Incandescence Core Epiphany, when is it getting nerfed?
By
BattleWraith,
Posted on: 2011-12-04 08:29 in Everything about PvP
when CS from KM gets nerfed.
(ie, never).
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well everyone is NOW....brb getting ICE
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Originally Posted by WhyNerfPFF
Incandescence Core Epiphany needs Nerfing... it has a 14.9 sec stun in PvP. Everyone is exploiting this power in PvP. Please fix it. You can check under description and PvP effects under Detailed info.
You can check the zone on freedom, major exploit of this power |
PM Avatea or Zwillinger the actual details of what's happening.
It doesn't need nerfing, it just needs a PvP flag... it has none.
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That!
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
It doesn't need nerfing, it just needs a PvP flag... it has none.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
You have to admit its a fun way to deal with MM huddles though.
If they haven't nerfed Stalagmites by now, it's probably not getting nerfed.
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Considering less than a month ago they adjusted/fixed the duration on Poison's hold controllers, its more than possible it could be fixed.|
Originally Posted by Rikti
If they haven't nerfed Stalagmites by now, it's probably not getting nerfed.
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Stalagmites (for dominators only) for some reason gets a 1.96 extra base duration but it isn't the longest control duration out there. Total Domination, Mass Confuse, and Terrify all operate on 7.45 second base durations for Mind Controllers only. Interestingly enough, seismic smash *and* fissure from Earth assault also has a 5.96 base duration tied to it. So I don't know if stalagmites is really a bug in that sense, its more that just stuns are less commonly resisted without a support AT keeping two CM's on someone, and when a dominator is in domination its mezzes are supposed to be unresisted.
The stun is a problem, but it also breaks hibernate if used next to someone who is hibernated... may work on phase too, but I do know that it will break Hibernate 100% of the time, and will stun the person after it's broken. I can't imagine that's an intended function, and I would consider that a bug more so then the long stun. It's a pain in the *** if you are on a tough/ice build, for instance.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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Geez why am I just finding out about all this. My Mind/Storm could be pretty awesome with a 7.45 second hold + Lightning Storm...
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Considering less than a month ago they adjusted/fixed the duration on Poison's hold controllers, its more than possible it could be fixed.
Stalagmites (for dominators only) for some reason gets a 1.96 extra base duration but it isn't the longest control duration out there. Total Domination, Mass Confuse, and Terrify all operate on 7.45 second base durations for Mind Controllers only. Interestingly enough, seismic smash *and* fissure from Earth assault also has a 5.96 base duration tied to it. So I don't know if stalagmites is really a bug in that sense, its more that just stuns are less commonly resisted without a support AT keeping two CM's on someone, and when a dominator is in domination its mezzes are supposed to be unresisted. |
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The Dominator is strangely getting a bonus when striking from Stealth.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Considering less than a month ago they adjusted/fixed the duration on Poison's hold controllers, its more than possible it could be fixed.
Stalagmites (for dominators only) for some reason gets a 1.96 extra base duration but it isn't the longest control duration out there. |
Dom Stag v. Controller Stag
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This game has PvP?
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It is actually WORSE than just the long stun, or the fact it breaks hibernate (interestingly, I heard it didnt break hiber for an ice tank).
The power also has teh -resistance to healing. ie, you get higher healing values when a heal power is applied to you. In fact, the value in the T4 is so high..that it completely REMOVES heal decay. Thats right..one of the main 'features' of zone pvp balance (according to the devs, not saying I like it). You can pop it on an emp, and happily go around healing yourself for 500 every 3 seconds. I have heard of pvp emps, with 2 attacks, winning duels against fire blasters and earth/fire doms..simply because they couldnt do enough damage.
Somehow, I really doubt the power was intended to totally invalidate a core pvp mechanic.
The devs make changes to new powers in PVP. So if anyone wants this to be changed just PM Avatea or Zwillinger. They're much more likely to change it if it's new than if it's been around for a while.
