Dark/Dark: Blaster, Defender or Corruptor?
By
Combat,
Posted on: 2012-01-02 16:05 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I can't see your builds because I'm on Mac OS X now, but the dark secondary for blasters is the only one that doesn't mesh well with the dark primary - Dark Blast is cones and KB, and dark assault (or whatever it's called) is melee/PbAoE centered.
Any other dark/dark combo is good (even the melee ones), although I don't like dark blast's damage output except on Blasters since theirs is a bit different (I have a dark/mm who only jumps into melee to use drain psyche, very survivable combo and one extra sweet cone).
Agreed but you gotta admit that blasters with soul drain is pretty crazy - I have a dark/dark blaster in his 20s and I cannot wait to slot up soul drain - it is that good.
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Yeah, I built the Dark/Dark Blaster to be largely melee-based, a Blapper basically, with decent defenses to most types and built with a lot of -ToHit (with Intuition Alpha) and the -ToHit Interface, and decent resistances.
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That has nothing to do with the fact that the two sets are almost anti-synergistic, the best thing about blaster's DB is the cone chain and one of them does a ton of KB, which the other cone doesn't prevent (TT). A fire/dark can skip Breath and never jump back to maximize the AoEs (and then KB mobs with Torrent, uh, now it's hard to use shadow maul), neither a rad/dark since rad blast loves being in melee. Dark Blast has no targetted AoEs (ok nuke is a PbAoE but who cares, you'll never use it often) so you'll keep jumping back and forth to use the cones and all the melee goodness from the dark secondary. And Torrent, unlike the def/corr version, is a great power for damage and survivability.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Agreed but you gotta admit that blasters with soul drain is pretty crazy - I have a dark/dark blaster in his 20s and I cannot wait to slot up soul drain - it is that good.
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Sure anything's playable and can be made good in this game but I see dark/dark on blaster almost on the level of an energy/fire in terms of synergy.
Electrifying Fences in Mu Mastery grants knockback protection to the target. The AoE immobilizes in the other patron sets (including Web Envelope) don't, though. )-:
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Yeah, and I don't want no-kb on my dark |
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Electrifying Fences in Mu Mastery grants knockback protection to the target. The AoE immobilizes in the other patron sets (including Web Envelope) don't, though. )-:
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I love having a good chain of cones since SOs on mine (Psy Scream - TT - Torrent) and with life drain plus drain psyche it's a very survivable blaster on SOs, the most I've ever had. Maybe I'll even skip PSW since I only go to melee to use DP (haven't got there yet), I also got TK Thrust as a 'get off me' power (not sure I'll keep it tho, since Torrent recharges kinda fast even on SOs and the tentacles also help keeping the mobs away). I love what they did on Dark Blast for Blasters (even the hold has good damage) because on a corr I wasn't feeling it especially with the lack of strong ST dmg.
Not that I'm 'opposed' to non-synergistic toons, I enjoy my energy/ice more than my dark/mm, she's a hover blaster and I do tons of maneuvering with her - a keybind to drop hover and use ice patch helps but I'm finding ice patch kinda underwhelming with the short 10' radius and 3.5 cast time, I have faceplanted some trying to protect suicidal scrappers lol.
Now that you bring it up, I bet Siren's Song + Oppressive Gloom might work wonders for Darkness Manipulation...
Oh, uh, but as for the OP, you might see some troubles with all the knockback screwing up the buffs. (-:
I love my dark/dark blaster level 33 shadoe nose. He is a swiss army knife of blasting. I do not understand the anti-synergistic comment at all. Build up, THEN blast. Follow the tank in, wait a couple sec's for the tank get aggro, hit buildup, hit blackstar, pop blue pez, suck endurance from any survivors - got to love the 95% accuracy cap.
I don't nuke every spawn, because the teams usually move that fast. I could sit there and spam my single target tentacle with the tenebrous tentacles non-stop. The melee attacks have no kb. It's not end efficient, but shadow maul/sands of mu is good for munching a lot of minions fast.
I did take the cone knockback power, but it's a tool in my swiss army knife, certainly not a featured go-to attack chain member. The dark hold is gold! I didn't take a snipe either.
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Correct, I never mentioned it on purpose - all I talked about was how amazing Soul Drain is for blasters.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
That has nothing to do with the fact that the two sets are almost anti-synergistic, the best thing about blaster's DB is the cone chain and one of them does a ton of KB, which the other cone doesn't prevent (TT). A fire/dark can skip Breath and never jump back to maximize the AoEs (and then KB mobs with Torrent, uh, now it's hard to use shadow maul), neither a rad/dark since rad blast loves being in melee. Dark Blast has no targetted AoEs (ok nuke is a PbAoE but who cares, you'll never use it often) so you'll keep jumping back and forth to use the cones and all the melee goodness from the dark secondary. And Torrent, unlike the def/corr version, is a great power for damage and survivability.
