Thinking about building my own PC
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2011-12-27 13:59 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
I say go with Hyperstrike's advice.
Go with the evil empire: Intel
AMD's choice of putting out the Bulldozer cpus is just 
The problem was the Phenom II chips were better. So they killed the 45nm Phenom II/Athlon II chips and will stick with the awful Bulldozer and the decent but (Athlon II performing) on 32nm Llano.
Fear not, AMD marketing is going to work their magic! They are going to sell a 32nm Phenom II x8 (Failed Bulldozer chips) 
because of all of the negative press from the computer geek press about Bulldozer. Oh, I feel sorry for all of the uninformed people who buy a chip that wasn't good enough to be a Bulldozer but thought they were getting a Phenom II.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Quote:
I am still using a $12.95 Microsoft keyboard that is 12 years old. Just about every key has been worn down. I had to laugh when I bought the thing at CompUSA, the clerk asked if I wanted an extended warranty for $19.95. I said, "If the keyboard breaks, I'll just buy another one".|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Comment on keyboards. I had to replace two previous keyboards because they would not accept multiple keypresses that I normally use in CoH (jumping+forward+turning). Unfortunately, this is not something you can predict. It has to do with the internal wiring of the keyboard. You can avoid it by going with a keyboard specifically designed for gaming or by trial and error (which I did, since basic keyboards are cheap).
I think the linked keyboard is the same model I'm currently typing on. It's dirt cheap but has very nice action. I used it with my previous build and am still using it. I like it so much, I have a spare sitting in the closet for when this one wears out. |
If there is anything I have discovered about Keyboards, the cheaper they are, the harder they are to destroy. Heh, my sister has my previous keyboard and its 18 years old now....
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Problem with CPU design is it's a several year process where you don't know if your design decisions were right until the first silicon is produced. If you guess wrong with the designs, you may be stuck with it for years (see Pentium 4).
That said the original Phenom hardware pretty much stunk when it came out, even ignoring the L3 cache problem. However the Phenom II ended up as a pretty good CPU. Perhaps the next version of the Bulldozer will fix some of the design problems and it will end up being decent part.
AMD is already selling the Athlon II X4 631 and 651 which are a GPU disabled (or broken) versions of their A8-xxxx Socket F1 parts.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
I my self have been building Comps. pro from way back in the 286 days. Listen to this man he knows what he is talking about.|
Originally Posted by Demon Forge
Spoken like a true intel fanboy. I've been building systems for years, and never had any kind of issues whatsoever running AMD processors. I've used both, in my own systems and customers systems, and for general gaming and all around use, there is virtually no difference. If I was doing serious multitasking, or video decoding, or something that is processor intensive, I would recommend an intel processor, but for CoH, and any other MMO around, as well as 99% of other games out, anything more than a solid AMD quad core is just overkill.
I recommended the 4 core over the 6 core purely because of clock speed, and the fact that unless you are doing some serious multitasking, you arent going to see a performance increase with a lower clock 6 core. The power supply(which is a Corsair Builder Series) is 80+ certified, with the system components running at 422 watts (at max, which would very rarely happen) would be perfectly fine to run these components. If you were planning on adding a second video card or something down the road, get a bigger PSU. The motherboard is a cheap one, but I've used ASrock in several systems and have had no issues. Your personal experiences may vary. Mine have been good. As for the case, you could go with a full size atx case and have more room to work with and hide cables, but you'd probably be surprised how much bigger it is than your average oem computer. This case has very good reviews, and will work with the card I've listed, I've used the combination before. You could spend a little extra money and get a WD caviar, or maybe a SeaGate Barracuda hard drive, but all in all it wont make much of a performance difference. We aren't talking about a high end gaming rig here, which is what you guys seem to be recommending. CoH is near the very bottom of the spectrum when it comes to graphics load. I play CoH on an AMD 4450e system with a 9800gtx, and can run in ultra on 1440x900 with no issues whatsoever. If you don't mind spending an extra 200 bucks on the system for what amounts to brand name preference, by all means, go with Intel. It is faster, and because it is, will probably last a year or 2 longer. But realize that the hardware is WAY ahead of the software right now, and this has been the issue for a couple of years. Having an I7 or i5 is great, but there really isnt much out there that requires the performance increase that they have over AMD processors. |
I run an Intel system and a buddy runs an AMD system, pretty much same system just different makers and they as far as gaming (depending on how the game is optimized) are just that the same.
I personally build what I call 10 year computers. They cost me around $1500 and will last with minimal upgrade about 10 years before they need replaced due to hardware and game restraints. Just built mine last year with a intel i7, Gigabite MB, 6 gb of ram, TB HD, and Gigabite Nvidia 570, Thermaltake Case and Power Supply. I got it all other than the Video Card in Newegg combos, Video was from NE just not in a combo. I love my comp and have not even come close to not being able to run any game anything but full tilt.
