Stone Melee: SF -- HM -- SF -- Gloom -- SF -- SS
This ST attack chain will be one of the more powerful ones for tankers, but it comes at a cost... it's an endurance hog. I likely would recommend taking a primary that will help with Endurance recovery, such as Electric Armor, Ice Armor, etc. On a side note, this is one of the sets that really doesn't need Gloom that much. Stone Fists, when slotted out will have a higher DPS than Gloom over it's cast time (before Build Up or any other damage buffs, that is). But for now, I stick with using Gloom because it's ST DPS is second to none and that I like the other powers in the Soul Mastery set for tankers. Darkest Night is a great survivability tool, effectively increasing your defense and resistance (synergy :-D), while Dark Obliteration is a good AoE with the -ToHit also providing more defense to you. It is an endurance hogger, but I typically go with Ageless Destiny to fix all of my endurance issues. With that said (sorry for the tangent), let's check out the numbers.
Chain:
SF -- HM -- SF -- Gloom -- SF -- SS
Requires 216% Recharge in Seismic Smash, which is very doable.
Incarnates:
Alpha: T4 Musculature Core
Destiny: T4 Ageless +recovery (This is selected mostly for the endurance hogging, less for the recharge)
Interface: T4 Reactive 75% DoT / 25 % Resistance Debuff
Slotting:
Level 1: Stone Fist -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Mako-Dam%(3), Zinger-Dam%(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg(5), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- Zinger-Dam%(A), ExStrk-Dam%(7), Mako-Dam%(9), Mako-Acc/Dmg(9), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 35: Gloom -- Cloud-%Dam(A), Apoc-Dam%(36), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- UbrkCons-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg(39), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(40), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Calculations:
Chain Duration: 8.052 seconds
Attacks per 8.3 seconds: 6.18, so I will use 3.74% average resistance debuff from reactive.
Total res debuff: 23.74%
Total chain damage: 1723.8
DPS before debuffs: 214.09
DPS after debuffs: 264.91
DPS after misses (Final): 251.67
Conclusions:
This is by far the most DPS for a ST attack chain for a tanker (that I've calculated so far, Fire has yet to come). Scary to think what a brute could do with it. Now I mentioned it earlier, but I need to mention it again, this is an endurance hog of a chain. Over the course of one chain you will use 43.62 endurance, which will equate to a loss of 5.42end/sec. So load up extra heavy on Stamina and take full advantage of ageless destiny. I probably wouldn't want to attempt this chain without Electric Armor (Energize and Power Sink, FTW). If you choose to go with a different Armor, you may want to throw in more endurance into the attacks and shave off some DPS... or go Cardiac and lose out on a lot more DPS.
Just a side note on Ageless Destiny. If you have your accolades (and not including any other IO bonuses, so that you have exactly 110 endurance on your build), you will have a perma recovery boost of 1.83 endurance per second.
For the firsts 10 seconds of Ageless, you will have 800% endurance recovery, in other words, your blue bar isn't going down at all.
For the next 20 seconds, you will have a 300% endurance boost, which equates to an additional 5.49 endurance per second... in other words, just what you need to run this chain. So for the first 30 seconds of Ageless, you will not drop your blue bar at all even while running this chain (As long as your toggles don't cost more than 1.83 endurance per second, your regular recovery should be able to handle that as well).
After that first 30 seconds is up, your endurance will begin to drop. Let's assume you have 1.88 endurance per second cost on your toggles. While running this attack chain your endurance will be dropping at a rate of 5.42+1.88 = 7.3 endurance per second. Your overall endurance recovery (including base stamina and ageless) will become ~346% (or 6.33 endurance per second... so you can still run this chain, but your endurance will be dropping at a rate of, we'll round it to 1 endurance per second). This will go on for 30 seconds.
So for the last minute, you will have your base recovery (1.83/sec), the ageless boost (another 1.83/sec), and a Stamina slotted for at least 84% end mods (another 0.84 end/sec) will give you a total recovery of 4.5 endurance/second. You will also be sitting at about 80 endurance. However, you are now losing 7.3-4.5 = 2.8 endurance per second. By my math, you will run out of endurance in the next 28.5 seconds. So ageless will only take you so far. But I just wanted to show you how far it will take you. Slot for some max endurance IO set bonuses (Eradication is nice, and Mocking Beratement is awesome), and try to get some good recovery set bonuses too (Purple IOs are great for that, as are many others).
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Obitus, I've been looking forward to you joining this thread for some time. I always appreciate your explanations and number crunching. I will look into these numbers again, not so much as a double check, but more so to confirm the consistency of the slotting and the use of Musculature Alpha (or if Spiritual is preferred). This way I can more accurately compare it to the other Tanker Melee sets I've analyzed. |
Originally Posted by Obitus
Scorch-Fire Sword-Scorch-Incinerate is 280.26 base damage over 5.808 seconds, for 48.25 DPS (ignoring misses). With 95% ED-compliant damage slotting, that number climbs to 94.1 DPS. With Bruising's debuff factored in, we're looking at 112.91 DPS.