It helps if you compare the power to other similar powers and show how it's out of whack.
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Considering the core PvP mechanic completely invalidated what made support AT's good for several years before it was implemented, you don't really have that strong of a case.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
It is actually WORSE than just the long stun, or the fact it breaks hibernate (interestingly, I heard it didnt break hiber for an ice tank).
The power also has teh -resistance to healing. ie, you get higher healing values when a heal power is applied to you. In fact, the value in the T4 is so high..that it completely REMOVES heal decay. Thats right..one of the main 'features' of zone pvp balance (according to the devs, not saying I like it). You can pop it on an emp, and happily go around healing yourself for 500 every 3 seconds. I have heard of pvp emps, with 2 attacks, winning duels against fire blasters and earth/fire doms..simply because they couldnt do enough damage. Somehow, I really doubt the power was intended to totally invalidate a core pvp mechanic. |
Additionally, every blaster/dom out there has a 800-1000 point heal that follows up with a massive regen spike. Countless melee types run around with a MoG style power, that at its peak makes them all but invulnerable and in its down time still provides a buff that boosts their survivablity. I have to laugh at someone crying out for a nerf to support toons in zone, after they were already pretty much made obsolete for the past few years.
Heaven forbid we move back to a direction where facing at team with support might mean needing to do more than just randomly damage spam a target a little longer until they die or phase.
The only things broken with this power is the stun not flagged for PvP and the fact that it can break hibernate.
Support oriented "support toons" like team based empaths probably shouldn't win duels with fire blasters, yeah. But you know, it's really hard to use the term "support toon" on a lot of Defenders since their debuffs are by far the more overpowering aspect in PvE and PvP, and debuffs are ca-raaazzzyyy in 1v1s. Yeah an Empath, even if they are totally built for 1v1s, probably shouldn't be winning 1v1s based on the nature and intended use of the set. But y'know what, I don't think Stalkers were meant to be shark blasters when they were invented either, so whatevs. If the Emp wants to be a beast, you just gotta complain about it and make no attempt to use powers like benumb on them, because that might actually work and THEN WHERE WOULD WE BE?
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lol, I LOVE you pvp trolls. So upset about the changes to pvp that you guys did not agree with, that you feel you have the moral high ground in any discussion. Please, direct me to the part in my post, where I somehow claimed that the destiny stopped heal decay somehow totally makes the pvp changes ok. Because I am pretty sure I didnt say anything of the sort. In face, I specifically said..'I dont agree with all the pvp changes.'|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Considering the core PvP mechanic completely invalidated what made support AT's good for several years before it was implemented, you don't really have that strong of a case.
Additionally, every blaster/dom out there has a 800-1000 point heal that follows up with a massive regen spike. Countless melee types run around with a MoG style power, that at its peak makes them all but invulnerable and in its down time still provides a buff that boosts their survivablity. I have to laugh at someone crying out for a nerf to support toons in zone, after they were already pretty much made obsolete for the past few years. Heaven forbid we move back to a direction where facing at team with support might mean needing to do more than just randomly damage spam a target a little longer until they die or phase. The only things broken with this power is the stun not flagged for PvP and the fact that it can break hibernate. |
Claiming that the destiny breaks a core pvp mechanic, in the CURRENT pvp (not your lil wet dream i13 pvp where you could kite like a bunny on crack)...needs no case at all. Because, it doesnt require a case to be made. The way it removes heal decay DOES break the heal decay mechanic. Please, tell me how it doesnt?
Oh and don't bother saying that me can remove heal decay in teh zones..so somehow it isnt broken. In zones, where we are meant to have heal decay..the destiny can remove it, totally. But yeah, it isnt broken at all. Not.
Also love your comment about every dom or blaster having a 800 point heal. Please, show me where these powers are in those AT sets? Clearly you mean rebirth incarnates, which are a staple in pvp. Yet, this has nothing at all to do with the fact the destiny is broken.
