All-Around Trial Toolbox Character


Arcanaville

 

Posted

I know there is no such thing as a "best" anything, but I've been wondering what character people feel would be an ideal one for essentially being the all-around performer guy who when well played pretty much ensured any league always had that "one thing" necessary to complete the trial. Note that this isn't a character who is there to solo the trial, but the one to make sure even the worst leagues can still progress.

Thinking about this led me to a possibly weird conclusion that points to a character I've never actually seen in play: an Illusion/Thermal/Fire Controller. While I have no intention of rolling one just for this, I notice that this character would:

- have a non-aggro confusion power that stacks quickly
- be able to heal disentegrating targets during Keyes
- have hefty -Regen for big bosses
- be a strong counter to the UG bosses' Confusion
- have resistance shields for the team
- be able to off-tank in an emergency
- be able to self heal quickly (note: I've found this to be very helpful in general)
- be able to self rezz if killed
- do suprisingly decent DPS to bosses once Controllers get automatic Containment bonuses in issue 22
- be able to resurrect players during MOM (unfortunately not very often)
- electively have the ability to make the group invisible (not very useful elsewhere, potentially very useful in lambda and tpn depending on the type of teammates you get)

The character's main weakness would be the runners during BAF.

I also noticed something weird: according to Mids, the anti-confuse in Thaw doesn't stack from the same caster, so you'd need to take Tactics if you wanted to make it a sure bet. Still, if the Confusion is mag 12 like I think, one Thermal Controller with Tactics rotating Thaw across the league could keep one team entirely Confusion free, and make it so all other teams need only 1 Break Free to eliminate it.

Sidenote: is it possible to slot Hami-Os to increase mezz protection? I note that a Thermal Defender has 12.98 Confusion defense in Thaw and could protect a whole UG league by him or herself if s/he did nothing but rotate casts of that power. The Controller starts at Mag 10.38, so if Hami-Os can push it over the top it would be worth slotting.

Sonic/Thermal Defender and Fire/Thermal Corruptor also get very high marks from me in terms of their trial viability.

What other characters are competitive?


 

Posted

Illusion is great.

Ill/Therm is what I would suggest.

- have a non-aggro confusion power that stacks quickly
[Deceive]
- be able to heal disentegrating targets during Keyes
[Cauterize] [Warmth]
- have hefty -Regen for big bosses
[Heat Exhaustion]
- be a strong counter to the UG bosses' Confusion
[Thaw] + Clarion
- have resistance shields for the team
[Fire Shield][Thermal Shield]
- be able to off-tank in an emergency
[Phantom Army]
- be able to self heal quickly (note: I've found this to be very helpful in general)
[Warmth] + [Aid Self]
- be able to self rezz if killed
[Wakie] or [Rise of the Phoenix]
- do suprisingly decent DPS to bosses once Controllers get automatic Containment bonuses in issue 22
can get around 300-400 dps most likely.
- be able to resurrect players during MOM (unfortunately not very often)
[Power of the Phoenix]
- electively have the ability to make the group invisible (not very useful elsewhere, potentially very useful in lambda and tpn depending on the type of teammates you get)
[Group Invisibility]

Looks like you have a winner.



Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.

 

Posted

My VEAT is a jack of all trades, master of nothing.
I always say he is a Blapping Cranker (Blaster Scrapper Crab Tank Controller)

Come to Guardian and ask about Nephila.



Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Posted

Problem with Controllers are the iTrials where AoE is not welcome and with so many AoE attacks and uncontrollable pets, it will put you at a disadvantage.

And I don't have a clue why confuse is important. The AVs are immune and the foes can't really damage each other because of the debuffs the rest of the league throws down on them.

Sounds like you want a Tankermind with either Dark, Poison, Pain, Thermal, or Traps. Then take Provoke and whatever Pool or Incarnate powers to round out the character.