If we throw a purple damage proc in Scorch and include the Tier 3 Reactive (or Spectral, or Preemptive) Interface DoT, then the number rises to 168.91 DPS. Scorch-GFS-Scorch-Incinerate is 315.9 base damage over 6.732 seconds, for 46.93 DPS (ignoring misses). With 95% ED-compliant damage slotting, that number climbs to 91.5 DPS. With Bruising's debuff factored in, we're looking at 109.8 DPS. If we throw a purple damage proc in Scorch and include the Tier 3 Interface DoT, the number rises to 158.11 DPS. It's not a major difference either way, but as your build piles on more procs and more damage bonuses (as bopphaholic seems to prefer), the gap will widen in absolute if not proportional terms. I'm not an expert on Fiery Melee (though I have been considering a new FM Tanker), and it's possible I made a mistake somewhere. Before I plugged the numbers into my spreadsheet I thought the GFS chain would win at the outset, but probably lose w/ Hecatomb + Interface. Turns out to my surprise that GFS is worse from the get-go, though not by much. Anyway, to the extent that you can conclude anything from the numbers above, I think it's fair to say that if you plan to use IO and Interface procs, you should be wary of longer-animating powers, almost regardless of their damage. Or perhaps it's fairer to say that longer-animating powers bear a second look, at least in a long-term DPS context. In regular content, against low-hp targets, you may well be better off with GFS. (Incinerate + GFS will very nearly two-shot a +0 minon @ level 50 with typical damage slotting. All you need is another 0.9% in damage buffs, whether from overslotting or global bonuses. The difference between two and three-shotting minions doesn't show up well on paper, but it's a pretty significant qualitative difference.) |
And you're right, I love slotting for procs, I think it's the one thing that can help tankers (or low melee toons in general) in closing the gap on the Scrapper/Brute DPS stronghold. And with bruising, you're just making your procs 20% more powerful than the other ATs
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FWIW, I think you're relying on Jab too much. The idea with SS is to time your attack chain so that you're only using Jab once per 10-second Bruising cycle (or as close as you can reasonably get to that standard). For instance, my Tanker's attack chain is Jab-Haymaker-Mu Lightning-KO Blow-Haymaker-Mu Lightning-> repeat. (9.678 seconds total.)|
Originally Posted by boppaholic
Super Strength: Jab -- KO Blow -- Gloom -- Jab -- Haymaker -- Jab -- Gloom
[snip] Conclusion: Super Strength is one of the weird cases for melee. Typically the lower tier attacks have good DPS, but for SS it is terrible. Jab is more like a tier 0.5, and Punch is your Tier 1. So for this attack chain you rely heavily on Gloom and KO Blow (which has a long recharge at 25 seconds, making it difficult). What really makes up for it is rage, and without it the set is a little lack luster for DPS... but with it, it's a god for ST damage and AoE (Footstomp, of course). |
My build is probably more defensive than you'd prefer; I chose Mu Lightning because I couldn't quite get Gloom to recharge fast enough to fit into a similarly structured chain, and I prefer the look of the Mu powers. IIRC, the best SS attack chain is Jab-Gloom-Haymaker-KO Blow-Gloom-Haymaker->repeat, but that takes a crapton of recharge in Gloom (+295% or so). If you have room for Punch, you can do Jab-Gloom-Haymaker-KO Blow-Gloom-Haymaker-Punch pretty easily, with the small caveat that your Bruising debuff won't quite be perma. (Chain is 11.22 seconds for an average Bruising debuff of 20 * (10 / 11.22) = 17.8%.)
Might actually be better to just live with a small pause after Gloom if you don't have the recharge to make the former chain seamless, but I'll have to look at that later.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Thanks. I suspect you're better at math than I am, but I like to pop my head into these little discussions because I always wring my hands endlessly over attack slotting when I'm plotting out builds. |
Originally Posted by boppaholic
Obitus, I've been looking forward to you joining this thread for some time. I always appreciate your explanations and number crunching. I will look into these numbers again, not so much as a double check, but more so to confirm the consistency of the slotting and the use of Musculature Alpha (or if Spiritual is preferred). This way I can more accurately compare it to the other Tanker Melee sets I've analyzed.
And you're right, I love slotting for procs, I think it's the one thing that can help tankers (or low melee toons in general) in closing the gap on the Scrapper/Brute DPS stronghold. And with bruising, you're just making your procs 20% more powerful than the other ATs . |
Totally agree about procs, btw; they definitely favor lower-damage ATs, especially those with consistent -RES. And Tankers get the extra advantage that they can slot Taunt sets into most every attack. Personally I have a hard time fitting a lot of procs into my builds, though; extra defenses are just too sexy.
In any case, it's nice to see the range of options quantified. Good stuff in this thread.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Fire Melee:
Alright, I will start off with three chains:
1) Scorch -- Fire Sword -- Scorch -- Incinerate
2) Scorch -- Incinerate -- Scorch -- Greater Fire Sword
3) Scorch -- Incinerate -- Scorch -- Gloom
For the first chain: Scorch -- Fire Sword -- Scorch -- Incinerate
Incinerate requires a recharge of 152.5%
Incarnates:
Alpha - T4 Musculature Core
Destiny - N/A
Interface - T4 Reactive +75% DoT
Slotting:
Level 1: Scorch -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Zinger-Dam%(3), Mako-Dam%(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg(5), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 4: Fire Sword -- Zinger-Dam%(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dam%(9), Mako-Acc/Dmg(9), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 38: Incinerate -- Mako-Dam%(A), Zinger-Dam%(39), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Calculations:
Chain Duration: 5.808 seconds
Chain Damage (including reactive): 1032.6
Attacks per 8.3 seconds: 5.72
Resistance Debuff: 20 (bruising) + 3.3 (reactive average) = 23.3%
DPS before debuff: 177.79
DPS after debuff: 219.22
Final DPS (w/ misses): 208.25
For the second chain: Scorch -- Incinerate -- Scorch -- Greater Fire Sword
Greater Fire Sword requires a recharge of 184%
Incarnates:
Same as first chain
Slotting:
Level 1: Scorch -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Zinger-Dam%(3), Mako-Dam%(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg(5), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 38: Incinerate -- Mako-Dam%(A), Zinger-Dam%(39), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Greater Fire Sword -- Mako-Dam%(A), Zinger-Dam%(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(42), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(43), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Calculations:
Chain Duration: 6.732
Chain Damage (after Reactive): 1196.9
Attacks per 8.3 seconds: 4.93
Resistance Debuffs: 20 + 2.8
DPS Before Debuffs: 177.79
DPS After Debuffs: 218.33
Final DPS (w/ misses): 207.41
For the third chain: Scorch -- Incinerate -- Scorch -- Gloom
Gloom requires a recharge of 184%
Incinerate requires a recharge of 170.6%
Incarnates:
Same as before
Slotting:
Level 1: Scorch -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Zinger-Dam%(3), Mako-Dam%(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg(5), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 35: Gloom -- Cloud-%Dam(A), Apoc-Dam%(36), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Incinerate -- Mako-Dam%(A), Zinger-Dam%(39), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Calculations:
Chain Duration: 5.544
Chain Damage (after Reactive): 1065.1
Attacks per 8.3 seconds: 5.99
Resistance Debuffs: 20 + 3.5
DPS Before Debuffs: 192.12
DPS After Debuffs: 237.27
Final DPS (w/ misses): 225.40
Conclusions:
Well, I am quite shocked by just how much of a wash it is between Chain #1 and Chain #2. If you want to have the big burst damage, I suppose go with Chain #2. If you want something more endurance friendly, perhaps Chain #1 would suit your interests. I suspect (but haven't confirmed) that if you increase your damage bonuses through either IO bonuses, assault, build up, or other outside buffs, you will see Chain #2 pull away because of its higher base damage.