Saying the power is busted and wanting it balance is hardly crying for a nerf to all support toons either. I simply made the example of the emp besting a fire blaster to illustrate my point..thats its broken! It is just as broken on a regen scrapper with rebirth and a tray of greens as it is on an emp with healing aura every 3 seconds.
I find it amusing you mention the hiber bit being broken...maybe you need to use YOUR 800 point heal at a smarter time..so you dont need hiber?
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You are *whining* about support class and toons with a self heal being able to use it more often, while still having the huge amount of TS that comes with spamming your aura. What incandescence does is removes the massive cruch that is heal decay, a mechanic put into place so bad / unorganized players could hope to get kills in zones.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
lol, I LOVE you pvp trolls. So upset about the changes to pvp that you guys did not agree with, that you feel you have the moral high ground in any discussion. Please, direct me to the part in my post, where I somehow claimed that the destiny stopped heal decay somehow totally makes the pvp changes ok. Because I am pretty sure I didnt say anything of the sort. In face, I specifically said..'I dont agree with all the pvp changes.
Claiming that the destiny breaks a core pvp mechanic, in the CURRENT pvp (not your lil wet dream i13 pvp where you could kite like a bunny on crack)...needs no case at all. Because, it doesnt require a case to be made. The way it removes heal decay DOES break the heal decay mechanic. Please, tell me how it doesnt? |
If you could manage to control yourself from foaming out the mouth the second someone mentions "i13" you'll noticed I only mentioned it out of the irony that comes from the statement "Totally invalidates a core pvp mechanic" Because that is exactly what heal decay did. So now the dev's put something in that invalidates what had invalidated something else a few years earlier, you are the one crying this time around.
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Oh and don't bother saying that me can remove heal decay in teh zones..so somehow it isnt broken. In zones, where we are meant to have heal decay..the destiny can remove it, totally. But yeah, it isnt broken at all. Not. |
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| Also love your comment about every dom or blaster having a 800 point heal. Please, show me where these powers are in those AT sets? Clearly you mean rebirth incarnates, which are a staple in pvp. Yet, this has nothing at all to do with the fact the destiny is broken. |
"Please show me where these powers are in those AT sets" we are talking about incarnates and how they have influenced PvP. You go so far as to call rebirth incarnates a staple in PvP, yet ignore the way they have reshaped playing a Dom or Blaster. In one breath you can say "Its okay if a character with no self heal gets a 1000 point heal and massive regen bonus) and in another say "But characters with a self heal shouldn't be allowed to use it at full strength all the time."
In the future, please stop a moment and think out your statements before talking circles around yourself.
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Saying the power is busted and wanting it balance is hardly crying for a nerf to all support toons either. I simply made the example of the emp besting a fire blaster to illustrate my point..thats its broken! It is just as broken on a regen scrapper with rebirth and a tray of greens as it is on an emp with healing aura every 3 seconds. I find it amusing you mention the hiber bit being broken...maybe you need to use YOUR 800 point heal at a smarter time..so you dont need hiber? |
You aren't crying for a nerf, really?
Let me help you out here, if something were "Busted" or broken you would say "While hibernated, a player is flagged as *Only affecting self* yet, Incandescence ignores this flag and stuns you anway." Is it intended? A bug, or the WAI now? We don't know, but it would appear to be a bug given the way "Only affecting self" powers have acted in the past.
"OMG ITS TOO GOOD EMPS ARE BEATING EARTH FIRES NOW WITH ONLY 2 ATTACKS" Your argument/statement is a nerf cry.
To finish things off, your personal attack about "using the 800 point heal at a smarter time" so hibes don't get broken doesn't really apply here as a majority of my characters run phase shift and don't have to worry about that. It was definitely the strong finish I hoped for after what was a very well thought out post.
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I am going to try speak really slowly, since you clearly do not understand what I am trying to say. |
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
You are *whining* about support class and toons with a self heal being able to use it more often, while still having the huge amount of TS that comes with spamming your aura. What incandescence does is removes the massive cruch that is heal decay, a mechanic put into place so bad / unorganized players could hope to get kills in zones.
