Spinning Strike takes what, now?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-12-31 13:17 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I'm perfectly fine with it accepting TAoE sets. The way the power works is interesting enough for a melee set (Like fireball, it hits the target, then everything AROUND the target, you don't even have to hit the initial target to beat up the mob around them).
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Very true. However, you also need a target to activate Shadow Maul, Pendulum, Cleave, Headsplitter and Golden Dragonfly, but those powers all take PBAOE sets. Why? Because they're melee powers.
But those are cones, right? Yet ranged cones like Throw Spines, Shockwave and Repulsing Torrent all require targets and all require Targeted AOE sets. Why? Because they're ranged. Spinning Strike is a melee AoE that's being shoehorned into a ranged set over nothing more than semantics, and the fact that it's the lone targeted melee AoE shouldn't make it the exception to the rule. I don't care so much - as I said, my build is done - but I have to scratch my head at the logic. And I keep responding to this thread because quite frankly I think it's setting a bad precedent for future melee AoE powers that just happen to require a target. It's a melee power. It should accept melee sets. |
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I've mentioned this to the devs several time. We have more snipe sets than we do TAoE sets. And as far as I know, you can only have two snipes, maximum. Whereas you can have more than enough TAoE attacks to make slotting the set with the useful properties go well over the 5 stack of identical bonuses.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Which makes me wonder... when they added two more sets for Pbaoe, how come people didn't request for more Target AoE set?
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Snipes have FIVE entire sets devoted to them. They ALL go to level 50. None of them are Purple or PVP.
TAoE's have THREE non-PvP non-Purple sets. They all go to fifty, but two of them don't have any bonuses really worth slotting for.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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I agree that I like Spinning Strike's TAoE-ness. It makes it act kinda like a cone, except less finicky with position.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
Yeah, but they made it fairly unique as a melee power that is a PBAOE that requires a target. I like it.
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Thunder Strike has been here since forever, though, works the same way, and takes PBAoE sets.
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True enough. But I support the change of pace. I'd be more of a fan of (the unlikely) change to make Thunder Strike function like Spinning, rather than any discussion of Spinning needing to change.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I agree that I like Spinning Strike's TAoE-ness. It makes it act kinda like a cone, except less finicky with position.
Thunder Strike has been here since forever, though, works the same way, and takes PBAoE sets. |
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And how would you then address the resulting disparity between ranged cones taking TAoE sets and Melee Cones taking PBAoE sets?|
Originally Posted by Chyll
True enough. But I support the change of pace. I'd be more of a fan of (the unlikely) change to make Thunder Strike function like Spinning, rather than any discussion of Spinning needing to change.
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The number of melee AoE powers that take melee sets - regardless of whether or not they are targeted - far outweighs the number of targeted powers that require targeted sets because of the word "target."
The real problem here is the nomenclature of the AoE sets. Single Target sets are divided into Melee and Ranged Damage. For some unfathomable reason AoE sets went with Point Blank and Targeted. Perhaps they should have been named Melee and Ranged AoE Damage, because - up until this power - that's how they were assigned.
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How, exactly? Assassin's Strike and LRM Rocket do not take snipe sets.
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Originally Posted by Von Krieger
And as far as I know, you can only have two snipes, maximum..
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
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Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Even if it does, why would you care. It's a circle at the end of the range, not a cone, so you're not increasing the AoE as you do with a cone.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Perhaps, but the range enhancement in the T'AoE sets WILL affect Spinning Strike's Range - my Crab threw 3 Centrioles into Arm Lash to make it a 16' cone.
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Thunderstrike.
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Originally Posted by Mandu
Can you trigger the power without a target? If not then it's targeted.
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Thunderstrike needs a target.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
Thunderstrike.
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And takes PBAoE sets, I believe was his point.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Thunderstrike needs a target.
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The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Oh I thought he was saying TS doesn't need a target since we have TONS of powers that need a target and use PbAOE sets - Shadow Maul, Crowd Control, the TW cones, Headsplitter, etc. I know those are usual melee cones unlike TS and Spinning Strike but thought the discussion was around needing a target or not.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
And takes PBAoE sets, I believe was his point.
