Tanker ST Attack chain discussion

I wanted to start a discussion about what are the top effective DPS attack chains for a post-incarnates tanker for each power set. I don't need exact builds but you are welcome to post them. I just need you to mention the slotting used for your attacks so the damage, recharge, and procs can be incorporated in the calculations). For the sake of argument let's assume you have the 75% DoT T4 reactive interface (or another interface if you think it'll provide better results, but this one will add 50.1 damage to each attack). For the alphas, select whichever you want and properly incorporate its benefits into your calculations (such as more recharge or damage with its ED protection).

Let's assume you don't have assault and that you're not using build up (or equivalent, unless it's an attack in your attack chain). The only damage buffs should come from enhancements, attacks, and alphas. If you like to add BU into the chain and show numbers with and without it, then awesome, thanks. But I don't want to do attack chain calculations that has to go so long it waits for BU's recharge. On the otherhand, I am curious to see SS's attack chain with single stacked rage as it would have a long duration before the crash.

Include resistance debuffs in your DPS calculations if they apply. Bruising, average reactive proc debuff) average Achilles proc debuff, rib cracker, etc.

Assume you have 140% global recharge (hasten and IO set bonuses).

Assume you have a 95% chance to hit the target.



Finally, please include the calculations in your post. This will allow for others to easily verify and will help others how to do these calculations.

I know this is a hefty request, but I think it would ne great to get some of the great minds on these forums to come up with realistic optimal attack chains for tankers and see how much bruising and damage procs close the gap on other ATs attack chains. But mostly it's a great way to evaluate build goals for future tankers

Dark Melee: SP-Smite-SP-Gloom

Alright, I'm cheating a bit. I said you can assume only a 140% global recharge, well this chain would require quite a bit more than that, but I wanted to analyze this one as it is perhaps the top ST attack chain for Dark Melee.

Slotting:

Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Mako-Dam%(A), Zinger-Dam%(3), Hectmb-Dam%(3), Cloud-%Dam(5), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(7)

Level 2: Smite -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mako-Dam%(11), Zinger-Dam%(11)

Level 41: Gloom -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(43), Cloud-%Dam(43)

With this slotting for gloom (enhancements provided 89.92%) I would need 173.72% more global recharge to make this attack chain gapless. This can easily be done (though with some cost to the build in other areas, but in actuality it is not that bad). If I wanted the easy way out, I would have gone with the Spiritual Alpha T4. But I knew I could achieve this much recharge if needed and that I would rather have the Musculature Alpha T4 for my analysis. If I chose the T4 Ageless Destiny (I would want to for recovery and recharge purposes), I would be granted a minimum of 10% global recharge at all times. This helps quite a bit.

I frankenslotted Shadow Punch heavily with procs and damage, and not much else. It did not need recharge because I have enough global (and Destiny) to have it up after every other attack. I have enough Accuracy from IO bonuses and it's low in endurance cost (Plus Destiny helps with that too).

*BTW, although I didn't post a build (for obvious reasons), I did actually use Mids to come up with the values in my calculations (I did not slot anywhere for defense, just used melee and common pool powers available to any Dark Melee tanker). I also slotted these melee powers and was able to get enough recharge for this chain without much difficulty.*

Incarnates:

Alpha: Musculature Core T4
Destiny: Ageless T4 (+recovery)
Interface: Reactive T4 (75% DoT)

Again, I wanted Ageless to give me the endurance protection and recharge boost while Musculature gives me as much damage as possible.

Reactive grants each attack power an average of 50.1 Damage. That's huge for DPS, especially if you have quick attacks - as this chain does.

Calculations:

Power (Dmg) (Proc Dmg) Cast Recharge
Shadow Punch (35.45+52.13) (78.393) 1.056s 1.1s
Smite (99.83+31.95) (28.7) 1.188s 1.75s
Gloom (184.56) (49.693) 1.32s 3.3s

Chain Damage 164.7--164.8--164.7--231.5 = 725.7 Damage
Add in 50.1 to each attack (Reactive) ... 725.7 + 4*50.1 = 926.1
Chain Time = 4.62
Attacks per second = 4/4.62 = 0.8658
Reactive will have 25% chance for 2.5% resistance debuff on every attack...
According to calculations done here: "http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=276557"
If you can do 8 attacks that hit in 8.3 seconds, you will get 4.92% debuff. We fit in 7.186 in ten seconds, with 95% chance at hitting, we'll round this down to the 7 hits and use the 4.34% value for the average resistance debuff over time
Resistance debuff equals 24.34% (Bruising and Reactive)
Damage over chain equals (926.1)*(.95)*(1.2434)= 1093.9 Damage
DPS = 1093.9/4.62 = 236.78

This is impressive for a tank, not to mention that you could theoretically perma soul drain and watch this number climb a little bit... but I chose to just show this chain with no build up.