If you could manage to control yourself from foaming out the mouth the second someone mentions "i13" you'll noticed I only mentioned it out of the irony that comes from the statement "Totally invalidates a core pvp mechanic" Because that is exactly what heal decay did. So now the dev's put something in that invalidates what had invalidated something else a few years earlier, you are the one crying this time around. Please tell me who you are that you can safely say what we are and are not meant to do? Seriously now. For years a (much larger) community got by just fine without heal decay. In arena pvp teams still get by just fine without it as well. So what are you basing your opinion on, that this incarnate power breaks pvp? This is why I pointed out what other destiny powers can do, yet you were all to quick to dismiss them because one can only guess you got beat a few times by a new power and decided to come on the boards and whine about it. Re read your post, because that is exactly what it comes off like, you had your crutch kicked out from under you and now you are upset. Its statements like this that probably cause me to pass a condescending tone towards people. "Please show me where these powers are in those AT sets" we are talking about incarnates and how they have influenced PvP. You go so far as to call rebirth incarnates a staple in PvP, yet ignore the way they have reshaped playing a Dom or Blaster. In one breath you can say "Its okay if a character with no self heal gets a 1000 point heal and massive regen bonus) and in another say "But characters with a self heal shouldn't be allowed to use it at full strength all the time." In the future, please stop a moment and think out your statements before talking circles around yourself. Glad to see you ended on a strong note, really I am. You aren't crying for a nerf, really? Let me help you out here, if something were "Busted" or broken you would say "While hibernated, a player is flagged as *Only affecting self* yet, Incandescence ignores this flag and stuns you anway." Is it intended? A bug, or the WAI now? We don't know, but it would appear to be a bug given the way "Only affecting self" powers have acted in the past. "OMG ITS TOO GOOD EMPS ARE BEATING EARTH FIRES NOW WITH ONLY 2 ATTACKS" Your argument/statement is a nerf cry. To finish things off, your personal attack about "using the 800 point heal at a smarter time" so hibes don't get broken doesn't really apply here as a majority of my characters run phase shift and don't have to worry about that. It was definitely the strong finish I hoped for after what was a very well thought out post. |
My argument is that being able to remove heal decay is broken. Nothing on either side of the 'is heal decay good/bad' argument. Also, I never mentioned travel suppression, but well done for bringing it up, and making it sound like I was relating the issue to TS..when I didnt. TS has NOTHING to do with being able to bypass heal decay..nothing! If you think it does, I suggest some more time pvping (again, just to clarify, since you seem to love twisting my words, I am NOT saying spamming a heal wouldnt cause TS, I know it would..but thats an entirely different point).
And there is your high horse argument about i13 pvp again. Just in case you didnt notice, i13 pvp HAPPENED. It realllly truly ruly did! So your argument that my statement about no heal decay being not broken..doesnt work, you know why? Because in the current pvp..we HAVE heal decay. Stop living in your dream i13 world, please. Making the point that something is not broken, because the very thing it breaks was added (for right or wrong) to pvp EIGHT full issues ago? Way to cling to the past. Does that mean you wont be using your rebirth anymore either, because we sure didnt have that in i13...opps, theres another thing thats broken! Better let everyone else know.
You reaaally need to read what people actually say. Yes, I called rebirth a pvp stable..because IT IS! Do I anywhere mention agreeing, or not, with the fact it is?? I can just accept teh fact it is a staple, and move on. You know why? Because it has zero to do with the point I was making..about the destiny being broken. Or what, you think that since people have rebirth, that means another, unrelated power, doing something that previously was NOT possible, is suddenly fine?
Another thing, I already said this, but maybe just maybe..you will get it. I used the emp beating the fire blaster as..(wait for it, brace yourself, get a dictionary) an EXAMPLE. I never said..nerf the power because an emp can beat a blaster. I said FIX the clearly broken power. A fix..you know? Not a nerf.