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And as you said, all the other powers that need a target and have more range than the normal melee one (breath of fire, shockwave, throw spines, frost) use TAoE sets which is logical since they are powers that work just like say, Psychic Scream, Frost Breath and Umbral Torrent, only the range is shorter.
I think Spinning Strike is Targeted because you smash the guy you hit into everyone else.
...
Beyond that, it would make more sense to be a cone, really.
Shocking Bolt.
Single Target? Check.
Ranged? Check.
Hold? Check.
Accepts PBAoE Damage IO sets? Check.
Wait, what?
/thread
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Lol that's gotta be a bug, the 'original' Shocking Bolt for Blasters accepts the usual sets (hold, ranged dmg, endmod) but the Corr version accepts PbAoEs from what I see in Mid's. Certainly not intentional |
Originally Posted by Scirion
Shocking Bolt.
Single Target? Check. Ranged? Check. Hold? Check. Accepts PBAoE Damage IO sets? Check. Wait, what? /thread |
EDIT: Oh wait the Defender version also accepts PbAoE, but isn't the Defender version the newer epic power for Electric? I only remember Blasters having it before, but I don't have a high level def.
Why not just PM Synapse and put this to rest finally? Its crazy that this takes TAoE sets when other powers just like it dont. I still say its a bug.
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I certainly hope it isn't.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Why not just PM Synapse and put this to rest finally? Its crazy that this takes TAoE sets when other powers just like it dont. I still say its a bug.
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And, it was discussed in beta, and has been brought up on live more than once now.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
I got a PM back from Synapse. He said its working as designed but he has considered changing it. Thats all he said. I hope they do change it because as of now the IO sets it takes really does not help melees that much from the enhancing part as well as the set bonuses. If it does not get changed then I will just use the ATIOs for that power.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
There is no good reason to change it. I could see more TAOE sets being introduced but that would affect rarity for all sets.
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It helps fine. And I like that the set has some unique flair. I hope he doesn't change it.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I got a PM back from Synapse. He said its working as designed but he has considered changing it. Thats all he said. I hope they do change it because as of now the IO sets it takes really does not help melees that much from the enhancing part as well as the set bonuses. If it does not get changed then I will just use the ATIOs for that power.
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City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
I will be very, very annoyed if they do change it.
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Incorrect. |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Shadow Maul/Pendulum/Cleave/Eviscerate/whatever are all cone-based powers that are targeted around the target of an attack and not a player-based cone (like Vorpal Judgement). They take PBAoE sets.
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Spinning Strike is NOT a cone. It is a circular AoE that is centered around the target of the attack. Unlike a cone, if you target is close enough to you, you can indeed hit something behind you.
It works just like Fireball or Ball Lightning, just with a much shorter range.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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More accurately, it works like Thunderstrike, which takes PBAoE sets.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It works just like Fireball or Ball Lightning, just with a much shorter range.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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You're missing the point. Spinning Strike is a circular AoE that is centered around the target of attack just like Fireball or Ball Lightning (see the post above mine about Thunderstrike) - just with a much shorter range, and all those cones I mentioned work exactly like ranged cones like fire breath and shockwave, just with a much shorter range. Yet fire breath and shockwave take targeted aoe sets (and as mentioned the melee cones take pbaoe)|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Incorrect.
Spinning Strike is NOT a cone. It is a circular AoE that is centered around the target of the attack. Unlike a cone, if you target is close enough to you, you can indeed hit something behind you. It works just like Fireball or Ball Lightning, just with a much shorter range. |
With cones, the way it works was irrelevant when deciding whether to use a melee or ranged set. All that differentiates what set a melee cone slots from what a ranged cone slots is - you guessed it - the range.
So, in light of the treatment for melee verse ranged cones and the treatment of ranged TAoE powers verses Thunderstrike (the only other melee TAoE power), the argument that Spinning Strike should take the same sets as Fireball because it has the same mechanics is pure rubbish.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Now personally I think that Spinning Strike should have been a PBAOE. That is after all what it's effects are. But there is probably something in the combo mechanism that only allows the buffs to be put on targeted attacks.