As can be expected, Chain #3 (w/ Gloom) was tops. Not by a whole lot, but by about 18 DPS.
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I was attempting to do that attack chain, actually, but the 295% recharge was too rediculous. If I string it out, I could incorporate Dark Obliteration for better DPS. In fact, I'll get on those numbers now. It will be up once every 10 seconds or so, but could be a good replacement for one of my many Jabs. EDIT: The DPS on Dark Obliteration isn't enough to top a proc'd out Jab. I'm shocked, but by only being able to put 1 proc in D.O., Jab easily took the cake. [Technically, I can put two procs in D.O., but going the Positron route for IOs wasn't appealing as it offers very little recharge and D.O. needs a lot to get under 10 seconds recharge]|
Originally Posted by Obitus
My build is probably more defensive than you'd prefer; I chose Mu Lightning because I couldn't quite get Gloom to recharge fast enough to fit into a similarly structured chain, and I prefer the look of the Mu powers. IIRC, the best SS attack chain is Jab-Gloom-Haymaker-KO Blow-Gloom-Haymaker->repeat, but that takes a crapton of recharge in Gloom (+295% or so). If you have room for Punch, you can do Jab-Gloom-Haymaker-KO Blow-Gloom-Haymaker-Punch pretty easily, with the small caveat that your Bruising debuff won't quite be perma. (Chain is 11.22 seconds for an average Bruising debuff of 20 * (10 / 11.22) = 17.8%.)
Might actually be better to just live with a small pause after Gloom if you don't have the recharge to make the former chain seamless, but I'll have to look at that later. |
Also, your chain should still be perma, if I understand this correctly. But the bruising should begin when Jab ends. Then, between -Gloom-Haymaker-KO Blow-Gloom-Haymaker-Punch you will have used 9.9 seconds. This means you have 0.1 seconds to activate Jab (which means you will get the bruising still) and when Jab's attack ends, the bruising will start over for the next power. It's tight, and I may be wrong on the mechanics, but I believe you will still be perma.
Finally, why do I not incorporate punch? Eh, slots. And not enough of a gain. I can slot Jab with procs and get it very close to Punch with procs in terms of DPS (granted Punch would be missing the purple proc, but gains the KB proc in this scenario). So the question becomes, should I put the purple proc in Punch? The answer is no, only because you're using punch one time in the chain. My numbers showed no matter how I slot punch and jab, if I use them both only once in the same chain, I don't gain anything (negligible). So I decided to skip punch, use Jab multiple times, save the 5 enhancement slots, and keep the same result. But let me take a look at your suggested chain, I'll just tweak it, keeping Jab over Punch. So I'll look at Jab--Gloom--Haymaker--KO Blow--Gloom--Jab--Haymaker.
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My understanding is that Jab's debuff is only applied after the power lands. Activating the power 0.1 seconds before the previous debuff wears off shouldn't work because the debuff is on the target, and thus has no way of knowing when you start an attack; the target can only register damage when it hits.|
Originally Posted by boppaholic
Also, your chain should still be perma, if I understand this correctly. But the bruising should begin when Jab ends. Then, between -Gloom-Haymaker-KO Blow-Gloom-Haymaker-Punch you will have used 9.9 seconds. This means you have 0.1 seconds to activate Jab (which means you will get the bruising still) and when Jab's attack ends, the bruising will start over for the next power. It's tight, and I may be wrong on the mechanics, but I believe you will still be perma.
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So basically, I'm assuming that every Jab in the above-quoted cycle will be unbuffed by Bruising. Granted, that's the weakest part of the chain, which means that my averaging method is probably too harsh. And granted, I'll have to reconfirm in game that Jab's damage isn't buffed by the debuff on the first application. (Edit: Reconfirmed.)
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| Finally, why do I not incorporate punch? Eh, slots. And not enough of a gain. |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I must have misunderstood the mechanics. I treated the debuff like a buff (say Build Up). I thought when you have that 0.1 seconds left, Jab would be granted the benefit of the debuff (like how you would still get the full benefit of build up if you started the power before it wears off). But I understand now, when the damage is finally applied, the debuff had already wore off, so you would lose out on the benefit when the damage is applied. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Originally Posted by Obitus
My understanding is that Jab's debuff is only applied after the power lands. Activating the power 0.1 seconds before the previous debuff wears off shouldn't work because the debuff is on the target, and thus has no way of knowing when you start an attack; the target can only register damage when it hits.