I'm curious what folks will come up with for Ice Melee. I'm not too good with the DPS calculations, but I'm running IS>FT>IS>Gloom on my Icer.

Ice Melee: FF--FT--IS--Gloom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infini I'm curious what folks will come up with for Ice Melee. I'm not too good with the DPS calculations, but I'm running IS>FT>IS>Gloom on my Icer.

I decided to change the attack chain you use. I went with FF--FT--Gloom--IS. The chain you suggested had gaps and lacked the bruising mechanic (can't just throw away 20% more damage, unless there is some good reason). Here are my calculations: It also took more than 140% global recharge, but I decided to go ahead and throw away that requirement so long as the global recharge doesn't have to be too rediculous.

Incarnates:
Alpha: T4 Musculature Core
Destiny: T4 Ageless *for recharge and recovery*
Interface: T4 Reactive 75% DoT

Powers:
Frozen Fists: 1.584s cast time. Low base damage (139.3 DMG), but is low endurance and fast recharge.
Ice Sword: 1.584s cast time. Higher base damage than FF (178.4), moderate recharge, moderate.
Gloom: 1.32s cast time. Awesome base damage (229.9), low cast time.
Freezing Touch: 1.188s cast time. Awesome base damage (242.7), low cast time. Requires 256.5% recharge to make this attack chain gapless. 89.92% came from enhancements, 70% comes from hasten, the other ~97% is from other global recharge.

Slotting:

Level 1: Frozen Fists -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(3), T'Death-Dam%(3), Mako-Dam%(5), ImpSwft-Dam%(5), Zinger-Dam%(7)

Level 2: Ice Sword -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Mako-Dam%(9), ImpSwft-Dam%(11), Zinger-Dam%(11)

Level 28: Freezing Touch -- Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(29), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(31), Hectmb-Dam%(31), UbrkCons-Dam%(31)

Level 38: Gloom -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Cloud-%Dam(40)

Calculations:
FF--FT--IS--Gloom

Chain Duration: 5.676s
Chain Damage: 790.3 dmg
Attacks per seconds: 4/5.676 - 5.85 attacks per 8.3 seconds
Total Damage 790.3 + 50.1*4 (4 attacks with reactive interface DoT) = 990.7

Resistance debuff = 23.4% (20% bruising, 3.4% reactive from 5.85 attacks in 8.3 seconds. After misses, it's about 5.5 landed attacks per 8.3 seconds. I went with 3.4% because it's half way between 3.12% and 3.74% from 5 and 6 landed hits respectively)

DPS = 990.7*0.95*1.234/5.676s = 204.6

Conclusion:
I was surprised Ice was this close to Dark, but sure enough, Freezing Touch is a great power. It made up a lot of the slow animating low damaging attacks from FF, and to some degree IS.

Can you do me one for martial arts?

I am debating with someone on the merits of thunder kick as an attack cause I see the attack chain as quick enough recharging as to be replaceable entirely with gloom, and only used in the beginning of a fight, assuming you dont have 4 other people with -resistance debuffs on the team.

It should be close. TK and SP have the same activation, recharge and damage, and Storm Kick is actually ahead of Smite because it activates a bit faster. A seamless chain for Martial Arts is 4.488 seconds as compared to 4.62 for Dark Melee.

Martial Arts: TK -- SK -- TK -- Gloom
(Invulnerability/MA Tank Build)

Alright, this post is a little bit different. I was working on an Inv/MA tanker, and I figure I will share it with you. I have calculated the DPS for a single target attack as well. Just a heads up warning, I did this without an updated Mids (I don't think there is an updated one, anyways). For some reason, I can not slot Taunt IOs into my attacks (I like using Perfect Zinger's damage proc in my T1 attacks, as you've seen me do in the past), so I left an empty slot open in my Thunder Kick, but still used it's 14.35 damage in my calculations (later). Also, I am not using the Musculature T4 Alpha as I normally do. I had to go with the T4 Agility Alpha (Not available in Mids yet) to help the build in areas it needed. I also am going with Ageless Destiny for the extra perma 10% recharge and the much needed recovery. With that in mind...

Here's the highlights of the build:
Perma Hasten, Perma Dull Pain, Perma Pet (Widow), and a Gapless ST attack chain of Thunder Kick - Storm Kick - Thunder Kick - Gloom.
This attack chain does approximately 225 DPS (calculations to come, but note, this is for a full build that has assault, and other damage IOs previously not used in my calculations... but I also am not using Musculature, so it's a bit of a wash).
I am near capped in HP (3532.5/3534 ... 0.1% off).
I am near capped in S/L resistance (89.7%).
I have 18% Psi resistance and 41.3% Psi defense (yeah, I'm covered :P)
I am softcapped (and then some) in S/L/E/N/F/C. 32% defense in M/R/A.
I have a ~3.7 second recharge on Dragon's Tail and ~8.5 seconds for Dark Obliteration to help provide me decent AoE attacks.
296% Regeneration (43.5 HP/sec)
23.5 second recharge on Focused Chi (Build Up).

Now if you wish to check the numbers, remember that Agility Alpha doesn't exist, so go to T4 Nerve to verify my defense numbers, go to T4 Spiritual Radial to verify my recharge numbers (also consider destiny is a perma 10% recharge on top of what's shown, so for powers already at ED you can use Spiritual T4 Core to give you that near extra 10% recharge to represent Ageless' impact).

Alright, would you like to see the build?

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1509;688;1376;HEX;|
|78DA6594594F135114C7EFB4536B4B91A5D0B2B5502C7483A105347103CA2231506|
|D447D33CD502E3061D23633AD91471FFC02FAE0A331BE1BB74FE2EE939FC0E51BD4|
|D3397FB0B1934E7FF7FEEF39F72C73670A0FD703AF361F2D0B25B066EAB65DBAA35|
|78EA4E529E8074659B42E2FDD51564BEB725F566CA9DDA83C68981569E9BB8669D4|
|8F87B15C90A6945A41B7EA866E96F256DD16DDC56AD5D4AE1B078775A372107066D|
|B52AFD1C4EF4C766A52EEF59CE87BD2B20F8D5A78A36694B555AB5197A59D6AC32C|
|1574BB2EADE321CA2543F7471FFD29ADEC9AAA48D120A10A57128C33D5041826465|
|4B11212B89A1E9171099153C59923C16CD225CE46787642BF64E6C953E1681E659A|
|3DFD09662009A698E7D22076FE4499BA91A9BBA8385A6F01DC62F6DF046F313F908|
|F877D8467DEED685F48F3B2E6F6A2E201543C808A4353CCCF64EB83AD0FB621D80E|
|C17608DDF94AB65DB0ED82ED086C476033069F35EA4337775074DB5CA742C7A3075|
|A8FD3C56FB4639FD3AEA6D237C815457B996EB20E225A10D1A2881645948993E746|
|B6836CEB1AC43E13D867628019229B30DB2861D8C4B0F69DF21886FFF07F6BB12DE|
|EEA065534CAD9BB465F7245E79F832F989314238218910C3FD538D8476BE3581B47|
|8C69E4B8497B4FE2BC4D5EE3BDA6AF82579889CBE025F031B34CE94DC1772AC75A6|
|A16D4C039663A0BCE307F048448E2C4255F63ED0D73E62DF80E7CCF946E7EAF5A3E|
|9979D6662F8217C045E6DC02739F7C34E4A82D616D195C61E6F2E02AB8C6ECA7BE6|
|571C2B331EEE54FFFE95B269459D67EFFD35CCA3DEEEBD812BFCFF1BB3CFFD5EE97|
|64BF3FED7E4FF03C9F32E3CF9863EAE9F7807EAD939B524FBF2ACD74C76AB643C97|
|5280B1DCA6287B2DDAEA0CEA28AC0AD1A1C2B5F2F7D37586916FDADF3C563BD6DBC|
|DB36BEDF3676AEDB41DA191BFC05597CE407|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

How about some ST DPS chains that DON'T lock you into only one possible choice for an APP?

Or better yet, some chains that contain powers only found in the secondary?

Because my tanks are all blue-side, and I'm not going to side switch just to take a power that has nothing to do with my concept. I min/max a bit, but I do it within the boundaries of my character's concept.

I might take Gloom if my tank is Dark Armor or Dark Melee, but I'm not going to take it on an Invuln/StJ for example.

Yeah, Gloom is awesome, but builds without would be nice. Currently I am looking for a /Fire/Pyre Chain. Wondering if "perma" Incinerate DoT would be worth it.

Well this thread is an open discussion, feel free and post a ST attack chain of your liking. I just ask that you put down how you would slot the powers and to tell us how much recharge you would need to make it gapless. I went with powers that any Tanker could have (so Secondary, pools and epics were fine).
If doing the calculations is too much, just tell me what attacks and what slotting you want, I'll do the numbers.

I didn't have any particular chain in mind, I was just commenting on the fact that every chain you had posted so far included Gloom.

Edit:

Actually, now that I think about it, I WAS curious about something.

Could you calculate the average DPS of Shadow Punch, slotted with 2 level 50 Acc/Dam/Rech IOs, 1 Dam/Rech and Cloud Senses: Chance for NE Damage, Touch of Death Chance: for NE Damage, and Hecatomb: Chance for NE Damage?

I had an idea I wanted to try out. Remember that Shadow Punch will be keeping a permanent 20% -Res debuff on my opponent. I was considering slotting Reactive Interface 50% -res/50% Chance for DoT.

I was curious as to whether it would be possible to AFK solo an AV by putting Shadow Punch on autofire. To that end I may slot the -regen Interface instead. The tank in question is a Shield/DM, so he'll be getting a 15% damage boost from AAO as well. Was shooting for at least a tier 3 Spiritual Alpha to round it all out.

I seem to be getting back into playing my SD/SS/energy tank alot again and was wondering about a good ST chain. If you don't mind coming up with one for me here are a few things to keep in mind. I'll be using AAO and Assault for damage boost, and hopefully I'll be able to keep my double stacked rage aswell. Secondary powers doesn't matter to me, use which ever ones will work the best and if laser eyes would help feel free to include it if it won't then that's fine also. It's not a concept toon build so I'm not worried about having or not having certain powers from secondary or having laser eyes or not. Think I'm running the 75% chance for DoT atm also. Hope I didn't forget any helpful information yu might need. Thanks in advance!!!

Super Strength:

In the future I will do more numbers on Super Strength, such as without Gloom. Unfortunately, without gloom in this set, there will be quite a fall off in the ST department. KO Blow is a really long recharge, where you will likely only have it up once every 7 seconds when you're IO'd out.

Chains:
1) Jab -- KO Blow -- Gloom -- Jab -- Haymaker -- Jab -- Gloom
2) Jab -- Gloom -- Haymaker -- KO Blow -- Gloom -- Jab -- Haymaker (Obitus' suggestion - variant)

Chain 1: Jab -- KO Blow -- Gloom -- Jab -- Haymaker -- Jab -- Gloom

Need 238% recharge in gloom. 200% in Knockout Blow

Slotting:

Level 1: Jab -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(3), Hectmb-Dam%(3), Mako-Dam%(5), T'Death-Dam%(5), Zinger-Dam%(7)

Level 4: Haymaker -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(13), Mako-Dam%(15), ExStrk-Dam%(15), Zinger-Dam%(17)

Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(21), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(23), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(23), UbrkCons-Dam%(25)

Level 35: Gloom -- Cloud-%Dam(A), Apoc-Dam%(36), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(36), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(37)

Calculations:
Chain Duration: 10.546 seconds
Attacks per 8.3 seconds: 5.51, so I will use 3.12% average resistance debuff from reactive.
Total res debuff: 23.12%
Total chain damage: 1854.7
DPS before debuffs: 175.87
DPS after debuffs: 216.53
DPS after misses (Final): 205.70

After 1 rage*:
Final DPS: 247.35

After 2 rage*:
Final DPS: 288.94
*rage is calculated without crashes being factored in.


Chain 2: Jab--Gloom--Haymaker--KO Blow--Gloom--Jab--Haymaker

Need 258% recharge in Knock Out Blow. 204% in Gloom

Slotting:

Level 1: Jab -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(3), Hectmb-Dam%(3), Mako-Dam%(5), T'Death-Dam%(5), Zinger-Dam%(7)

Level 4: Haymaker -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(13), Mako-Dam%(15), ExStrk-Dam%(15), Zinger-Dam%(17)

Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(21), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(23), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(23), UbrkCons-Dam%(25)

Level 35: Gloom -- Cloud-%Dam(A), Apoc-Dam%(36), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(36), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(37)

Calculations:
Chain Duration: 10.942 seconds
Attacks per 8.3 seconds: 5.31, so I will use 3.12% average resistance debuff from reactive.
Total res debuff: 23.12%
Total chain damage: 1942.5
DPS before debuffs: 177.53
DPS after debuffs: 218.57
DPS after misses (Final): 207.65

After 1 rage*:
Final DPS: 252.21

After 2 rage*:
Final DPS: 296.78
*rage is calculated without crashes being factored in.


Conclusion:
Super Strength is one of the weird cases for melee. Typically the lower tier attacks have good DPS, but for SS it is terrible. Jab is more like a tier 0.5, and Punch is your Tier 1. So for this attack chain you rely heavily on Gloom and KO Blow (which has a long recharge at 25 seconds, making it difficult). What really makes up for it is rage, and without it the set is a little lack luster for DPS... but with it, it's a god for ST damage and AoE (Footstomp, of course).
Chain 2 outperformed Chain 1 by a little bit. It requires a little bit more recharge in KO Blow, but it's not too bad. Given the circumstances, I would likely stick with Chain 1 and slot KO Blow differently. Instead of using Hecatomb, I would slot it like Haymaker and take more advantage of the procs. This is just flavor for different users. Hecatomb is still great (if you can afford it) for its IO bonuses, and those may not be worth giving up to frankenslot KO Blow for a few more DPS.
Thank you Obitus for the suggestion.