In regard to a strong finish..I dont think I actually needed one..since all you are doing is relating something NOW, to i13 pvp, and how because you think it is not broken..there is NO way it actually could be. Ok, opinions are fine..mine is, that it is broken. Totally ok that you dont agree..but could you try to find a better argument than 'no heal decay is fine, just cause there was none in i13.'
Oh and a phasenub huh? I just KNOW your own of the people who stacks different phase types..because I guess to you that isnt a bug either. Obviously since you could do it in i13, its all good!
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People have been dueling with Emp Controllers for years prior to the implementation of i13 and were able to find success. It requires a more patient level of play, but it is certainly possible and not gamebreaking in any way, as there are viable counters.|
Originally Posted by NecroOmNomNomicon
Support oriented "support toons" like team based empaths probably shouldn't win duels with fire blasters, yeah. But you know, it's really hard to use the term "support toon" on a lot of Defenders since their debuffs are by far the more overpowering aspect in PvE and PvP, and debuffs are ca-raaazzzyyy in 1v1s. Yeah an Empath, even if they are totally built for 1v1s, probably shouldn't be winning 1v1s based on the nature and intended use of the set. But y'know what, I don't think Stalkers were meant to be shark blasters when they were invented either, so whatevs. If the Emp wants to be a beast, you just gotta complain about it and make no attempt to use powers like benumb on them, because that might actually work and THEN WHERE WOULD WE BE?
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Also, anyone counting "duels" (not saying you are, specifically) in zones is outside of their mind.
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In order to do this, you would need to be on a voice-chat server. We would be more than happy to give you our Mumble information so that you can log on and speak to us in a Southern drawl so that we may better understand exactly what it is that you are trying to say.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
I am going to try speak really slowly, since you clearly do not understand what I am trying to say.
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Originally Posted by MisterD
My argument is that being able to remove heal decay is broken. Nothing on either side of the 'is heal decay good/bad' argument. Also, I never mentioned travel suppression, but well done for bringing it up, and making it sound like I was relating the issue to TS..when I didnt. TS has NOTHING to do with being able to bypass heal decay..nothing! If you think it does, I suggest some more time pvping (again, just to clarify, since you seem to love twisting my words, I am NOT saying spamming a heal wouldnt cause TS, I know it would..but thats an entirely different point).
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Here:
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Thats right..one of the main 'features' of zone pvp balance (according to the devs, not saying I like it).
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Here:
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Originally Posted by MisterD
It is actually WORSE than just the long stun, or the fact it breaks hibernate (interestingly, I heard it didnt break hiber for an ice tank).
The power also has teh -resistance to healing. ie, you get higher healing values when a heal power is applied to you |
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Originally Posted by MisterD
And there is your high horse argument about i13 pvp again. Just in case you didnt notice, i13 pvp HAPPENED. It realllly truly ruly did!
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Originally Posted by MisterD
So your argument that my statement about no heal decay being not broken..doesnt work, you know why? Because in the current pvp..we HAVE heal decay.
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Well, the devs gave us a power that reverted Heal Decay temporarily. So your arguement is also invalid. You know why? Because WE HAVE INCANDESCENCE.
Do you see how faulty that is?
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Stop living in your dream i13 world, please. Making the point that something is not broken, because the very thing it breaks was added (for right or wrong) to pvp EIGHT full issues ago?
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Way to cling to the past. Does that mean you wont be using your rebirth anymore either, because we sure didnt have that in i13...opps, theres another thing thats broken! Better let everyone else know.
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Focus on building a better arguement about the topic, and less on attacking the poster for holding a certain view about the current state of the PvP system.
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Another thing, I already said this, but maybe just maybe..you will get it. I used the emp beating the fire blaster as..(wait for it, brace yourself, get a dictionary) an EXAMPLE. I never said..nerf the power because an emp can beat a blaster. I said FIX the clearly broken power. A fix..you know? Not a nerf.