When you look for a case go for a water system or if going to stick to fans get the big 100mm+ I have 4 on mine and omg they are quite and everything is so cool its stupid. Even over clocked like I am the heat was only a deg or 2 increase.
I just have to mention this my buddies system is the AMD equivalent and was cheaper. All but the case, HAHAH for some reason he decided that he wanted this $600 all Aluminum case. He got it on sale for $350 and all I can say is I am glad I went with my $50 Thermaltake, much lighter, and quieter. Yes his is cool in the fact that it actully has room for 2 computers (a reg and a mini) but OMG the price and sorry, but the thing is just ugly. Its all a fin design, like that is going to help the cooling lol.
But in the end don't listen to any of us, do the research and get the system that will most fit your needs. Do the work and you will be happier with what you have in the end. Good luck and happy building.
Broomhilda BS/Regen/BM Scrapper, Fiddle Faddle Shield/ElecM/BM Tank,
And many others..
Dev's With all the Great new content, Please!! dont forget to fix the bugs with the old content. There is a storm a brewing because they are not getting fixed. If its a problem that no one is reporting them? Well Maybe you need to look at your tech support then..
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demon Forge
This DIY combo might save ya some money: has pretty much the same components.(you would still need to buy the missing pieces obviously), but seems like you can save about 45 bucks buying this stuff together:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboB...t=Combo.755265 |
Would wind up saving him about $80 if he didn't need to piece and part the system together.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Id like to say thank you to everyone who gave me advice, this is just what I was looking for. Special thanks to Hyperstrike because that spec is pretty much what I was looking for. Im going to grab the hardrive first as many people have told me prices are going up because of the shortages. I can start buying pieces next paycheck.
Ill need some help when its time to get the OS installed ( never done that ). I think I can pretty much figure out how to put most of the pieces together myself since I have already replaced Ram, Hard Drives, and Video Cards and I am a pretty intuitive guy. What sucks is that I tossed out an old worktable a few weeks ago that would have been perfect to work on but I can work on my Computer desk.
I have plenty of small screwdrivers. Any other little tools I might need ??
Again Thanks much !!
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
Sorry, but I have my own years and years (and year and years...crap, now I feel OLD!) of experience. This experience pretty much |
Originally Posted by Broomhilda
I my self have been building Comps. pro from way back in the 286 days. Listen to this man he knows what he is talking about.
|
Quote:
| I run an Intel system and a buddy runs an AMD system, pretty much same system just different makers and they as far as gaming (depending on how the game is optimized) are just that the same. |
Moreover, for CoH, on a clock-for-clock basis, the performance difference between AMD and Intel is more than simply fractional percentage points.
Quote:
| I personally build what I call 10 year computers. They cost me around $1500 and will last with minimal upgrade about 10 years before they need replaced due to hardware and game restraints. Just built mine last year with a intel i7, Gigabite MB, 6 gb of ram, TB HD, and Gigabite Nvidia 570, Thermaltake Case and Power Supply. I got it all other than the Video Card in Newegg combos, Video was from NE just not in a combo. I love my comp and have not even come close to not being able to run any game anything but full tilt. |
Quote:
| When you look for a case go for a water system or if going to stick to fans get the big 100mm+ I have 4 on mine and omg they are quite and everything is so cool its stupid. Even over clocked like I am the heat was only a deg or 2 increase. |
Quote:
| I just have to mention this my buddies system is the AMD equivalent and was cheaper. All but the case, HAHAH for some reason he decided that he wanted this $600 all Aluminum case. He got it on sale for $350 and all I can say is I am glad I went with my $50 Thermaltake, much lighter, and quieter. Yes his is cool in the fact that it actully has room for 2 computers (a reg and a mini) but OMG the price and sorry, but the thing is just ugly. Its all a fin design, like that is going to help the cooling lol. |
Quote:
| But in the end don't listen to any of us, do the research and get the system that will most fit your needs. Do the work and you will be happier with what you have in the end. Good luck and happy building. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Windows 7 is one of the easiest windows installs I have ever done.
Its just a few mouse clicks.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
Id like to say thank you to everyone who gave me advice, this is just what I was looking for. Special thanks to Hyperstrike because that spec is pretty much what I was looking for. Im going to grab the hardrive first as many people have told me prices are going up because of the shortages. I can start buying pieces next paycheck.