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Posted

You could also go for an always welcome Kin and use Barrier Destiny to shield your allies.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Pine_ View Post
- do suprisingly decent DPS to bosses once Controllers get automatic Containment bonuses in issue 22
I have not seen any info regarding such changes.... >.> can you please elaborate of what's to come or direct me to post that does so?


Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30

 

Posted

Against Incarnate Trial bosses, controllers will always get Containment damage. No source other than the wiki, though, but if you want to see all the stuff (which isn't much), you can do so here.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaCrash View Post
Against Incarnate Trial bosses, controllers will always get Containment damage. No source other than the wiki, though, but if you want to see all the stuff (which isn't much), you can do so here.
TY Kindly!


Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
And I don't have a clue why confuse is important. The AVs are immune and the foes can't really damage each other because of the debuffs the rest of the league throws down on them.

I beg to differ on them not being able to hurt each other. Victorias and War Walkers dish ridiculous amounts of damage. Vickies in particular are ridiculous, not to mention extremely dangerous to confront for most squishy characters head on. I have a built in death allowance on any given trial for "death by Victoria," which usually involves a nearly full HP bar crashing in one shot as I run by. Particularly a likely possibility during Keyes. Confusion is aggroless and turns those attacks in your favor.

If you're talking about moments where the whole league pile drives a spawn at once, that's a different story, and not one most leagues are likely to fail.


 

Posted

A note as an Illusion Controller on a BAF: My Illusion/Sonic/Fire troller has very few problems helping in the prisoner phase of the BAF. It's basically like being a MM during that phase since I have 6 attacking pets, the downside being I can't order them this way or that. I have to concur with most of your other assessments on Illusion/Thermal/Fire, though there has never been a time where I didn't feel like I was helping simply because PA is pretty much superawesome.


 

Posted

K, then. If you're hoping to confuse several bosses in a spawn as self protection, you're going to limit yourself certain ATs and power sets and thus probably not be able to do everything else you want to do.

Illusion, by itself, won't stack Confuse quickly enough to save you from three bosses and allow you to do anything else but spam Deceive.


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Posted

I'm with Z-man. What you want is a bots/traps. Henchmen are all but immune to the AV powers, and bodyguard still resists unresistable damage, and they all get extra level shifts. Tankerminding never felt so good.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I'm with Z-man. What you want is a bots/traps. Henchmen are all but immune to the AV powers, and bodyguard still resists unresistable damage, and they all get extra level shifts. Tankerminding never felt so good.
This.

On a fast-moving trials, MM's are ponderous at best to get from place to place, but they are invaluable when it comes time to drop anchor and ANNIHILATE something. Not to mention the buffs/debuff/ridiculousness of the bots/traps combo.


 

Posted

Quote:
- have a non-aggro confusion power that stacks quickly
- be able to heal disentegrating targets during Keyes
- have hefty -Regen for big bosses
- be a strong counter to the UG bosses' Confusion
- have resistance shields for the team
- be able to off-tank in an emergency
- be able to self heal quickly (note: I've found this to be very helpful in general)
- be able to self rezz if killed
- do suprisingly decent DPS to bosses once Controllers get automatic Containment bonuses in issue 22
- be able to resurrect players during MOM (unfortunately not very often)
- electively have the ability to make the group invisible (not very useful elsewhere, potentially very useful in lambda and tpn depending on the type of teammates you get)
A lot of this list isn't necessary, since there's more than one way to skin a goat. e.g. on Keyes it's often more practical to try and DPS through disintegration heals than to attempt to save players, since it only heals AM for 20% now. Thus, -Res and damage are more effective than heals. Confuse isn't important, at least not more than any other control. No one vicky gets past properly designed, multilayered defence in depth consisting of debuffs, controls, def/res, heals, high DPS and a working brain. Any classic top-tier buffdebuff build (rad/sonic, fire/dark etc.) with properly chosen ipowers will handle everything that this list is trying to handle.

