenting on that, or making missions have (vague, non tampering) origin flavoured twists.
Also, that avoids the danger which the original lowbie Hero origin specific missions fell into (besides the fact they were old, bad and badly written) in that doing the same thing over and over for characters gets really. Damn. Dull.
Variety is good, but only when it's done right.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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So much complaining. I hope my objections to things in the past were reasonable, and not quite this stick-in-the-mud-ish.
I'd be thrilled to see this happen. (If I trusted the devs and their writing, which is not a flaw with the idea.) I'm 100% for this. Especially after seeing how it's handled elsewhere. One of the things I liked about the Kheld arcs (and Voids) is that they felt like the game world having some reaction to me, specifically, not "Generic character #9087454 doing generic madlib mission #4872391."
Having some outside force going "What, a new magic user? I must have their power!" (as opposed to "Oh, look, another generic hero, send more generic minions") while someone completely different is trying to go after my Bots/Traps character's tech would do nothing but help keep the game fresh with repeated runthroughs. (As opposed to, say, Twinshot, which I burned out on after two runs because, oh look, just like redside had, everyone gets to see the exact... same... thing... every... single... time.)
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Welcome back. We missed you.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
So much complaining. I hope my objections to things in the past were reasonable, and not quite this stick-in-the-mud-ish.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Not really back. Went to put in a post in the tech issues/bugs regarding unlocks and a quick suggestion. I'm mostly in a galaxy far far away when I'm gaming these days, and taking care of sick family when I'm not. (Which takes more time.)
A few thoughts to start with:
So:
We have five origins. Why don't we have 1-50 sets of story arcs, like other games have "class quests" or "class storylines?"
I know we don't have backgrounds forced on our characters, other than Khelds and Veats, and even those are kind of loose for the individual character. Giving an origin-based set of story lines wouldn't interfere with that (and yes, that means epic ATs would get two, one for the class, one for the origin.)
This isn't really about why your character is what he or her is. It's someone else's interest in your character for their own ends.
Pros:
Cons or problems: