Suggestions to improve Super Packs
By
Ardrea,
Posted on: 2011-11-20 22:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
As you read, please respect that I present my thoughts as calmly and logically as I know how.
Definitions
A review of terminology to start.
* a-la-cart: Individual items sold separately. Present examples would be Cyborg Belt, Experiment Emote, Restore Temporary Power, etc. This is important because when the Paragon Market originally replaced the NC Soft store, it was promised to be better because players would be able to choose the pieces they want instead of having to buy things in bundles with items they did not want.
* Bundle: A collection of items sold together. Past examples were Magic Super Booster, Animal Pack, etc. Bundles currently exist in the Paragon Market by player request for pieces grouped by similar theme such as Circle of Thorns and Halloween, the latter being a limited-time option.
* Pack: This has previously been used interchangeably with Bundle, but currently in the Paragon Market it means power(s), item(s), and/or game content beyond just costume pieces. Examples would be Jump Pack, Rocket Pack, First Ward Zone Pack, and Super Pack.
* Super Pack: The reason all other exciting announcements for i22 have been overshadowed by upset reactions. It uses Paragon Points in the Paragon Market to make a random roll for merits, consumables, costume pieces, and/or ATIOs. The latter two are new and exclusive with the Super Pack.
Objection
My concern is two-fold.
First, the Paragon Market was pitched to the players as an improvement by offering items a-la-carte. The Super Pack does not fit into the promised a-la-carte model.
Second, the costume pieces and ATIOs are exclusive behind a random roll. Again, this does not comply with the a-la-carte model. This regresses back to the Booster Packs in the NC Soft store, then takes another step backwards by being a random roll - beyond the player's ability to select as desired.
There are other concerns fellow players have raised as red-flags, but these are the two I will be addressing.
Options
Some proposed changes for the Super Pack to become more player-friendly.
==> VIP Costumes
I was surprised when the FPS Ustream chat, without prompting, nearly unanimously desired the Celestial costume pieces be made available in the Paragon Market. Those who would not have enough Paragon Tokens before the pieces would be cycled out said they wanted a chance to get them. Those who already had the pieces said they didn't mind everyone else buying them.
Putting the Celestial Armor pieces into the Super Pack (and releasing elsewhere the new costume sets intended for the Super Packs) is a possible solution. Those who paid for Tier 9 VIP access can select the costume bundles. Those who didn't want to spend that much before the costume set is rotated out of Tier 9 VIP can still get it through the Super Pack.
This would also allow VIPs to enjoy future costume sets with some exclusivity of using the pieces before the bulk of the players got access via the Super Pack. Players who would spend money on the elusive costume pieces get more opportunity to do so by deciding to buy Tier 9 VIP now versus wait for Super Pack random rolls.
Maybe a similar solution could be used for the ATIOs. Make them Tier 9 VIP repeatable rewards first, then later as a random roll drop in the Super Pack.
Challenges: The devs have stated the Celestial Armor and similar sets are intended to be Tier 9 VIP only.
==> Limited-Time Sale
Have the new costume sets and ATIOs be random drops in the super Pack, as currently planned. ALSO have a sale of the costume pieces as bundled set and a-la-carte as a limited-time offer, similar to how the Halloween Costume Bundle and individual pieces were only available for a few weeks. Have the sale start three weeks after the Super Pack is available in the Paragon Market, and have the sale last for three week. Announce the upcoming sale before the Super Pack goes live.
Currently an exclusive power for a non-customizable costume transformation power costs 480 points. A bundle of customizable costume parts costs 400 points. Based on the Barbarian set all the a-la-carte pieces total 1100 points, aka 275% of the bundle. To me, this says that an exclusive bundle for a customizable costume set ought to cost between 600 and 800 points, with the a-la-carte option totaling 275% of each bundle.
A similar 150-200% markup in base price for a limited-time sale of ATIOs might be arranged.
This higher cost will treat them like Collector's Edition items. Plus it will keep the Super Pack, with its low price and many extras, an attractive alternative even during the sale. Three weeks is long enough to allow everyone to participate if they want, while being short enough to be a limited-time offer.
This fulfills the promise that the costume sets available in the market can be purchased a-la-carte. Plus those who can't wait for the sale, who skip the sale, or join City Of Heroes after will still have the ability to obtain the items via the Super Pack.
Challenges: Logistics of arranging said sale before i22 goes live.
Conclusion
Of the two options outlined, I think the latter Limited-Time Sale is the best option for integrating the Super Pack into City Of Heroes while still maintaining the a-la-carte integrity of the Paragon Market.
My personal favorite option would be for the costumes like Celestial to become an exclusive drop in the Super Packs once it is cycled out of the Tier 9 VIP in the Paragon Rewards Program.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sorry but don't see the point in a seperate thread for this when Zwillinger is already looking at and taking feedback in the other thread.
There are plenty of suggestions on how to improve the Superpacks in the UNofficial super pack thread as it is. It's kind of pointless to create two seperate threads for it.
Still, while we're here. Remove exclusive costume pieces, keep exclusive ATIO sets.
That will cut 95% of the complaints against the Superpack.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
To quote myself from the other thread:
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If you want to add the random booster in addition to selling the costumes/IOs/whatever directly in the store, that's fine. But I don't want to rely on hiding the cost of the game in a shiny slot machine.|
Originally Posted by Darkonne
Okay. My suggestion would be to increase the cost of items in the store and VIP subscriptions to a level that can actually sustain the game.
That's the point behind the superpack lottery, so let's just cut to the chase. |
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
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Okay, so keep the largest-boost enhancements available as purchasable rewards while removing the costume parts into their traditional a-la-carte and bundles. Correct, Dr_MechanoEU?
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
Remove exclusive costume pieces, keep exclusive ATIO sets.
That will cut 95% of the complaints against the Superpack. |
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Thank you for your opinions, Darkonne, but it is not the purpose of this thread to think of how to remove the Super Packs or make them redundant. That discussion is still continuing in the The UNofficial Super Pack Feedback Thread.|
Originally Posted by Darkonne
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This thread is for ideas on how to improve the Super Packs be a desirable repeat purchase to you when it goes live to the Paragon Market.
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That would be correct.|
Originally Posted by Llydia
Okay, so keep the largest-boost enhancements available in-game as purchasable rewards while removing the costume parts into their traditional a-la-carte and bundles. Correct, Dr_MechanoEU?
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It really would strip away the largest complaint that people have with the Superpack idea. Nobody is saying we shouldn't pay for those costume pieces, heck even at an increased rate (say double the normal points cost of a costume piece) would be fine.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
Quote:
Sounds good to me.|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
That would be correct.
It really would strip away the largest complaint that people have with the Superpack idea. Nobody is saying we shouldn't pay for those costume pieces, heck even at an increased rate (say double the normal points cost of a costume piece) would be fine. |
What other consumable items would you like to see in Super Packs so you don't feel like you are getting one good item and the rest are unwanted junk?
Another idea I'm seeing with several proponents is to have the Super Packs became completely like virtual trading cards.
After a Super Pack is purchased, the resulting random items are awarded as redeemable tokens. These tokens can be traded with other players in a market separate from the in-game Consignment Houses. This would prevent indirect "real money for influence" negativity. Sort of like a vast game of Pit.
Challenges: A new system and UI interface would be needed to trade Super Pack tokens.
The way to improve super packs is to gut them.
- Take all of the rewards exclusive to super packs and give players a way to earn them in-game, without spending real money.
- Make the same rewards available in the Paragon Market to be purchased a la carte.
- Keep the price of the random roll super packs very low. Maybe a dollar for one pack.
With these changes, people can play the game and earn the same rewards by spending their time instead of their money; they can purchase the items outright in the real money store; or they can gamble in an attempt to get the items at a cheaper price.
We were told CoH Freedom would be about choice. This gives players a choice instead of making them feel like walking wallets.
Perhaps, per Issue release for Costume Pieces:
CYCLING DOWN
New Costume Set(s)---> Tier 9 VIP Choice
Previous Tier 9 VIP Choices ---> SuperBooster pack
Previous SuperBooster items ---> A la Carte
AND
"Enhanced Rewards" Liscence (30 Day) = 160 Paragon Points for non-VIP
*Archetype Origins (ATOs) drop chance added for all your characters. (not Account bound)
Quote:
Forgot to mention SuperBooster could still host ATOs, but VIPs and "Enhanced Rewards" Liscence holders could still acquire them via defeating enemies in-game at a determined drop-rate ratio.|
Originally Posted by SupaFreak
Perhaps, per Issue release for Costume Pieces:
CYCLING DOWN New Costume Set(s)---> Tier 9 VIP Choice Previous Tier 9 VIP Choices ---> SuperBooster pack Previous SuperBooster items ---> A la Carte AND "Enhanced Rewards" Liscence (30 Day) = 160 Paragon Points for non-VIP *Archetype Origins (ATOs) drop chance added for all your characters. (not Account bound) |
So theoretically, this could entice spending to acquire Tier 9 VIP unlocking but not forcing long-time paying customers to succumb to gambling packs and possibly tempt insta-gratification seekers to try their luck getting the ATO they can't get to drop in-game but again not forcing loyal VIP subscribers into partaking into that system to acquire the items.
As a 7 year Vet, I've never cared if content such as City of Villains, Going Rogue or in this case... Celestial Armor eventually becomes accessible to those who did not have it earlier. I paid to enhance my experience at the time. It's why I still pay to go to the movie theatres vs waiting for DVD.
That is all. Keep up the ideas!
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I especially agree with this point, Doughboy.|
Originally Posted by Doughboy
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Even if they did include the chance for a full costume set to drop -and- an ATIO -and- my most commonly used consumable power, I will not be willing to pay more than 80 Paragon Points on the gamble.
My suggestion is to keep the super packs as is, but sell "exclusive" costume sets separate at a 25% mark-up over other costume sets and similarly slightly overcharge for ATIOs. If you want to allow players to trade cards, let them buy the costumes as a set of cards costume cards which they can do with as they please.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SupaFreak
Perhaps, per Issue release for Costume Pieces:
CYCLING DOWN New Costume Set(s)---> Tier 9 VIP Choice Previous Tier 9 VIP Choices ---> Super Pack Previous Super Pack items ---> A la Carte |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SupaFreak
As a 7 year Vet, I've never cared if content such as City of Villains, Going Rogue or in this case... Celestial Armor eventually becomes accessible to those who did not have it earlier. I paid to enhance my experience at the time. It's why I still pay to go to the movie theatres vs waiting for DVD.
That is all. Keep up the ideas! |
I think other costume unlockables that are from season events might be good incentives in the Super Pack too: Stocking Cap, Victory Laurel, Toga, Cape of the Four Winds, Heart pattern, Golden Nice Halo, etc.
Weapon/Shield unlocks might work too, but only if there was a way to trade the drop since not everyone has characters that can use them.
Quote:
So you'd like to buy the costumes separately? That does seem to be a request everyone has who wants the costume sets.|
Originally Posted by Sermon
My suggestion is to keep the super packs as is, but sell "exclusive" costume sets separate at a 25% mark-up over other costume sets and similarly slightly overcharge for ATIOs. If you want to allow players to trade cards, let them buy the costumes as a set of cards costume cards which they can do with as they please.
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What, then, would you like to get that would entice you to buy the Super Pack repeatedly?
Quote:
Maybe 95% of your complaints. I understand the reasoning behind your assumption - costume pieces are (currently) locked to the account while ATIOs will be tradable on the markets. But there are still problems with the idea of ATIOs being in there. Currently there are 14 ATs, but HEATs and VEATs each share a set, so that comes out to being 12 ATIO sets. 6 enhancements per set, meaning 72 possible enhancements.|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
Still, while we're here. Remove exclusive costume pieces, keep exclusive ATIO sets.
That will cut 95% of the complaints against the Superpack. |
Now for an in-game analogue. I don't know if you've experienced this situation, but maybe you've seen the purple RECIPE FOUND text float up on your screen, only to discover that it's the Sleep proc and worth less than some of the uncommon pool A recipes. I have experienced that feeling, and let me tell you that it's horrible. Now imagine if you paid money to experience it.
A circle forms, everybody comes round
Just to hear the incredible sound
Of a genius smashing expectations
- Jonathan Coulton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SupaFreak
*Archetype Origins (ATOs) drop chance added for all your characters. (not Account bound)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SupaFreak
Forgot to mention SuperBooster could still host ATOs, but VIPs and "Enhanced Rewards" License holders could still acquire them via defeating enemies in-game at a determined drop-rate ratio.