MoM and UG need you to be able to pull AVs to specific places even when other players are attacking them. Since only melee characters can do this reliably, it pays to have a good melee character to go with your buffdebuff as well. Shield is convenient since it's immune to the Avatar's perma-confuse, but there are other good options as well.


 

Posted

1. My Ill/Rad/Fire seems to do well everywhere except the prisoner escape part of BAF, where I just don't quite have the single target damage to be as effective as, say, a blaster or high damage corruptor. I do ok, but not great there. But still, indestructible pets, heals, buffs, debuffs, rez, confuse - I'm rarely at a loss for being highly useful in iTrials. My Ill/Rad is still, seven years and counting, by far and away by most versatile character.

2. The Avatar room confuse is Mag 20.


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Posted

I'm waiting to make a tankermind until MMs get cold domination :/

(My favorite support set hands down)



Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.

 

Posted

My apologies, but a lot of people seem to be listing trial characters who are just good at trials in general and not actually what I am talking about. I have some favorite builds too, which does not actually include the character I posited. Part of that is my fault for the title of the thread. In any case, a character who can't actually heal wouldn't qualify unless someone can show how it would answer to Disentegrate. Most of the characters listed sound like great characters, but don't specifically meet the "most likely to have correct support" requirement. If we just wanted to talk about characters who are very good, I think the list would have to be a lot longer, and include everything from perma-Doms to good Tankers. The central requirement of what I'm discussing is support options though, specifically support options unlikely to be duplicated by other league members and could become the lynchpin that prevents a failure or enables easy mode.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The Avatar room confuse is Mag 20.
Ouch. And that was the main one I was worried about. I did learn from City of Data that Thaw stacks some anti mezzes and not others, and it just so happens Confuse isn't one of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
MoM and UG need you to be able to pull AVs to specific places even when other players are attacking them. Since only melee characters can do this reliably, it pays to have a good melee character to go with your buffdebuff as well. Shield is convenient since it's immune to the Avatar's perma-confuse, but there are other good options as well.
Agreed that this type of character is useful, but it doesn't really support.


Quote:
...on Keyes it's often more practical to try and DPS through disintegration heals than to attempt to save players, since it only heals AM for 20% now.
Neither agree nor disagree, although again that's a factor of the league and not the toon. I am looking for which support sets can most consistently work with whatever they are given and still pull through. My general feeling is that DPS is rarely what is missing from leagues. In any case, the DPS contribution of saving even 1 team member from death by Disentegration is enormous, likely a bigger contribution than any actual damage an individual teammate is able to deliver. You could just get better teammates, but that isn't the jist of the question. I do tend to think a Thermal, Empath, or Pain would do better to go on a heal duty during this fight than to try to DPS, especially if they have pets they can let loose.

Case in point, the last time I ran Keyes, Disentegrate killed so many teammates AM went from 25% HP to 100% and stayed there over a minute. We only won in the end because I happened to be his last target, and happened to have 3 greens left.


 

Posted

My toon Nephila, a Crab Spider:
-Dual Leadership pools (2x +def, 2x +tohit, 2x +dam.)
-Most powers are Def Debuff.
-With Rebirth I have a decent healer.
-Web Grenade to bring down all flying foes (Immob, -Rech)
-Lore for some mighty pets (Arachnos Core T4)
-16 T4 powers to accommodate the team and switch to what is needed.
-Mixed attacks. (Melee and Ranged)
-Can Tank if needed.

One of the better support toons i can think of.



Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN

 

Posted

Confuse can be useful in Keyes. Confused Warworks don't count as present at the terminals. However, to reliably confuse the whole spawn you'd probably have to play as a dom or a mind controller (to stack and pick up those you missed). Unfortunately, the same trick doesn't work in the TPN.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
I am looking for which support sets can most consistently work with whatever they are given and still pull through.
Any of the traditional powerhouse ones. Rad, Time, Dark, Cold, etc. Therm is versatile and has res shields instead of def ones, but is difficult to design a capable build for, and has the big weakness that its -Res is on too long a timer to make it an every-spawn power.