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That's the thing, if I interfere in any way, it defeats the purpose of it being an AFK solo AV fight. So it will be entirely up to the RNG as to whether I survive or not. |
Originally Posted by MagicFlyingHippy
So, short answer, very doable. If you can keep from dying for long enough.
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I'm sure eventually things will go my way and I'll get it done, but it'll probably take several attempts before it happens.
Nice to know it's possible though. I'll have to give it a shot when my tank hits 50. He's 1 bubble away from 39 at the moment, I'll be going redside to get Gloom and should be in my mid 40's by the time I go over there and come back.
I'm still leaning toward the -regen Interface. I know it will be resisted, but it'll slow down an AV's regen enough to shave a minute or two off the time.
Hmm, how much would a chain involving Shadow Punch, Smite, Siphon Life, and Gloom do in DPS? I'm planning on skipping an attack, and I dislike the visual of Midnight Grasp, so that may be the one.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Since you seem to enjoy doing these so much, and I have no idea how ;-p
I've got another tanker combo that I play a bit if you want to give it a showing, it's a Fire/Dark tank, just curious how burn will affect the DPS if it'll make it better or worse. Right now I'm running pyre mastery with my tank and I don't have any of the incarnate powers on him, he's on my second account but I'm starting to like playing him more and more so I might have to roll another one on my main account, not sure how long I'll keep my second account VIP. Seen the /stone DPS, and that one of the primaries you suggested was ice. Glad you showed that, Ice/Stone is the tank I'm currently leveling now, so it'll keep me from asking when I get ready to do his final build heh.
Thanks again!
Thx boppaholic, much appreciated
Global @Cyberzombie
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Originally Posted by MagicFlyingHippy
It's entirely possible. Assuming your tank is able to survive being hit for that time.
Setting aside any set bonus damage, Shadow Punch slotted as such does 200.3 damage per activation, on average - assuming you're punching an AV that resists neither Smashing nor Negative. Multiply by Bruising, you get 240.36. Multiply by level shift, you get 264.396. A level 50 AV regenerates about 94 HP/second, so you'll eventually beat them if 264.396/cycle time is greater than 94. Which means you need a cycle time of less than ~2.8 seconds. Since you're just cycling one attack, Arcanatime doesn't factor into it, so you're just looking at Shadow Punch's .83s cast time. Subtract from 2.8, you need the recharge to be under 1.93 seconds. With nothing but your slotting and a Spiritual Core Paragon, you're already there. That said, more recharge means you'll go a lot faster. With just the slotting mentioned above, you're netting 27 hp/sec, so it'll take you about 17 and a half minutes to grind down their HP. I threw together a recharge-maximizing build that got the recharge time on Shadow Punch down to .86s, which lets you win in about seven and a half. So, short answer, very doable. If you can keep from dying for long enough. |
I'm sorry I missed this comment before. Which AVs don't have resistance to negative nor smashing? I didn't know that about arcanatime and it not applying to a same cycled power. Do you gave a reference for that, so I can get an in depth understanding on the matter?
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What makes you think it will shave a minute or two off the battle? You should look at the numbers and see what you find, but I am certain reactive will do more that any other interface ability. When I get the time I will do the numbers on your shadow punch only DPS with and without reactive. Stay tuned, hopefully sometime tonight I'll catch ip on everyone's requests. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
That's the thing, if I interfere in any way, it defeats the purpose of it being an AFK solo AV fight. So it will be entirely up to the RNG as to whether I survive or not.
I'm sure eventually things will go my way and I'll get it done, but it'll probably take several attempts before it happens. Nice to know it's possible though. I'll have to give it a shot when my tank hits 50. He's 1 bubble away from 39 at the moment, I'll be going redside to get Gloom and should be in my mid 40's by the time I go over there and come back. I'm still leaning toward the -regen Interface. I know it will be resisted, but it'll slow down an AV's regen enough to shave a minute or two off the time. Hmm, how much would a chain involving Shadow Punch, Smite, Siphon Life, and Gloom do in DPS? I'm planning on skipping an attack, and I dislike the visual of Midnight Grasp, so that may be the one. |
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Originally Posted by DeathHarvester
Since you seem to enjoy doing these so much, and I have no idea how ;-p
I've got another tanker combo that I play a bit if you want to give it a showing, it's a Fire/Dark tank, just curious how burn will affect the DPS if it'll make it better or worse. Right now I'm running pyre mastery with my tank and I don't have any of the incarnate powers on him, he's on my second account but I'm starting to like playing him more and more so I might have to roll another one on my main account, not sure how long I'll keep my second account VIP. Seen the /stone DPS, and that one of the primaries you suggested was ice. Glad you showed that, Ice/Stone is the tank I'm currently leveling now, so it'll keep me from asking when I get ready to do his final build heh. Thanks again! |
To all those who have requested attack chains, I'll work on it tonight after work. Some I may not be able to do, but I'll address each request individually in one maybe two long replies. I'm glad people are appreciating the numbers.
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Well, with softcapped Defenses, good resist from Tough and True Grit, and slotted-up and Incarnate-enhanced True Grit, Health, and Physical Perfection boosting your regeneration, you might well be fine. You'll be hit infrequently, what you get hit with will be resisted, and you'll regenerate it. For many AVs, that'll be enough. A Numina's and a Regenerative Tissue will help with that too.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
That's the thing, if I interfere in any way, it defeats the purpose of it being an AFK solo AV fight. So it will be entirely up to the RNG as to whether I survive or not.