Ill need some help when its time to get the OS installed ( never done that ). I think I can pretty much figure out how to put most of the pieces together myself since I have already replaced Ram, Hard Drives, and Video Cards and I am a pretty intuitive guy. What sucks is that I tossed out an old worktable a few weeks ago that would have been perfect to work on but I can work on my Computer desk. I have plenty of small screwdrivers. Any other little tools I might need ?? Again Thanks much !! |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Quote:
They would have to do some really good engineering tweaks to get more out of the bulldozer. It took them 14 months from Phenom to Phenom II and they got the benefit of going from 65nm to 45nm. Phenom II was popular because it was able to deliver decent performance cheaply. It compared well to the s775 Celerons and value E chips. Once the Sandy Bridge based "value" CPUs came out Phenom II is a much tougher sell.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Problem with CPU design is it's a several year process where you don't know if your design decisions were right until the first silicon is produced. If you guess wrong with the designs, you may be stuck with it for years (see Pentium 4).
That said the original Phenom hardware pretty much stunk when it came out, even ignoring the L3 cache problem. However the Phenom II ended up as a pretty good CPU. Perhaps the next version of the Bulldozer will fix some of the design problems and it will end up being decent part. AMD is already selling the Athlon II X4 631 and 651 which are a GPU disabled (or broken) versions of their A8-xxxx Socket F1 parts. |
I still think the x6 Phenom IIs are the best chips from AMD. I hope they can work their magic with Piledriver and Trinity.
(I knew about the 631, its the cheap AMD overclocker since it isn't held back by the GPU on die and uses the proven K10 core on 32nm)
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Forgot that everyone didn't know that the CPU portion of the A8 is a tweaked Athlon II quad core.
Well off the bat they could "fix" the L1 Instruction cache in each module so it's not a 1-way set associated per core. Then get someone to look at the L3 cache because it has worse latency than the Phenom II and twice the latency of Intel's Sandy Bridge. The problem with going with a deep pipeline, as Intel learned with the Pentium 4, is that general performance is affected greatly by the performance of the memory subsystem.
But that's me armchair quarterbacking.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
Ill need some help when its time to get the OS installed ( never done that )
|
Hardest thing about installing Windows 7:
Typing in the full license key.
Everything else is really "Hit next." "Type in your name." "Go get some coffee while we finish this up."
Just chipping in on the AMD-versus-Intel part of this little discussion...
A computer magazine I was reading had an article reviewing the latest-and-greatest CPUs from both vendors, and comparing them to a few of their older offerings. The article's author made the comment that Intel is already starting to reduce the "bang-for-the-buck" factor on their newer chips, precisely because AMD can't compete with them at the high end. AMD's Bulldozer chips are a disappointment, and Intel's latest i7 has cores that were deliberately disabled at the factory, apparently for no good reason other than Intel doesn't feel threatened enough by AMD to enable them. (It also uses quad-channel memory, which the author points out is of little value to most desktop apps and games that don't even push the limits of dual- or tri-channel memory.) The author went on to state that the i5-2500K is still the best overall value in CPUs today.
Food for thought...
TargetOne
"If you two don't work this out RIGHT NOW, I'm turning this invasion around and going home!" - Emperor Cole
Quote:
And it's a relatively quick install in my experience. Seems much quicker than XP during the install process.|
Originally Posted by Model 75
Hardest thing about installing Windows 7:
Typing in the full license key. Everything else is really "Hit next." "Type in your name." "Go get some coffee while we finish this up." |
Of course, if you are installing it from a USB flash drive it seems even faster. Most of my installs of late have been from a flash drive.
Well, unless I'm imaging several computers at once while at work, but that's another story.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
The only thing I cant decide on now is the case. I was very sure about that but you know how it is you look around a bit and you see a few things that catch your eye.
The Antec 900 that Hyperstrike recommended seems to be a winner everywhere.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129021
There is also the V3 version
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129097
I also looked at the NXZT Phantom 410. That just has sex appeal honestly.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811146087
Also looking at the Cooler Master Storm Sniper. This interests me as well
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119194
And last but not least there is this one but I think I would go with the Antec over this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119240
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
Rule #1: Make sure the case fits your needs.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
The only thing I cant decide on now is the case.
|
Rule #2: Make sure the case fits your budget.
Rule #3: If you have satisfied #1, and think you can flex around #2, buy whatever the hell you want.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Oh one last question. How big of an SSD do I need if I am putting most likely WIndows 7, CoH and SwTor on it ?
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Other than the aesthetic appeal, there are only a few things you really need to pay attention to when you buy a case. I'm assuming you're looking at cases on Newegg or Tiger Direct, you can learn a lot about problems you might face with a cases' overall craftsmanship from reading the customer reviews.
Other than that, check to see if it's a top or bottom PSU mounting case, while it's not always an issue, it really sucks to get your machine together and find out you need to buy an extender because a power supply cable is a little too short because that awesome new case you just bought mounted the PSU on the bottom instead of the more traditional top mount. Don't let this scare you away from getting a case with a bottom PSU mount, just research to be sure your PSU has long enough cables if you get one.