Sure anything's playable and can be made good in this game but I see dark/dark on blaster almost on the level of an energy/fire in terms of synergy. |
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Don't forget in issue 22 you can have a Dark/Dark Dominator or Controller as well.
I think the only possible answer is to make a dark character of each AT. It would be thematic at least. XD Hope you have enough character slots, haha!
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I don't even consider the crash nukes, I only see them as 'fun' powers that will let you kill a mob once in a while instead of mashing more buttons or letting the team work in the spawn. I have fun with Nova but I don't think crash nukes are anything more than entertaining powers due to the absurd recharge times, unlike the crashless ones which are all very good (awesome in the case of AR and Archery).|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
I love my dark/dark blaster level 33 shadoe nose. He is a swiss army knife of blasting. I do not understand the anti-synergistic comment at all. Build up, THEN blast. Follow the tank in, wait a couple sec's for the tank get aggro, hit buildup, hit blackstar, pop blue pez, suck endurance from any survivors - got to love the 95% accuracy cap.
I don't nuke every spawn, because the teams usually move that fast. I could sit there and spam my single target tentacle with the tenebrous tentacles non-stop. The melee attacks have no kb. It's not end efficient, but shadow maul/sands of mu is good for munching a lot of minions fast. I did take the cone knockback power, but it's a tool in my swiss army knife, certainly not a featured go-to attack chain member. The dark hold is gold! I didn't take a snipe either. |
Should I give more examples?
Fire/wp scrapper - no special synergy, but your fire melee powers will never get in the way of your secondary. Now TW/WP has synergy because the KD will help you regen while mobs are not attacking. Same way Energy Melee/Regen is considered problematic by some because EM has two loooong animating attacks that can get you killed when you need some clickie while kat/regen has synergy because of the +def power and the quick animations (I have an elec/regen stalker and I don't get killed while using thunderstrike but many people consider EM bad for regen due to the two long hard hitters, also the fact they're ST and do no KD like T-Strike).
Now, on to blasters - Dark/Dark, you'll never maximize your AoE cones and use the melee powers+Soul Drain 'at the same time' (figuratively speaking) since the ranged cones require jumping back, so primary gets in the way of the secondary - you don't hit a lot of targets with Tentacles at point blank like a fire blaster does with fireball or Rain of Fire. Rad/Fire or Rad/Dark - no need to ever leave melee and use all your AoEs at will, Electron Haze is a cone but it's skippable on rad blast. My Dark/MM can just use Aim+BU and spam cones, jumping to melee to get a regen/recov boost from DP is not as troublesome as having fast recharging melee/pBAoE attacks. And with the 3-cone chain you can skip PSW, while a dark/dark has fewer AoE options outside of epics so skipping Torrent for the KB is not as viable since it's a good AoE.
It's painfully obvious. Just bear in mind, this has nothing to do with the toon being good or not, or your choice to do more ST damage is not valid or etc. As I said, the blaster I enjoy the most is a NRG/Ice, most of my toons aren't powergaming material, at least the ones I really like. My main hero is a mind/emp and I still think mind/ is better on a dom because my troller has no reliable way to set up containment and do AoE damage on teams (no immob, and the combo of mass hypnosis + terrify or epic AoE doesn't really work in teams since they break sleep almost immediately). I have an IO'ed incarnated SS/Fire Brute that is absolutely crazy on damage and can survive well but he's been at the market for months because I got bored with him and I make more money at WW than farming with him, which is another thing he excels at. My main villain is a EM/Nin Stalker, and while it's still a good combo, I'd be better off with KM/Nin or Elec/Nin, I just enjoy EM.
All I'm saying is, if it's still not that obvious, is that from all dark/dark combos we have in the game, the blaster one is the only one that some primary powers may get in the way of the secondary ones and vice versa (well unless you get corr/def Torrent which is a sucky power since it does little/no damage, I can't recall, and a dark/dark corr or def doesn't need the extra protection from KB, maybe not your blaster either, but Umbral Torrent is good damage). I never said it's a 'bad' combo. Oppressive Gloom was a little detrimental to dark/dark Brutes when fury was harder to build, but now that you can get and keep Fury so easily with any set, it's not really to the point it gets in the way of your other powers since you'll be using Soul Drain before mobs wander away too far.