I'm sure eventually things will go my way and I'll get it done, but it'll probably take several attempts before it happens. |
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Originally Posted by boppaholic
I'm sorry I missed this comment before. Which AVs don't have resistance to negative nor smashing? I didn't know that about arcanatime and it not applying to a same cycled power. Do you gave a reference for that, so I can get an in depth understanding on the matter?
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As for AVs available for a 50 to fight, that resist neither Negative nor Smashing ... Arbiter Sands, Barracuda, Cap'n Mako, Ice Mistral, Scirocco, Giovanna Scaldi, Vanessa DeVore, Romulus Augustus (both versions), ARCH-A, Baphomet, Calystix the Shaper, Countess Crey, Bile, Dreck, Citadel, Manticore, Synapse, The Radio, Serafina, Agent Crimson, Agent Indigo, ZenFlower, Anti-Matter, Battle Maiden, Chimera, Diabolique, Malaise, Mother Mayhem, Psychic Babbage, Psychic Clockwork King, Stheno, Lanaru the Mad, Mynx, Foreshadow, and Mirror Spirit. Also Bobcat and Neuron are neutral to Smashing and weak to Negative.
Jerk 4 Life
In brightest day, in blackest night/No evil shall escape my sight/Let those who worship evil's might/Beware my power ... Green Lantern's light!/(Meowth, that's right!)
My Arcs: #4827: Earth For Humans. #6391: Young Love.
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Diamagnetic Radial Flawless has a 100% chance to apply its debuff. That debuff lasts 8.3 seconds, applies -15% regen, and stacks up to 4 times.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I'm still leaning toward the -regen Interface. I know it will be resisted, but it'll slow down an AV's regen enough to shave a minute or two off the time.
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An AV at level 50 regenerates 94.239 hp/second, and has a debuff resistance of 85%. Your sum debuff per application will thus be 15% of 15%, or 2.25%. Over 8.3 seconds, against a 94.239 hp/second base, that means each Diamagnetic application will be worth 17.6 HP.
That's not *bad*, adding 17 damage per activation - that's more than the Touch of Death proc is worth, on average - but ... each application of Reactive Radial Flawless is worth 50.1 damage, before the -resist of Reactive. Reactive is better.
Jerk 4 Life
In brightest day, in blackest night/No evil shall escape my sight/Let those who worship evil's might/Beware my power ... Green Lantern's light!/(Meowth, that's right!)
My Arcs: #4827: Earth For Humans. #6391: Young Love.
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To be fair, the 50.1 damage is before the target's resistances are factored in. If the AV has high resistances, say 75%, then the real damage would be about 12.5, meaning your -rehen just might provide you with faster kill speed. But if the target has little to no resistance to fire damage, then reactive takes the cake. Plus the -resist would need to be factored too, which is gravy.|
Originally Posted by MagicFlyingHippy
Diamagnetic Radial Flawless has a 100% chance to apply its debuff. That debuff lasts 8.3 seconds, applies -15% regen, and stacks up to 4 times.
An AV at level 50 regenerates 94.239 hp/second, and has a debuff resistance of 85%. Your sum debuff per application will thus be 15% of 15%, or 2.25%. Over 8.3 seconds, against a 94.239 hp/second base, that means each Diamagnetic application will be worth 17.6 HP. That's not *bad*, adding 17 damage per activation - that's more than the Touch of Death proc is worth, on average - but ... each application of Reactive Radial Flawless is worth 50.1 damage, before the -resist of Reactive. Reactive is better. |
Can I get a confirmation on the duration of the -res proc? Is it 10 seconds or 8.3 seconds? I may need to redo my numbers because I thought it was 10
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City of Data says 8.3s.
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Originally Posted by boppaholic
To be fair, the 50.1 damage is before the target's resistances are factored in. If the AV has high resistances, say 75%, then the real damage would be about 12.5, meaning your -rehen just might provide you with faster kill speed. But if the target has little to no resistance to fire damage, then reactive takes the cake. Plus the -resist would need to be factored too, which is gravy.
Can I get a confirmation on the duration of the -res proc? Is it 10 seconds or 8.3 seconds? I may need to redo my numbers because I thought it was 10 |
Jerk 4 Life
In brightest day, in blackest night/No evil shall escape my sight/Let those who worship evil's might/Beware my power ... Green Lantern's light!/(Meowth, that's right!)
My Arcs: #4827: Earth For Humans. #6391: Young Love.
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So after going over bopp's numbers I found that I did make a mistake last night; I somehow copied the numbers for GFS without the extra Fire DoT damage. So the numbers I quoted for the GFS chain should look like this:|
Originally Posted by Obitus
I'm not an expert on Fiery Melee (though I have been considering a new FM Tanker), and it's possible I made a mistake somewhere. Before I plugged the numbers into my spreadsheet I thought the GFS chain would win at the outset, but probably lose w/ Hecatomb + Interface. Turns out to my surprise that GFS is worse from the get-go, though not by much. Anyway, to the extent that you can conclude anything from the numbers above, I think it's fair to say that if you plan to use IO and Interface procs, you should be wary of longer-animating powers, almost regardless of their damage.
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Scorch-GFS-Scorch-Incinerate is 351.4 base damage over 6.732 seconds, for 52.2 DPS (ignoring misses). With 95% ED-compliant damage slotting, that number climbs to 101.79 DPS. With Bruising's debuff factored in, we're looking at 122.14 DPS. If we throw a purple damage proc in Scorch and include the Tier 3 Interface DoT, the number rises to 170.49 DPS. |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I thought it was 4 times but people say it is actually 8 times now?
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Originally Posted by MagicFlyingHippy
Diamagnetic Radial Flawless has a 100% chance to apply its debuff. That debuff lasts 8.3 seconds, applies -15% regen, and stacks up to 4 times.
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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The Interface DoTs stack 8 times. The debuffs stack 4 times. Or so I understand.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
I thought it was 4 times but people say it is actually 8 times now?
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Cims -> {insert tier 1 attack} -> taunt for 9.5 seconds -> {insert tier 1 attack} -> taunt for 9.5 seconds -> {insert tier 1 attack}
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I know you probably don't care, but I did double check the numbers and you're absolutely right. Here's a break down on how it was calculated:|
Originally Posted by MagicFlyingHippy
Diamagnetic Radial Flawless has a 100% chance to apply its debuff. That debuff lasts 8.3 seconds, applies -15% regen, and stacks up to 4 times.
An AV at level 50 regenerates 94.239 hp/second, and has a debuff resistance of 85%. Your sum debuff per application will thus be 15% of 15%, or 2.25%. Over 8.3 seconds, against a 94.239 hp/second base, that means each Diamagnetic application will be worth 17.6 HP. That's not *bad*, adding 17 damage per activation - that's more than the Touch of Death proc is worth, on average - but ... each application of Reactive Radial Flawless is worth 50.1 damage, before the -resist of Reactive. Reactive is better. |
AV Hit Points (+0 level): 28271.7 HP
AV regeneration rate: 5% every 15 seconds.
This means the AV will heal at a rate of: 28271.7*0.05/15 = 94.24 HP/sec
If you can successfully land 4 attacks in an 8.3 second window (easy enough) using the 100% -regeneration proc, then you can expect the following loss in regeneration.
Assuming the above mentioned regeneration rate is 100% for an AV...
4 applications of this proc resisted by an AV (85%) would result in a regeneration decrease of 4*15*(1-0.85) = 9% regen debuff.
The HP/sec gained by the AV is now 94.24*(1-0.09) = 85.76 HP/sec.
This means that the AV is losing 8.48 HP/sec more than it normally does.
Over the span of 8.3 seconds, this total HP loss is equal to: 8.48*8.3 = 70.384. Because there are only 4 applications allowed within this 8.3 second window, we can consider this to be an HP loss of 70.384/4 = 17.6 HP per application.
Now, we all know that the reactive DoT proc will give you 50.1 damage per application (effectively, you can't reach its limit of 8 activations over 4.3 seconds while solo, so we won't worry about limits), Because the activations effective damage doesn't translate over due to the difference in limits, you need to translate it to DPS when comparing these two procs. The HP loss per second was 8.48 (We will call this the REAL DPS gained by using Diamagnetic). The REAL DPS gained by Reactive will be tricky to calculate as you have to consider the AV's resistance to fire damage, your attack speed, and what the average resistance debuff you're getting out of your proc.
The REAL DPS for reactive is dependent on two variables, your attack rate (how many landed hits per second) and the target's resistance to fire damage (speaking in terms of reactive DoT proc only). Actually, there's a third variable, that's the average Reactive resistance debuff applied, but it is directly related to your attack rate (as I'll show later). So what does this all mean? Well, if you don't land enough hits per second and/or the target has an extreme resistance against fire damage, then the Diamagnetic proc could actually be the better choice (I'm surprised by this, in fact).
Because there are multiple variables here, I can't give you one answer as to which proc to take, but here is my attempt at devising a formula for you to use.
How to Calculate Reactive's REAL DPS gained:
Given:
Rf = AV's fire resistance
A = attack rate (number of landed hits per second)
50.1 = Avg Reactive DMG per landed hit
r = average resistance debuff over time.
B = resistance debuffs not including reactive (Bruising, Rib Cracker, etc.)
To calculate r, you would use a combination of binomial probability and some other math to estimate the average debuff you would get. I explained the math in a different post that I referenced to earlier in this thread. You can search for it if you want, or trust my numbers. But here you go, if over the course of 8.3 seconds, if you land X attacks, your average resistance debuff (r) will be:
X=1, then r = 0.625%
X=2, then r = 1.25%
X=3, then r = 1.875%
X=4, then r = 2.5%
X=5, then r = 3.12%
X=6, then r = 3.74%
X=7, then r = 4.34%
X=8, then r = 4.92%
I stop at 8, as you are unlikely to get more attacks than that in an 8.3 second span. (*All these numbers are for the 75% DoT/ 25% -res Reactive Interface Proc*)
AVRf = Rf - (B + r)(1-Rf) *AV's final resistance*
REAL DPS = 50.1 x A x (1 - AVRf)
If this "REAL DPS" is more than the 8.48 HP/second lost (caused by Diamagnetic), then you should go with Reactive. Otherwise, you may want to go with Diamagnetic. HOWEVER!!! I am missing something for the REAL DPS gained for Reactive. I need to consider the extra damage the reactive resist debuff is giving your regular attack chain.... SO.....
R = AV's resistance to your chain's type of damage (so not necessarily Fire Damage)
ChainDPS = Whatever your DPS chain is before accounting for resistance debuffs
avr = R - B*(1-R) *AV's final resistance to your chain's damage type not including reactive... in other words, AV's final resistance when using Diamagnetic but still including your chain's regular resistance debuffs (such as Bruising, etc.)
AVR = R - (B + r)(1-R) *AV's final resistance to your chain's damage type including reactive's average resistance debuff and your chain's regular resistance debuffs*
(Reactive's) REAL DPS = [50.1 x A x (1-AVRf)] + [ChainDPS*(1-AVR) - ChainDPS*(1-avr)]
Now, if this value is greater than 8.48 DPS, then you should use Reactive, otherwise, Diamagnetic is the better choice (Granted, these calculations are for an AV scenario. If it's a different target, just calculate the HP loss caused by Diamagnetic, and compare to the REAL DPS of Reactive to see which is the better choice).
