Call me Crazy but the Fire DOT with Fire ammo seems to take much longer than Fire's DOT...like crazy long...can I say crazy one more time?
The problem with Dual Pistols is that it's a gimmick set whose gimmick contributes nothing to the set. You'll spend almost all of the game using plain ammo, and even when you do swap it up, you'll only use Incendiary. It's also a weak AoE set until 33, when you can slot Hail of Bullets. The biggest problem is that because it has no distinct gimmick you can build around early, unless you have a strong secondary you will have a miserable time levelling it up. If you take Thermal or Pain particularly your solo play will just be painful.
Knockback isn't a gimmick and the ability to switch to fire ammo is amazing for teams, or wanting extra damage.
Dual Pistols swap ammo feature I feel is a lot better than dual blades combo system that has way more flaws. I wish it freed up a power slot though, but that is a minor quibble.
Definitely making a Dual Pistols/Poison Corruptor now. 
Quote:
...likely while waiting for Executioner Shot animation to finish.
|
Originally Posted by Aneko
I'm playing my Pistols/Time Corruptor as I type this.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Well, when it was released and the math people went over it, they got to the conclusion it was about the same level of Energy Blast's damage on standard ammo... But with longer cast times... And less reliable KB.
So with Fire ammo maybe it does a little more damage than Energy! This time with no mitigation and keeping longer cast times! (suck on that Elec Blast!) |
That's not exactly what I remember. I thought it came in around the level of Energy Blast if you ignore Hail of Bullets. HoB may be worse than Rain of Arrows, but the value of a crashless nuke is hard to rate, since there are only three of them. HoB has a longer recharge than Full Auto but a higher target cap.
I played the Oedipus Tex character to 50 as a Pistols/Dark and the main drawback for me was just all of the redraw. I think any of the weapon sets would have driven me crazy with that.
Anyway, it's not exactly true that you its either knockback or damage but not both. I tended to quickly switch between the two a lot. Knockback turned on for a difficult boss, turned off after. It really did make a difference in DPS because I would never accidentally blow enemies out of clusters. IMO Energy Blast has it much worse than Dual Pistols just because it has to hold back so many of its attacks to prevent scatter.
However, I do generally agree that the attacks are needlessly slow. The entire set feels like the animation speed should just be doubled. An overall fix for redraw would also do wonders for it.
Quote:
I wish I could find the thread, Umbral did the numbers long ago. I think that the DPS was about the same as NRG with fire ammo but that's just a guess.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
That's not exactly what I remember. I thought it came in around the level of Energy Blast if you ignore Hail of Bullets. HoB may be worse than Rain of Arrows, but the value of a crashless nuke is hard to rate, since there are only three of them. HoB has a longer recharge than Full Auto but a higher target cap.
I played the Oedipus Tex character to 50 as a Pistols/Dark and the main drawback for me was just all of the redraw. I think any of the weapon sets would have driven me crazy with that. Anyway, it's not exactly true that you its either knockback or damage but not both. I tended to quickly switch between the two a lot. Knockback turned on for a difficult boss, turned off after. It really did make a difference in DPS because I would never accidentally blow enemies out of clusters. IMO Energy Blast has it much worse than Dual Pistols just because it has to hold back so many of its attacks to prevent scatter. However, I do generally agree that the attacks are needlessly slow. The entire set feels like the animation speed should just be doubled. An overall fix for redraw would also do wonders for it. |
Anyway it's a middle of the road set in terms of damage. But as you said the animations are crazy long, that's why I deleted my dp/fire blaster and made a dp/dark corr which I like a lot. The problem with the Blaster version (for me) were both the animation times and the fact that I had to enter melee to use HoB (another long animation). Also the set didn't make me feel like I was killing things fast at least on a Blaster like all the blasters I rolled felt since the low levels, but that may be subjective. I don't mind redraw (except on outliers like the BR/Poison I got to 30 - man reapplying the debuffs every 5 secs drove me crazy, and BR looks like it has a bit of a delay when delivering the damage, and add the Disintegrate gimmick plus redraw all the time, it was unbearable for me). I find /Dark very good for DP because it's very safe to use the nuke and ES even while leveling on SOs/basic IOs. Then again with /dark even a fire blast toon is safer than most other combos.
I agree with you on Energy Blast. I like the damage, I like that the animations are fast, I also enjoy the animations but the only NRG blast toon I managed to enjoy was a hover blaster, the KB interferes too much with most set's debuffs on a corr and even on a blaster I didn't want to take a melee heavy secondary since energy has a very nice attack chain with 3 blasts, 2 fast AoEs and I make good use of power push.
I think DP with shortened animations on empty clips and HoB would be a very nice set (I already like it now but I paired with a very safe secondary like you).
Empty clips is not skippable though right?
Only having one non nuke AoE blows.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Quote:
I've seem min/max builds skip it, probably because they got HoB to 'every mob' status, but it's actually a good cone.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Empty clips is not skippable though right?
Only having one non nuke AoE blows. |
On my Blaster I hated it because of the cast time and DoT (it felt like I was tickling mobs till I saw the numbers, but the cast time was killer for me on a squishy blaster), I like it on my corr.
The closest power I could find to it is Psy Scream.
Corr numbers from Mid's because I'm lazy to add up all the DoT from City of Data:
Empty Clips at 50: 43.38 dmg, 10 sec rech, 30 degree arc, 40 feet range. 2.5 sec cast time.
Psy Scream: 43.38 dmg, 12 sec rech, 30 degrees, 60 feet. 2.67 sec cast time.
Bullet Rain does a little less damage (almost the same in corrs tho) and has a 18 sec recharge. Also since I don't know how to change ammo type in Mid's, these are lethal ammo numbers, so they're actually higher than that with fire.
I use empty clips solely for the chance to apply the -RES proc of Achilles heel. The dmg it does (small) is a bonus.
I am having a blast playing a DP/Psi Blaster. I can solo a +2/+8 AE missions with no problem at lvl 44. I have never played a DP corrupter so I dont know if there is a big difference in damage.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Didnt like DP, it feels inferior to AR,Archer and Beam.
Though in different ways.
They need to do an animation and damage go over of the set.
Go archery or AR for aoe or beam for single target.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
DP is fine actually in terms of damage. If you're comparing to Fire than yes, it's lower (but everything is lower than fire). DP is like Dark Blast: Has good utility combined with moderate damage. Toxic ammo is one of the very few sources of consistent -damage.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
Everyone who says Duel Pistols is good........they lie.
I just got mine to 51 and I was doin lvl 50 missions and to kill a lvl 50 CoT Lieutenant it took me about 8 hits, evan using Executioner's Shot.
Long animation + low damage = bad
Only thing that is a big good is the AoE nuke Hail of Bullets
There are sets in this game that were not made for performance, but for thematic reasons. I place Dual Pistols clearly into this niche, along with others like Trick Arrow and Gravity.
You take it because you have a great idea for a costume that will show off the animations. You don't take it for performance. Anyone who claims that is simply denying the truth of the set.
But when it does come to animations...you are either going to love them or hate them. Personally, I love the whole "Gun-Kata" thing. You aren't doing a lot of damage but you get major style points while doing it at least.
Quote:
I wouldn't say people are lying, just the perspective of what is good might be different. |
Originally Posted by PowerOfRA
Everyone who says Duel Pistols is good........they lie.
I just got mine to 51 and I was doin lvl 50 missions and to kill a lvl 50 CoT Lieutenant it took me about 8 hits, evan using Executioner's Shot. Long animation + low damage = bad Only thing that is a big good is the AoE nuke Hail of Bullets |
I do agree that DP needs more attacks to kill something off though. Maybe not 8, but more.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
only level 37 dp/dark corr level 35 dp/ice blaster...blaster kills red minions in 2 shots but i dont use my secondary however on my corr (which im finding really fun) i use my secondary alot but im killing groups (minions orange reds)
start out fear.. hail of bullet..(genrally half health) then Executioner's shot on each if need be Dual Wield
if fear resistant Suppressive Fire + darkest night
so long as i can hit im fine (had trouble with some level 53 nems but that was more cause they were +4 to me and due to level they did take afew hits to kill but i wouldnt normally face +4s by choice
bosses require more but with 2 holds there not a problem
only attack i have a problem with is Piercing Rounds if i manage to hit 2 targets its a miracle with out lining them up perfectily hardily use it on my corr but my blaster uses it as a ST attack (throwing the guns in the air is dumb but ive never face planted while doing it)
and
im in love with hail of bullets animation....
each time i use it i follow the animation and not the damage its doing
*edited to add i wonder if the reason people think it sucks is cause of the secondary?