I am a owner of a Dark/Dark/Soul Defender. While she's NOT a damage dealer she is a GREAT support character. No shortage of debuffs, two holds (Soul Storm is an awesome hold), Immobilize, a decent heal that debuffs your foe, a rez that ALSO debuffs your foe... With Darkest Night locked on to a target you can softcap your defenses via To Hit Debuffs. You can debuff To Hit with other powers, but also Resitance. You aslo get a pet.
Overall a Dark/Dark/Soul combines debuffs and control in a nice package. Not heavy on the damage though so if you solo a lot it will be a slow grind.
i would tell you to try both the dark/dark/soul blaster [to play as a ranged beast or blapper, though then i'd just be a dark/dark/soul scrapper] or the dark/dark/soul corr/def [the same to me really, dep if you want endurance management or dmg output.] i realize this doesnt answe the question lol soooo
then i'd also say try blaster first. if that doesnt suit you then do the defender. since you said it's sand themed, ask yourself "do i want a sand-man [dark maisma pet] or more sand-worm-tentacles[dark/dark/soul blast has what, four powers with tentacles: two single immobs, and two cones of them]?"
mmmmm. tentacles. [i love my blaster. he's squid themed. shoots ink :P]
Having played a Kinetics/Dark Defender to 50 I can seriously advise you against going Dark Blast on a Defender. Knowing what I know now rather than what I knew when I made the character all the DoT just screams to be a Corruptor for lovely scourge ticks.
As for Blaster/Corruptor, it's very hard not to choose Dark Miasma over Darkness Manipulation, but then I'm not a huge fan of blasters to begin with. I'd vote a Dark/Dark Cor and strongly advise you against choosing Dark Blast on a Defender.
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I not only admit it is crazy, I revel in it on my Sonic/Dark.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Agreed but you gotta admit that blasters with soul drain is pretty crazy - I have a dark/dark blaster in his 20s and I cannot wait to slot up soul drain - it is that good.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Now that you bring it up, I bet Siren's Song + Oppressive Gloom might work wonders for Darkness Manipulation...
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Under construction
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I tend to look on them as "things are getting out of control and stuff needs to die right now" powers, though occassionally I will just let go with Dreadful Wail just to take down a large spawn quickly. With perma-Hasten and slotting Recharge you could get it down to close to 2 minutes before set bonuses (3 minutes without perma-Hasten).|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
I don't even consider the crash nukes, I only see them as 'fun' powers that will let you kill a mob once in a while instead of mashing more buttons or letting the team work in the spawn. I have fun with Nova but I don't think crash nukes are anything more than entertaining powers due to the absurd recharge times, unlike the crashless ones which are all very good (awesome in the case of AR and Archery).
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| Now, on to blasters - Dark/Dark, you'll never maximize your AoE cones and use the melee powers+Soul Drain 'at the same time' (figuratively speaking) since the ranged cones require jumping back, so primary gets in the way of the secondary - you don't hit a lot of targets with Tentacles at point blank like a fire blaster does with fireball or Rain of Fire. |
Under construction
I love Dark Blast on Blaster but I don't like the synergy between Dark/Dark.
If you want a versatile dark/dark, go with Corruptor. Life Drain is 100% better now.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I think I would have to agree.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I love Dark Blast on Blaster but I don't like the synergy between Dark/Dark.
If you want a versatile dark/dark, go with Corruptor. Life Drain is 100% better now. |
I doubt a Dark/Dark Corr will match a Dark/Dark blaster for damage, but you'll have more options to keep yourself alive in addition to being a useful addition to most any team. Sure, the Defender is a better teammate, but the Corr isn't a slouch in support by any means either.
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Yeah I know, I play plenty of toons that require some work compared to other primaries. Just wanted to point out to the OP that since Dark Manipulation is all PbAoE and melee (Shadow Maul, D. Consumption, etc, well except the lolstun) and dark blast is good with cones it's not as easy going as 'lulz fire blast' which kinda goes well with anything, although I do prefer blaster's dark blast by miles compared to the corr/def versions - I like my dark/mm blaster but my dark/traps corr was rerolled to fire/traps because I didn't like the damage, maybe my impression, I got sick of DoT'ing everything - when I saw Nightfall was another DoT I gave up on the toon |
Originally Posted by Erratic
Soul Drain's benefits last 30 seconds. You should have ample time in most team situations to move in early, Soul Drain, and slide back out to range and cone to your heart's content. I certainly manage to do so on my blaster. Sure, it would be handier to be able to Soul Drain at range, but you're talking a few seconds lost out of 30 compared to using a set with Build Up and only having 10 seconds of enhanced damage.