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Originally Posted by MisterD
In regard to a strong finish..I dont think I actually needed one..
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Originally Posted by MisterD
but could you try to find a better argument than 'no heal decay is fine, just cause there was none in i13.'
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Oh and a phasenub huh? I just KNOW your own of the people who stacks different phase types..because I guess to you that isnt a bug either. Obviously since you could do it in i13, its all good!
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i'm with lib mostly.
you may cry about this incarnate all you like, D, but the fact is that it makes zone pvp a hell of a lot more fun / like it was before i13. i'll happily take the hiber-breaks over HD.
i'll go as far as to say that if you take incandescence, you don't need hiber/phase in zone. and i don't know if you remember correctly, but... the game was once like that. and it was better. oh yeah and:
OMG DOMS WITHOUT ICE MASTERY/MAKO?!?!?! THE HORROR!
that incarnate is as close to a pvp fix as we're going to get, and most of you idiots are far too concerned with your little hiber to notice that as long as it keeps working as it does (hopefully as intended), there's a bit more hope of this game.
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Just shut up.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
I am going to try speak really slowly, since you clearly do not understand what I am trying to say.
My argument is that being able to remove heal decay is broken. Nothing on either side of the 'is heal decay good/bad' argument. Also, I never mentioned travel suppression, but well done for bringing it up, and making it sound like I was relating the issue to TS..when I didnt. TS has NOTHING to do with being able to bypass heal decay..nothing! If you think it does, I suggest some more time pvping (again, just to clarify, since you seem to love twisting my words, I am NOT saying spamming a heal wouldnt cause TS, I know it would..but thats an entirely different point). And there is your high horse argument about i13 pvp again. Just in case you didnt notice, i13 pvp HAPPENED. It realllly truly ruly did! So your argument that my statement about no heal decay being not broken..doesnt work, you know why? Because in the current pvp..we HAVE heal decay. Stop living in your dream i13 world, please. Making the point that something is not broken, because the very thing it breaks was added (for right or wrong) to pvp EIGHT full issues ago? Way to cling to the past. Does that mean you wont be using your rebirth anymore either, because we sure didnt have that in i13...opps, theres another thing thats broken! Better let everyone else know. You reaaally need to read what people actually say. Yes, I called rebirth a pvp stable..because IT IS! Do I anywhere mention agreeing, or not, with the fact it is?? I can just accept teh fact it is a staple, and move on. You know why? Because it has zero to do with the point I was making..about the destiny being broken. Or what, you think that since people have rebirth, that means another, unrelated power, doing something that previously was NOT possible, is suddenly fine? Another thing, I already said this, but maybe just maybe..you will get it. I used the emp beating the fire blaster as..(wait for it, brace yourself, get a dictionary) an EXAMPLE. I never said..nerf the power because an emp can beat a blaster. I said FIX the clearly broken power. A fix..you know? Not a nerf. In regard to a strong finish..I dont think I actually needed one..since all you are doing is relating something NOW, to i13 pvp, and how because you think it is not broken..there is NO way it actually could be. Ok, opinions are fine..mine is, that it is broken. Totally ok that you dont agree..but could you try to find a better argument than 'no heal decay is fine, just cause there was none in i13.' Oh and a phasenub huh? I just KNOW your own of the people who stacks different phase types..because I guess to you that isnt a bug either. Obviously since you could do it in i13, its all good! |
I was going to type a long section by section response (God bless you Vin you have more patience than I do apparently), but you're just not worth it.
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I've had it used on me, but I haven't tried it myself. Does it create an area of effect wherein the heal decay is suspended? Or do you get a buff that stays with you even if you leave the tp zone?
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Incandescence Core Epiphany needs Nerfing... it has a 14.9 sec stun in PvP. Everyone is exploiting this power in PvP. Please fix it. You can check under description and PvP effects under Detailed info.
You can check the zone on freedom, major exploit of this power