Quote:
Everything depends on Secondary set. But for some reason people want to compare a DP/MM blaster to a DP/Dark blaster. It just does not make sense. If I use soul drain on my dp dark and I hit a bunch of mobs with soul drain and then fire off hail of bullets I am going to kill a bunch of mobs. Further for that short time I have that buff I am 1 shotting 1 white cons and 2 shotting yellow cons with SOs. |
Originally Posted by morbious
only level 37 dp/dark corr level 35 dp/ice blaster...blaster kills red minions in 2 shots but i dont use my secondary however on my corr (which im finding really fun) i use my secondary alot but im killing groups (minions orange reds)
start out fear.. hail of bullet..(genrally half health) then Executioner's shot on each if need be Dual Wield if fear resistant Suppressive Fire + darkest night so long as i can hit im fine (had trouble with some level 53 nems but that was more cause they were +4 to me and due to level they did take afew hits to kill but i wouldnt normally face +4s by choice bosses require more but with 2 holds there not a problem only attack i have a problem with is Piercing Rounds if i manage to hit 2 targets its a miracle with out lining them up perfectily hardily use it on my corr but my blaster uses it as a ST attack (throwing the guns in the air is dumb but ive never face planted while doing it) and im in love with hail of bullets animation.... each time i use it i follow the animation and not the damage its doing *edited to add i wonder if the reason people think it sucks is cause of the secondary? |
As far as piercing round goes. What I find that works is you walk backwards and the mobs tend to line up. Again assuming you can. But when you can it works. Again with my soul drain working I try to line up a few mobs with Piercing round when I can to kill a few off.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
DP isn't terrible, but it's not great either. The damage is average compared to other blast sets. It's in line with dark, rad, elec and such. The real problem is the animation times. The animations for the set look great, but they're REALLY long. Combine that with mediocre damage, and the set just feels weak. And you have redraw to deal with.
If DP is what you crave but you aren't really pleased with the damage, then just take a secondary that helps to increase it somewhat. DP/Rad is a pretty good combo, as is DP/Kin. Both have powers that increase your damage and recharge, allowing you to throw more bullets that do more damage at the same time. Nothing says "I rock" more than standing in the middle of bodies with two smoking barrels.
The best thing about DP is Hail of Bullets. It's a crashless nuke that on most teams you can use every spawn. It's got the same recharge as the defender version of soul drain, so you can use them in tandom very nicely.
All the other powers are flashy and look nice, but as a whole are similar to attacks you would find in any other set.
For this reason, I actually prefer the set on Defenders, as they can still take full advantage of the hail of bullets to soften up a spawn for the team, then go back to focusing on their superior support powers while "looking cool" with an attack every now and then.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Quote:
Hrmm, I might consider making a DP/Dark Blaster now...Soul Drain and HoB+ Bullet Rain.
|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
The best thing about DP is Hail of Bullets. It's a crashless nuke that on most teams you can use every spawn. It's got the same recharge as the defender version of soul drain, so you can use them in tandom very nicely.
All the other powers are flashy and look nice, but as a whole are similar to attacks you would find in any other set. For this reason, I actually prefer the set on Defenders, as they can still take full advantage of the hail of bullets to soften up a spawn for the team, then go back to focusing on their superior support powers while "looking cool" with an attack every now and then. |
Quote:
Plus Death Shroud.
|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Hrmm, I might consider making a DP/Dark Blaster now...Soul Drain and HoB+ Bullet Rain.
|
@Roderick
Quote:
Ah! Spot on! Right man. Thanks.
|
Originally Posted by Roderick
Plus Death Shroud.
|
I feel like I have learned absolutely nothing from the experience.
So with Fire ammo maybe it does a little more damage than Energy! This time with no mitigation and keeping longer cast times!
(suck on that Elec Blast!)