So theoretically, this could entice spending to acquire Tier 9 VIP unlocking but not forcing long-time paying customers to succumb to gambling packs and possibly tempt insta-gratification seekers to try their luck getting the ATO they can't get to drop in-game but again not forcing loyal VIP subscribers into partaking into that system to acquire the items. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SupaFreak
*Archetype Origins (ATOs) drop chance added for all your characters. (not Account bound)
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Nothing. They shouldn't bother aiming them at me. I don't even want the enhancements.
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Originally Posted by Llydia
What, then, would you like to get that would entice you to buy the Super Pack repeatedly?
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Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mokalus
Maybe 95% of your complaints. I understand the reasoning behind your assumption - costume pieces are (currently) locked to the account while ATIOs will be tradable on the markets. But there are still problems with the idea of ATIOs being in there. Currently there are 14 ATs, but HEATs and VEATs each share a set, so that comes out to being 12 ATIO sets. 6 enhancements per set, meaning 72 possible enhancements.
Now for an in-game analogue. I don't know if you've experienced this situation, but maybe you've seen the purple RECIPE FOUND text float up on your screen, only to discover that it's the Sleep proc and worth less than some of the uncommon pool A recipes. I have experienced that feeling, and let me tell you that it's horrible. Now imagine if you paid money to experience it. |
If random ATIOs would not tempt you to buy, what would make Super Packs enjoyable for you to repeatedly purchase?
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There's a thread waiting for you --> that-a-way...
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Originally Posted by Sermon
Nothing. They shouldn't bother aiming them at me. I don't even want the enhancements.
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I made a constructive suggestion in my first post. Sorry that you didn't like my reply on additional details.
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Originally Posted by Llydia
There's a thread waiting for you --> that-a-way...
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Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
Quote:
I do appreciate your preference for having the costumes and ATIOs be available for purchase at an increased price in the general Paragon Market as well as in the Super Pack. I, too, agree that the Super Pack having exclusive content never obtainable elsewhere is a Bad Idea.|
Originally Posted by Sermon
I made a constructive suggestion in my first post. Sorry that you didn't like my reply on additional details.
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But the primary purpose of this thread is to tell Paragon Studios what they can do so you (and I and each of us) will want to purchase the Super Pack repeatedly.
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The problem is that it will never work for everyone. My original suggestion was a aimed to give incentive to the super packs over buying costume pieces outright (the incentive being that the "exclusive" costume pieces would have a higher--than-average price). This would give incentive to players who are open to paying for all/most items in the super pack (enhancements, enhancers, merits, temp powers) to buy the packs, while leaving an out for those who want only one thing (costumes or IOs)|
Originally Posted by Llydia
But the primary purpose of this thread is to tell Paragon Studios what they can do so you (and I and each of us) will want to purchase the Super Pack repeatedly.
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As a player who has no interest in either ATIOs and convenience boosts, nothing would make me want to buy them repeatedly. I don't even want them once. I already do one repeatable purchase, that is the subscription. I also buy every costume set and powerset they make available.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
Quote:
Nothing.|
Originally Posted by Llydia
But the primary purpose of this thread is to tell Paragon Studios what they can do so you (and I and each of us) will want to purchase the Super Pack repeatedly.
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Offering to sell me random new things will simply make me not buy anything. I don't buy random products or services at stores. I don't want random in-game goods either.
If they want me to keep spending money at the store, they have to keep giving me new things. And I realize that's a problem for Paragon Studios, because that takes time and money to produce new things. But that's exactly what Freedom was sold as. A way for the studio to make more money so that they increase investment in making more new things.
I'm not willing to subsidize a stream of new deterministic things both by spending money on some of the deterministic things and spending money on random things.
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If you are wanting to complain about the proposed Super Pack, join the line at the The UNofficial Super Pack Feedback Thread. Thank you.
Everyone else still here, please join in a discussion on how we can help Zwillinger and the rest of the Paragon Studios team make the introduction of the Super Pack in the Paragon Market a success.
There have been some ideas started in the aforementioned thread, but they are getting drowned out by the sheer mass of response. Thus this focus thread is to get those ideas in an easy-to-find location.
What can be included to make the Super Packs a enjoyable incentive for repeatedly spending Paragon Points?
Please include as little or as much detail as you'd like. If you can think of any, please also include what hurdles would have to be overcome in order to implement your idea.
If you think someone else's idea has merit, please say so! We all need encouragement to speak our minds and continue brainstorming.
Here's our chance to make our favorite game even better!
Let's begin...