Invuln VS Super reflexes
A small update on my SR tanker; last night I was playing with a friend's StJ/Energy Armor brute and noticed a disturbing trend. I was first into melee and had the mobs clumped tight then he'd attack and I'd immediately loose about half the spawn. I've NEVER seen that happen with an Invuln tanker and I conclude that the SR taunt aura must have gotten the Willpower treatment; it doesn't appear to hold aggro well.
After a couple of missions I grabbed my StJ/Invuln scrapper and had no difficulty holding aggro from my buddy. Mid's claims MAG 4 on SR's aura... seems like the Dev's set it's duration extremely low. I do notice Mid's mentions a 1 second duration for Evasion (the taunt aura/AOE def toggle) and a 0.75 second duration for the other toggles. If that's true then SR is actually worse than WP for aggro.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Another way to think about it to is this. SR has slow resistance (which is wonderful) and faster movement with Quickness. Inv has 2 "oh noes" buttons, Dull Pain as many have mentioned, but don't forget Unstoppable (yeah the crash is nasty).
I have an Inv tanker and a SR scrapper. The SR can do insane things, but it really only takes a few bad rolls to wonder why I am in the hospital. That can happen with Inv, but you usually see it coming from Psi damage, so you can try and avoid/prepare for it. I like both advantages to be honest. ![]() Edit: I haven't had my tank in a trial yet, honestly haven't touched him much since IO sets came out (going to soon though), but on my SR in trials I find myself at 87%-ish a lot to all positions, at least once I was 153% to all. That being said, and depending on the members of the League, Inv is going to gain a lot more from buffs in trial, imo anyway. |
For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry about getting the Incarnate soft cap on any character. With the buffs flying around my /Invuln Scrapper is almost always sitting at around 80% to S/L/E/N/F/C and has a lot of Resistance to the same stuff. Not to mention he is usually regenerating about 80 HPS and sometimes over twice that as he hits the Scrapper regen cap when a big group of Rebirths go off all at once. Seeing as you won't need 59% defense outside of situations like this and will have better numbers than a Scrapper anyway, it's not a big deal.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

Well, I tried SR and so far I'm loving it. I joined an Admiral Sutter TF a few days ago at level 22, SK'd to level 40, and managed to hold the aggro on BOTH Duray's on my own - only died twice.
Funny thing is, we had another tank along to help, but the little b**ch had an uppity fit and left us in Skyway after causing our debuffer to ragequit the TF... With 6 people and only my Tank as a Melee, it took us 25 minutes to finish the TF, but damn, I never felt more heroic ! Frankly, I amazed myself with how survivable this set combo is. May not be "Master of" material, but definitely a fast and fun ride !
As a counterpoint to the "you get buffs in itrials", I'd like to say that as someone generally playing quick, although not overly so, I almost never get buffed to the extent that I consistently go from normal softcap to incarnate softcap in certain parts of the trials. Initial warworks phase and pulling Nightstar/Siege in BAF, pretty much everything in Lambda up to the final fight, pretty much everything in Keyes up to the final fight.
Taking the aggro first and fast can be important and helpful, letting squishies who are as fast start doing their own thing instead of having to wait for some slower-paced people (... as well as preventing the squishies who *will* start their own thing anyway to scatter everything to the four winds with a freezing rain or something and no other means of taunt/slow/immobilize) ; and in a league, at least the numerous PuG leagues I've been in, there's huge inertia, people all standing around looking at each other until someone finally decides to move in after 10, 15, 20, sometimes 30 seconds.
With that mindset and playstyle I've seen a significant difference between 59% def and merely ~45-50%. My incarnate softcapped SR brute had significantly higher survivability than all my other alts even starting out without level shifts.
This is a subject people rarely look at for survivability. If 2 characters have capped defenses to the same damage types/positions, and no other form of survivability other than HP differences (smaller here since SR has no +hp powers), then kill speed on your part means more survivability because they have less time to put you down.
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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
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A small update on my SR tanker; last night I was playing with a friend's StJ/Energy Armor brute and noticed a disturbing trend. I was first into melee and had the mobs clumped tight then he'd attack and I'd immediately loose about half the spawn. I've NEVER seen that happen with an Invuln tanker and I conclude that the SR taunt aura must have gotten the Willpower treatment; it doesn't appear to hold aggro well.
After a couple of missions I grabbed my StJ/Invuln scrapper and had no difficulty holding aggro from my buddy. Mid's claims MAG 4 on SR's aura... seems like the Dev's set it's duration extremely low. I do notice Mid's mentions a 1 second duration for Evasion (the taunt aura/AOE def toggle) and a 0.75 second duration for the other toggles. If that's true then SR is actually worse than WP for aggro. |
My guess is it's a bug and not intentional.
Quick look at it in City of Daata shows that it is indeed only 1s taunt. Specifically, it's a scale 1 taunt using the "Melee_Ones" table. Most other auras have scale 1 taunts but use the Melee_InherentTaunt table. The Brute version uses Melee_InherentTaunt, too.
My guess is it's a bug and not intentional. |
Still, I'll bug it in game next time I'm on that character and hope for a fix to it.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I would hope so, but I'm reminded that we thought much the same when WP came out and we noticed it's taunt aura... or more to the point lack of same.
Still, I'll bug it in game next time I'm on that character and hope for a fix to it. |
This is a subject people rarely look at for survivability. If 2 characters have capped defenses to the same damage types/positions, and no other form of survivability other than HP differences (smaller here since SR has no +hp powers), then kill speed on your part means more survivability because they have less time to put you down.
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Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
It's also why there should have been different defense caps for different ATs, as that does make a difference. I was actually startled when Castle admitted that different def caps should have been done back in I8 or I9, but that it was too late to do so "now" (now being a couple years ago or so from today, and it being too late since people were used to the "45%" for all and would have pissed too many peopl off). I really wish they had done this... we probably wouldn't see Praetorian mobs with so much extra to hit, and things would be more nicely balanced between ATs. But oh well.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=256213

True, at least SR'll let me try out some other sets than the good ol' Thunderstrike and Gaussian. :-) I think I'll try that and see how I like it.
Thanks all for the feedback, much appreciated. Definitely got food for thoughts there. |
Three sets of four Reactive Armour
Two sets of three Aegis
One Steadfast Protection +Def
Invincibility, Tough Hide, Combat Jumping, and Weave all slotted with 54.16% Defense enhancement.
And Storm Kick.
And that'll get you to the Incarnate Soft-cap with ten enemies in range.
That's true solo, but Tanks are normally team ATs so really the most important things are the ability to take an alpha and the ability to keep tough enemies focused on you. SR Tanks will be more vulnerable than most because if the RNG doesn't like them on the initial alpha they're going to be in danger of being finished off by a lucky boss hit. Decent healing or some resist buffs from the team will help of course, but I can see SR tanks breezing through most spawns with little trouble and then having some very nervous moments on others... most other Tankers are going to be more consistent on how much damage they take so SR Tankers may annoy Empaths more than most.
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One way to help mitigate the Alpha on a SR tanker would be to get one of the teleport AoE attacks - since SD is out, that would leave Electric Melee or the new T5 Leaping Pool power (and CJ would go great with SR...) Jump in, knockdown, mop up.

Quick look at it in City of Daata shows that it is indeed only 1s taunt. Specifically, it's a scale 1 taunt using the "Melee_Ones" table. Most other auras have scale 1 taunts but use the Melee_InherentTaunt table. The Brute version uses Melee_InherentTaunt, too.
My guess is it's a bug and not intentional. |


Another way to think about it to is this. SR has slow resistance (which is wonderful) and faster movement with Quickness. Inv has 2 "oh noes" buttons, Dull Pain as many have mentioned, but don't forget Unstoppable (yeah the crash is nasty).

I have an Inv tanker and a SR scrapper. The SR can do insane things, but it really only takes a few bad rolls to wonder why I am in the hospital. That can happen with Inv, but you usually see it coming from Psi damage, so you can try and avoid/prepare for it.
I like both advantages to be honest.
Edit: I haven't had my tank in a trial yet, honestly haven't touched him much since IO sets came out (going to soon though), but on my SR in trials I find myself at 87%-ish a lot to all positions, at least once I was 153% to all. That being said, and depending on the members of the League, Inv is going to gain a lot more from buffs in trial, imo anyway.
Protector: Tulare 50 Inv/SS/EM-ph1x3r 47 Bots/Traps
VIP: VIC-29(Traps/AR) - Corinth(Grav/FF) -Wrecka(Claws/SR)