Make sure the case has as many USB and Audio ports on the front as you want, having to move the computer to plug your mp3 player, or cell phone, or whatever you want to attach, is sometimes a pain. This is a case you're planning to have a few years, so if you're kind of on the fence between 2 cases based on the number of USB slots, go for the one with more.
Make sure the case is big enough for your video card. This is sometimes easier said than done, it's hard to judge how much clearance you're going to have just by the pictures and dimensions given on a website, though in MOST cases, with a mid or full sized tower, you should be able to fit almost any video card you like.
Get a case with at least a couple of 120mm fans in it. While your system shouldn't run hot(based on the parts that Hyper suggested), unless you decide to start overclocking, its always best to have a little bit more than you actually need, hot components don't last nearly as long, or perform as well.
Personally, I try to stay away from toolless cases. In my experience with toolless cases ,the efforts to make them faster and easier to build usually accomplish the opposite, and even if they work perfectly, would save you a maximum of 15 minutes on building a system,(and that's a very conservative time,in most cases you could mount and dismount 3 hard drives in about a third of that time).
There are literally thousands of cases to choose from, so take your time and look at a lot of them. There are also a couple of other sites other than Newegg that have some great deals on cases. Geeks.com and tigerdirect.com usually have some good deals, and while they aren't always lower than newegg, you can sometimes catch the particular component you're looking for on sale from one of these other sites.
A 60 or 120g ssd should give you plenty of space for anything you want to do, and some are pretty cheap right now. Make sure you spend some time researching the brands/models you are looking at, some have been known to die or slow down significantly very quickly
Quote:
Yes the hex core Sandy Bridge E CPUs are actually octo cores with 20MB of L3 cache (with the hex core having only 12.5-15MB of L3). The reasons behind that decision that have been bandied about includes no need to compete; low 8 core yields; and exceeding targeted power and/or heat limits. AnandTech has a review of the true 4 core version with 10MB of L3 cache, i7-3820, and only found it slightly faster than the i7-2600K, in line with the difference in base clock speed.|
Originally Posted by TargetOne
Just chipping in on the AMD-versus-Intel part of this little discussion...
A computer magazine I was reading had an article reviewing the latest-and-greatest CPUs from both vendors, and comparing them to a few of their older offerings. The article's author made the comment that Intel is already starting to reduce the "bang-for-the-buck" factor on their newer chips, precisely because AMD can't compete with them at the high end. AMD's Bulldozer chips are a disappointment, and Intel's latest i7 has cores that were deliberately disabled at the factory, apparently for no good reason other than Intel doesn't feel threatened enough by AMD to enable them. (It also uses quad-channel memory, which the author points out is of little value to most desktop apps and games that don't even push the limits of dual- or tri-channel memory.) The author went on to state that the i5-2500K is still the best overall value in CPUs today. Food for thought... |
Tom's Hardware have been saying since Sandy Bridge's introduction that for gaming, that any CPU priced beyond the i5-2500K is a waste of money but that doesn't stop gamers with deep pockets though.
Oh, and last nail in the AMD Vs Intel debate.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
I'm reminded of russian "quota" nails.
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Oh, and last nail in the AMD Vs Intel debate.
|
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Im going with the I5 Sandy Bridge... thats a no brainer to me and I dont even know half of what you guys know.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
Good! Because if you knew even half of what we know we'd have to send out strike teams to take you out.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
Im going with the I5 Sandy Bridge... thats a no brainer to me and I dont even know half of what you guys know.
|
For your own good of course...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Looks at Hyperstrike, shakes head and just walks away from self important child.
Broomhilda BS/Regen/BM Scrapper, Fiddle Faddle Shield/ElecM/BM Tank,
And many others..
Dev's With all the Great new content, Please!! dont forget to fix the bugs with the old content. There is a storm a brewing because they are not getting fixed. If its a problem that no one is reporting them? Well Maybe you need to look at your tech support then..
Quote:
As I'm unsure of which post you're actually responding to, it makes it difficult to know if you're replying to my reply to you from a day or two ago or my last post (which was blatantly obvious dark humor).|
Originally Posted by Broomhilda
Looks at Hyperstrike, shakes head and just walks away from self important child.
|
But thanks for devolving into name-calling. It's essentially the same thing as saying "Sorry! If I had been any more wrong I'd have imploded into a singularity of wrongness."
It's always gratifying to see stuff like that.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
This DIY combo might save ya some money: has pretty much the same components.(you would still need to buy the missing pieces obviously), but seems like you can save about 45 bucks buying this stuff together:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboB...t=Combo.755265