Invuln VS Super reflexes

Hey folks !

I'm considering a new Tanker now that we got more goodies to play with. The proliferated Martial Arts set looks tasty, since I want to do a natural, no-weapons kinda tanker. That part's pretty much set. Now, I'm split between good old Invulnerability and Super Reflexes.

I know both are pretty much opposite - one is almost pure defense, the other almost pure resistance. However, there are similarities - they both use some layered mitigation (SR with the scaling resistance in the passive powers, Invul with the defense boost of its taunt aura), both have a Psy hole you could drive a truck through, and both seem highly specialized in their branch but acknowledge the existence of the other side. They both look like they'd fit both my concept and my craving for survivability.

So since I never played either (and since City of Data is down. ) I'd love to some feedback from people familiar with either/both sets to help me make up my mind. And before anyone suggests it, Willpower is out of the competition, sorry.

Look at Invulns weaknesses, SR should either be somewhere as weak to some way stronger. SR is stronger in the fact it responds so well to positional attacks and its position is of less importance. Attack chains that can be done in melee will always be stronger than attack chains that can be done at ranged. I'd choose based on the secondary if I could go either way with the primary. If you're doing something like KM then the time to go SR maybe now.

Without doubt Invulnerability. Super Reflexes brings you to the 'softcap' (45% defences) with only Combat Jumping and SOs, meaning the awesome boost from Storm Kick is mostly wasted on the set. Invulnerability, on the other hand, really enjoys the additional defence, letting you softcap on SOs with moderate Invincibility saturation if you take some defence toggles - this in addition to the 90% S/L resistance the set just about guarantees, and the built-in heal and health increase of Dull Pain. The reliability and multi-tier mitigation of Invulnerability should be much more powerful for the vast majority of the game.

As others have said here. In terms of layered mitigation, Invulnerability comes out on top here. Especially if the time, effort, and inf is taken to softcap.

All SR has going for it is Defense. And while that's good, Defense has one fatal flaw. If something manages to bypass defense an hit you, you take damage. So lucky shots can wreck you, and enemies sporting +ToHit buffs and/or stacking -Defense debuffs will just ruin your day. Damage becomes an all-or-nothing proposition.

Whereas, with Invuln, you have:

1. The chance to avoid the damage completely: Defense.
2. The chance to only take a fraction of the damage that actually lands: Resistance
3. And at worst, the ability to heal the damage that is actually taken.

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Interesting approaches. But doesn't SR also have layered mitigation through its scaling res? That's the part I'm unsure about, because even if it kicks in late, it appears that with all three auto powers, one can get pretty hefty res to all types on top of the ungodly defense... Am I reading that wrong? Also wouldn't SR be easier to softcap in the iTrials?

There's also with SR tank being so easy to softcap, its easier devote all your IOs for other things, like +hp and +recharge.

Most Psi attacks have a position, so when it comes to overall Psi SR is the better set (even without scaling resist for Psi). Some very annoying things like Carnie Ring Mistress' Mask of Vitiation is Ranged, so you'll be eating that on Invulnerability but avoiding it more often than not on SR.

That said, Invulnerability has more upward potential and can be considered an all-around stronger set. SR, being the Golden Fox, gets to a midpoint very quickly but then stays there, where Invulnerability will be squishier early in its career but outpace SR ultimately.

Because random is random, there will be times where an Invulnerability Tanker will go down but the SR Tanker will keep on going. The beauty of the set to me is it is so often more than the sum of its parts. Of course, you will also face the opposite situation. Random is random.

And getting softcapped on SOs is really a treat. Leaves all your IO bonuses open for things like +HP, Regen, you name it. You're much freer with your IOing options than you are with Invulnerability.

And hey, SR is new to Tankers. You've probably played Tanker Invulnerability already, maybe even a lot. SR is a brand new experience.

Both sets are solid, I like them both a lot (though SR is my favorite, Invulnerability is a comic book classic and a great set too). You really can't go wrong choosing one or the other. Take SR if you want something new and different. Invulnerability if you want maximum upward potential and a bit more ruggedness.

WARNING: I bold names.

True, at least SR'll let me try out some other sets than the good ol' Thunderstrike and Gaussian. :-) I think I'll try that and see how I like it.

Thanks all for the feedback, much appreciated. Definitely got food for thoughts there.

Here's my take on it from the perspective of both a top end Invuln/Stone tanker and a young (25 at the moment) SR/MA tanker.

First, in the very low levels the SR/MA absolutely spanks any other tank I've ever played in durability... by level 4 you can be in the mid-30's to melee/range and the soft cap to all is easily obtainable by the mid-teens.

As it matures I'd anticipate it being roughly equivalent to Shield; a nice set and quite durable but considerably below a mature, IO'd Invuln. The reason for this is both SR and Shield can easily hit the 45% soft cap (SR easier than Shield of course) but neither has the resistance, HP or heal that Invuln can bring to the party.

I have a mature 50 Shield tanker and I've run most of the game's content on him. He's good, but my Invuln is simply better. I expect much the same out of my SR/MA once he grows up, a good competent tank but not up to the level of my Invuln.

Now with that said that SR/MA will be considerably less expensive to IO out and if you're comparing pure SO level performance it's probably a lot closer to the Invuln. It's only when you soft cap the Invuln that it gets so much better; on SO's they're probably not far different.

I have great love for /SR, but I'm hesitant to play it on a tanker.

In beta for freedom, I made a level bumped 50 SR/MA (a mirror of my original MA/SR scrapper), fully slotted out with the top end IO's including purples, and I was not impressed.

I ran side by side tests vs various high end threats such as the back stretch in RWZ, pylons, and running the Cimm wall, a few maxed out tip missions (malta, carnies, etc), and some other random stuff.

The tanker was actually less survivable than the scrapper, as the scrapper would annihilate mobs much faster. The less time the mobs have to swing at you, the less time the random number generator has to screw you.


Now, a different melee set might find SR/ more durable on a tank, but I wont be making a SR/ tanker anytime soon. Invul on the other hand is quite durable.

YMMV; good luck.

One more piece of information came my way while playing last night : the so called "incarnate softcap" (that's what they called it). Could someone explain this concept to me?

The base to-hit of critters in incarnate trials is greater than 50%...I think it's 64%. So, to be softcapped vs. iCritters, you need 59% defense.

I finally reworked my ice/fire tank to be iSoftcapped vs. s/l/e/n this past week, along with max HP and 59% global recharge. I have yet to bring him into any trials to test it out, but I'm looking forward to it. Waiting for the new 21.5 to drop to work him into the Agility alpha.

So in regard of iTrials, SR would be far easier to globally softcap (position-wise) than pretty much any other set, correct?

Invulnerability by far for tankers. If you were a scrapper I may lean towards SR.