I had started a long reply to everyone quoted in this post, but as I go to submit it, I was logged out automatically. So out of frustration, I will start over, but I will not finish tonight. I will come back and edit this post to answer some questions that have been brought up but I had not had time to reply to yet.
On another matter, I was wrong before to assume the resistance debuff from Reactive Interface proc had a 10 second duration. It is apparently 8.3 seconds. I went back in all of my previous posts in this threat and made the correction and adjusted the numbers accordingly. Typically the DPS dropped by 1 or 2, only.
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I had made a build for you. But because of the log out, I lost the data chunk and I had already cleared it from my mids. As a consolation, here's my build of the exact same build that I run. His name is Starlight Enforcer, and I haven't exactly made him for DPS maximization, but he is very strong IMO. Now understand, this build was designed before Bruising came into affect, so I'll have to re-evaluate how I slot him. Honestly, with incarnates I really don't need so much slots in Health, Stamina, and Physical Perfection. I would likely shave some spots off there and give them to Jab to form a solid ST attack chain.|
Originally Posted by DeathHarvester
I seem to be getting back into playing my SD/SS/energy tank alot again and was wondering about a good ST chain. If you don't mind coming up with one for me here are a few things to keep in mind. I'll be using AAO and Assault for damage boost, and hopefully I'll be able to keep my double stacked rage aswell. Secondary powers doesn't matter to me, use which ever ones will work the best and if laser eyes would help feel free to include it if it won't then that's fine also. It's not a concept toon build so I'm not worried about having or not having certain powers from secondary or having laser eyes or not. Think I'm running the 75% chance for DoT atm also. Hope I didn't forget any helpful information yu might need. Thanks in advance!!!
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Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(5)
Level 1: Jab -- C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(A)
Level 2: True Grit -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(7), ResDam-I(7), ResDam-I(9), Heal-I(9)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(15), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(17), Mako-Dam%(19)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(19), DefBuff-I(21)
Level 8: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(23), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(25), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(25), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(27), Mocking-Rchg(27)
Level 12: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Kick -- Mako-Dmg/Rchg(A)
Level 18: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(29), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), UbrkCons-Dam%(33)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(34), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Heal-I(42)
Level 35: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Build%(40)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(43), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(43), FrcFbk-Rechg%(43)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(45)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(46), P'Shift-EndMod(45), P'Shift-End%(45), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(46), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(46)
Level 47: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Dam%(48), FrcFbk-Rechg%(50)
Level 49: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(11), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(13)
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The attack chain I used was Jab -- KO Blow -- Jab -- Haymaker -- Jab -- Energy Torrent -- Jab -- Haymaker.
Just note, whenever you're double raged, you are likely going to be at your damage cap. Rage gives you 160%, enhancements and Musculature alpha will give you 125%, AAO gives you 15.5% when you have 1 enemy near you (So now you're at cap), and assault would give you another 10.5% (Only useful when not at double rage or if you don't use Musculature).
So for double rage, this chain will net you:
DPS: 257.3 (Not as optimal of a chain as I showcased before, obviously, but Gloom does that... plus the build I made was softcapped so I didn't focus as much on recharge)
I lost the other numbers, but I am quite sure it was a drop off of about 30 DPS when you have only one rage up.
I'm sorry I lost the numbers, I'll look into recalculating it for you, but from what I can tell the above chain should be adequate for you. If you get more recharge you'll be able to use Haymaker and KO Blow more often which are your heaviest hitters for your build. So look into doing that for your build. If necessary, just sack musculature for spiritual if you plan on going for double rage as often as possible. You'll still cap, and getting double rage and your other attacks sooner will only improve your desired DPS.
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Originally Posted by Caulderone
I like Scorch-Incinerate-Scorch-FireBlast for a "no swords" approach.
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Anyways, here are your numbers:
Final DPS: 213.92
Better than pure fire melee, but not as good as gloom. If you use Melt Armor, you can probably get there though. For those 40 seconds you'll get roughly a 10% boost to your DPS... which is about 15-20 DPS in this case.
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Originally Posted by DeathHarvester
Since you seem to enjoy doing these so much, and I have no idea how ;-p
I've got another tanker combo that I play a bit if you want to give it a showing, it's a Fire/Dark tank, just curious how burn will affect the DPS if it'll make it better or worse. Right now I'm running pyre mastery with my tank and I don't have any of the incarnate powers on him, he's on my second account but I'm starting to like playing him more and more so I might have to roll another one on my main account, not sure how long I'll keep my second account VIP. Seen the /stone DPS, and that one of the primaries you suggested was ice. Glad you showed that, Ice/Stone is the tank I'm currently leveling now, so it'll keep me from asking when I get ready to do his final build heh. Thanks again! |
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I didn't have any particular chain in mind, I was just commenting on the fact that every chain you had posted so far included Gloom.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I WAS curious about something. Could you calculate the average DPS of Shadow Punch, slotted with 2 level 50 Acc/Dam/Rech IOs, 1 Dam/Rech and Cloud Senses: Chance for NE Damage, Touch of Death Chance: for NE Damage, and Hecatomb: Chance for NE Damage? I had an idea I wanted to try out. Remember that Shadow Punch will be keeping a permanent 20% -Res debuff on my opponent. I was considering slotting Reactive Interface 50% -res/50% Chance for DoT. I was curious as to whether it would be possible to AFK solo an AV by putting Shadow Punch on autofire. To that end I may slot the -regen Interface instead. The tank in question is a Shield/DM, so he'll be getting a 15% damage boost from AAO as well. Was shooting for at least a tier 3 Spiritual Alpha to round it all out. |
Your attack chain would be just Shadow Punch, so the chain duration would be 0.83+recharge time. Your chain damage would be whatever your damage shows up as in Mids, then add 50.1 to it (make sure you do NOT have reactive selected in mids, the numbers aren't right). There you go, you now have what you need to calculate your DPS before debuffs. Then you will calculate the number of attacks you will do in 8.3 seconds. Likely a recharge of 0.9 can be expected, so your chain duration would be 1.73 seconds. That's 4.8 attacks in that span. You will want to use a resistance debuff of about 22.8% after reactive and bruising. So take your DPS and multiply it by 1.228. This will be your DPS after debuffs. Now to incorporate your misses, multiply your DPS by 0.95. Done, you just calculated your DPS for your AFK AV Killa. Now you said you were a shield? You will want to factor that into your DPS, so turn AAO and Assault on in Mids when you get your SP Damage.