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Both blaster powersets are well designed, I just don't like much how they complement each other (or not). Bad design imo is Ice Control espeially on doms since they don't debuff and rely on Ice Slick a lot, I took the AoE immob on my ice/psi just because the purple set was cheap at the time lol.
And I'd trade BU for Soul Drain in most of my toons like my kat/regen, or a fire/fire blaster/scrapper, it's a great power.
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Yeah I agree.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Yeah I know, I play plenty of toons that require some work compared to other primaries. Just wanted to point out to the OP that since Dark Manipulation is all PbAoE and melee (Shadow Maul, D. Consumption, etc, well except the lolstun) and dark blast is good with cones it's not as easy going as 'lulz fire blast' which kinda goes well with anything, although I do prefer blaster's dark blast by miles compared to the corr/def versions - I like my dark/mm blaster but my dark/traps corr was rerolled to fire/traps because I didn't like the damage, maybe my impression, I got sick of DoT'ing everything - when I saw Nightfall was another DoT I gave up on the toon
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Blaster's Dark Blast is such a safe set for all-range gameplay with aoe knockback, aoe immb and a single hold that acts as another attack.
/Dark on the other hand, encourages you to go closer to the mobs.
The two just don't mesh that well. I finally level my Dark/MM to 48 last night. She survived really well. Drained Psyche makes sure I have enough endurance all the time.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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It seems odd to me to criticize Dark Manipulation for encouraging a blaster to get closer and then sing the praises of Drain Psyche which requires you to get every bit as close as you would for Soul Drain.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
The two just don't mesh that well. I finally level my Dark/MM to 48 last night. She survived really well. Drained Psyche makes sure I have enough endurance all the time.
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And I am not sure what it is that suggests that if you have punches you're encouraged to get closer. You can use your punches on things that get close to you after all.
Under construction
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Lol true. While dark/dark is a fine pairing on a corr, dark miasma already offers so much protection and debuffage that I like to pair it with a higher damage primary with less utility (fire/darks are awesome since level 6, tar patch + RoF <3). Ok fine on defenders too but defender damage makes bunnies cry.
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Originally Posted by Combat
I'd wait until I22 and do either a controller or a dominator
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I really want to create a Dark/Dark character, but cannot decide on what. I really would appreciate any help or feedback or comparisions or suggestions to help me with this decision.
I made three tentative builds, one for each.
As far as my playstyle goes, I do prefer damage dealers usually - but can have a lot of fun playing support. What I suppose is most important to me is that when I team, I am able to see and know that I am contributing to the team in whatever role I am filling, whether its damage or support. I like to be clicking a lot, I don't like to just sit back and watch stuff happen, pressing a button every now and then.
I have Level 50 Blasters, Scrappers, and Corruptors, and high level Defenders and Controllers, so I'm familiar a bit with each archetype and playing both damage and support.
Pet peeves are endurance issues and (too) frequent deaths. If I can't make it through a mob without endurance crash or a death, then I'm seriously flawed! I also like to be able to solo, even though I rarely do.
I like powers with awesome animations.
The character concept is sand-based, and will be recoloring the dark powers to look like sand.
I could really use feedback on all of these builds, and a suggestion on which I should go with!
BLASTER:
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DEFENDER:
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CORRUPTOR:
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|F2DAB92772FB187A90004799215ADA8133EFD890EDFBB6E33 3F815FCC65449AF0B3|
|DEE428FBBD1E36EF4B83BC47C49E8856EEF7BCEDFF909FC08 7E601EA3D6F4DB37BC|
|24F79FE0BD0F9C044F315769CD10BC8750430C35C5504B2C2 2D97AC7696D9CF5943|
|86A1AF902A2A611D474D5274402BD4DE04EB6A9E5DF267DE8 11833591444D245913|
|19AD898CD544529548696A738C7B2D5C5CF7869B42884976C 68F4A44920E72E5F5F|
|B887DAAF85EB3FA6725A2486BACE93E0D9E61D69F65A6D5F2 FF0CB25D01FAF7C0EE|
|0EB9371D79AC558D3355E374D5D87E54BAEB49041E862AE3B 5AAF15F4FDB07CD|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
50s: Silent Spy - MA/Regen Scrapper | Tinkerhell - SS/Inv Brute | Extrasensory - Psi/Men Blaster | Ana Cruz - DP/PD Corruptor | Sara Thunderbird - Elec/Elec Scrapper | Pinstrike - Spines/SR Scrapper | Cold Feet - Cold/Cold Blaster
@Silent Spy, Champion Server