I understand what you're trying to do because I build for it on all my characters. But I think you're making a mistake by considering only direct counters e.g. +Res vs. BAF towers, heals vs. Disintegration. I think it's more useful to consider how to accomplish the same result. BAF towers for example, res shields aren't needed because with clever maneuvering to ensure only 1 tower is shooting you at any point, it's very easy to pull the AVs.

In the case of Keyes, the desired result is: AM dead, trial successful. You can do it with heals, or you can try to stack -Res and +Dmg and pull out lore pets. My experience with new Keyes at least is that they're equally successful. And while you're right that an emp etc. would be better off pulling healing duty, it hasn't been proven if they would be more effective than a Rad/Sonic stacking -80% res on him. I've failed Keyes before on my Emp. Targetted heals are dependent on plenty of external factors to be successful here (willingness of other players to let you heal them being the big one).

One day more trials will be released and then you may get new situations that need direct counters you don't have. I think rather than focusing on having the correct support for every situation, it's probably more practical to focus on designing characters that are versatile and well-rounded in general because such characters will never be very disadvantaged.

Quote:
Agreed that this type of character is useful, but it doesn't really support.
Only if you consider support in the classic sense of buff/debuff/control. Most UG leagues will wipe without a skilled melee to handle the war walker and the Avatar.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
My VEAT is a jack of all trades, master of nothing.
I always say he is a Blapping Cranker (Blaster Scrapper Crab Tank Controller)

Come to Guardian and ask about Nephila.
This was my first thought in those regards as well. While I really dont think there is any one character that fills every single need for every single trial .. My crab is a combination blaster/MM with tons of AoE and, along with her lore pets, 8 pets she can summon to add to her damage output.

Her pets ake her perfect for the prisoner escape phase of any BAF

Her defense and survivability make her good on any Lambda

Defense, Damage and pets prove usefull on Keyes

As long as she is assigned to inside teams she is great at taking out IDF and Tecnicians on a TPN

Thanks to her long range attacks she can move around and continue to do damage on the nightmare phase of any MoM

He natural resistance to psi, and confuse, along with the properly slotted destiny allow her to breeze through a well run UG

Any well played AT can be beneficial to any trial and with the right incarnate powers slotted you just add more.


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Posted

Quote:
Only if you consider support in the classic sense of buff/debuff/control.

Which I am, because it's how I framed the question. (Although I admit I worded it poorly in the original post.)

Like I said before, if I had just wanted to look at characters who are "good" at trials or provide some utility, I'd have to list dozens of builds, including some characters I actually own or intend to play, as opposed to the posited character.


Quote:
...it hasn't been proven if they would be more effective than a Rad/Sonic stacking -80% res on him
This is why I listed Sonic/Therm as a possible alt.


 

Posted

Hmmm.

Defender with leadership pool, for confuse/terror defenses. Cold primary. Sonic secondary.

Ice shields to make stuff miss, ice shields for extra resists, and benumb. Sonic for the -resist, including a handy cone.

Oh, benumb, how I love it....

Cold/sonics melt hard targets as well as anything. Leadership toggles to add a hefty confuse/terror. Ice storm for teh win. Heat loss for moar debuff and infinite endo.

it is teh nice.


 

Posted

Are you factoring in Incarnate abilities in this? If so, Lore Pets can provide -Regen, Continual Knockback or massive single target DPS, depending on what hole you're looking to fill. T4 Rebirth's Regen and handing one or two green inspirations can allow anyone to survive being disintegrated, or you can use Barrier to revive two people every 2 minutes while also buffing the entire league - all a nice means of opening up more support options for you to look at.

You can also count on constantly using Vengeance for your teammates to allow at least one team to survive or recover from the beginnings of a league wipe.


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