After right all that, I realized I might as well do it myself. Here you go.
Slotting: I used Hecatomb's ACC/DMG/RCH, DMG/RCH, and Crushing Impact's ACC/DMG/RCH. And I used the DMG procs you suggested.
Using T4 Musculature, I have the following damage (with AAO and assault, too):
SP Damage: 156.7 + 50.1 = 206.8.
Assume recharge of 1 seconds (requires 200% recharge, which is very high. And you won't be able to click hasten while AFK).
Chain duration: 1.83 seconds.
Res debuffs: 22.7%
DPS before debuffs = 113.00
DPS after debuffs = 138.66
DPS after misses = 131.72
If I recall right, AVs have a regeneration rate of 94.24 HP/second. So the net of 37.48 DPS per second (assuming the AV has no resistances) will require you to take 28271.7/37.48 = 754.21 seconds... or 12 minutes and 35 seconds. You're probably better off having a damage toggle than AAO, in this case. Also, you won't be able to click your Active Defense. So you may want to slot for KB protection... if the AV is known for that. Actually, just hope the AV has no mez or KB or defense debuffs in general, then you should be ok.
Edit: I somehow forgot to factor in Reactive, I knew the numbers didn't look right. Corrected the info above. Long days looking at numbers, I guess.
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I already knew Reactive is better. And I already explained why I'm not using it: I stick to my concepts, even if there is a more powerful option. Setting people on fire doesn't match my concept, at all. |
Originally Posted by MagicFlyingHippy
Diamagnetic Radial Flawless has a 100% chance to apply its debuff. That debuff lasts 8.3 seconds, applies -15% regen, and stacks up to 4 times.
An AV at level 50 regenerates 94.239 hp/second, and has a debuff resistance of 85%. Your sum debuff per application will thus be 15% of 15%, or 2.25%. Over 8.3 seconds, against a 94.239 hp/second base, that means each Diamagnetic application will be worth 17.6 HP. That's not *bad*, adding 17 damage per activation - that's more than the Touch of Death proc is worth, on average - but ... each application of Reactive Radial Flawless is worth 50.1 damage, before the -resist of Reactive. Reactive is better. |
Now, would the -HP in Degenerative Interface be useful in an AV fight? Particularly the side that has the Toxic DoT. It still deals extra damage, and I've heard nothing about AVs resisting -HP debuffs, since I'm pretty sure it's a brand new mechanic. It will effectively reduce their regeneration, since it is HP based, and it will make it so you have to do less total damage to win (assuming you can keep it consistently applied). If I go for a DoT applying interface, it will be that one or the Negative energy DoT of Spectral (though the immobilization for 2 seconds will be useless). I can hand wave the toxic damage easier than lighting my enemy on fire.
I may actually begin working on unlocking Degenerative with a couple of my other characters as well......specifically my GM soloing defender and my BS/DA scrapper. Definitely worth looking into I think.
Edit: and thanks boppaholic.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
If we throw a purple damage proc in Scorch and include the Tier 3 Reactive (or Spectral, or Preemptive) Interface DoT, then the number rises to 168.91 DPS.
Scorch-GFS-Scorch-Incinerate is 315.9 base damage over 6.732 seconds, for 46.93 DPS (ignoring misses). With 95% ED-compliant damage slotting, that number climbs to 91.5 DPS. With Bruising's debuff factored in, we're looking at 109.8 DPS.
If we throw a purple damage proc in Scorch and include the Tier 3 Interface DoT, the number rises to 158.11 DPS.
It's not a major difference either way, but as your build piles on more procs and more damage bonuses (as bopphaholic seems to prefer), the gap will widen in absolute if not proportional terms.
I'm not an expert on Fiery Melee (though I have been considering a new FM Tanker), and it's possible I made a mistake somewhere. Before I plugged the numbers into my spreadsheet I thought the GFS chain would win at the outset, but probably lose w/ Hecatomb + Interface. Turns out to my surprise that GFS is worse from the get-go, though not by much. Anyway, to the extent that you can conclude anything from the numbers above, I think it's fair to say that if you plan to use IO and Interface procs, you should be wary of longer-animating powers, almost regardless of their damage.
Or perhaps it's fairer to say that longer-animating powers bear a second look, at least in a long-term DPS context. In regular content, against low-hp targets, you may well be better off with GFS. (Incinerate + GFS will very nearly two-shot a +0 minon @ level 50 with typical damage slotting. All you need is another 0.9% in damage buffs, whether from overslotting or global bonuses. The difference between two and three-shotting minions doesn't show up well on paper, but it's a pretty significant qualitative difference.)