Footstomp needs to have both its damage and its radius reduced.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
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Do NOT touch Footstomps radius.|
Originally Posted by ZephyrWind
Footstomp needs to have both its damage and its radius reduced.
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That's my opinion at least.
The answer is yes.
The tradeoff would be the already mentioned nerfs to footstomp.
Prepare for a boatload of people to enter this thread claiming that footstomp is not OP.
Take anything they say with a grain of salt.
Actually take everything said on the internet with a grain of salt. Everybody has their own bias.
Me...I love SS and don't think it needs any changes. The numbers I have seen support that feeling in my eyes.
Tis my salt...good on frenchfries.
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In light of the change to the name of this game, I think we need to call them Freedom Fries.....
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Originally Posted by Calash
Tis my salt...good on frenchfries.
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The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by zephyrwind
footstomp needs to have both its damage and its radius reduced.
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From my cold dead unstrapped ****-kicker boots!
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Really? |
Originally Posted by ZephyrWind
Footstomp needs to have both its damage and its radius reduced.
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Well then, if that is done, then reduce all the damage capability of all foes by say....75%. Ridiculous? Sure. However, so is changing Foot Stomp.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
I honesty don't see them changing Foot stomp very much.
Remember that buff they did to Ice melee? that basically turned Frozen Aura into a cold damage foot stomp, complete with a damage type that is less resisted.
What makes Foot stomp so nice isn't Foot stomp itself, its Rage, and double and triple stacking it, basically allowing a tanker to walk around at their damage cap all the time. That what makes Foot stomp so nasty.
(for reference, Foot stomp does 63.17 smashing damage, in a 15ft radius recharging in 20 seconds with a 80% chance for .67KB, Frozen Aura does 63.17 cold damage, in a 10ft radius, recharging in 20 seconds, with a 100% chance for mag 2 sleep)
The radius is a little higher on foot stomp, but the smashing vs cold damage allows frozen aura to keep up damage wise.
Footstomp and Hand Clap average out to make two balanced attacks.
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You hit on the point I was about to make: being damage type. S/L is the most resisted type in the game.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
I honesty don't see them changing Foot stomp very much.
Remember that buff they did to Ice melee? that basically turned Frozen Aura into a cold damage foot stomp, complete with a damage type that is less resisted. What makes Foot stomp so nice isn't Foot stomp itself, its Rage, and double and triple stacking it, basically allowing a tanker to walk around at their damage cap all the time. That what makes Foot stomp so nasty. (for reference, Foot stomp does 63.17 smashing damage, in a 15ft radius recharging in 20 seconds with a 80% chance for .67KB, Frozen Aura does 63.17 cold damage, in a 10ft radius, recharging in 20 seconds, with a 100% chance for mag 2 sleep) The radius is a little higher on foot stomp, but the smashing vs cold damage allows frozen aura to keep up damage wise. |
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I disagree. The 15' radius is a much bigger advantage than smashing vs cold damage. That extra 5' increases the area by 2.25 times (314 ft^2 vs 707 ft^2).|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
What makes Foot stomp so nice isn't Foot stomp itself, its Rage, and double and triple stacking it, basically allowing a tanker to walk around at their damage cap all the time. That what makes Foot stomp so nasty.
(for reference, Foot stomp does 63.17 smashing damage, in a 15ft radius recharging in 20 seconds with a 80% chance for .67KB, Frozen Aura does 63.17 cold damage, in a 10ft radius, recharging in 20 seconds, with a 100% chance for mag 2 sleep) The radius is a little higher on foot stomp, but the smashing vs cold damage allows frozen aura to keep up damage wise. |
The fact Foot Stomp is in the same set as Rage just exasperates the issue.
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Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu
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Well then, if that is done, then reduce all the damage capability of all foes by say....75%. Ridiculous? Sure. However, so is changing Foot Stomp. |
Frozen Aura follows the formula:
Dmg: 1.42 (63.35)
Rech: 20
End: 18.51
Radius: 10'
Foot Stomp does not (all the same stats, with a radius of 15'). If it were changed to adhere to the formula (radius being constant), it would need to either have its damage reduced to 1.1 scale (48.73) or have its rech/end increased to 26.59s / 24 end.
Note: I'm only stating facts, not any of my opinions regarding Foot Stomp.
This thread was ABSOLUTELY NOT about whether Footstomp needs a nerf or not.
It was about whether or not you would want Footstomp to be changed to compensate for the HYPOTHETICAL suggestion of making Haymaker a Cone Attack.
Honestly I have no interest in Haymaker being a cone, or anything outside of what it is now. It is a good ST attack that fits well between jabs and before a KO blow.
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Don't get me wrong...I mean, I would definitely love to have some AoE for levels 1-37...but I definitely couldn't and wouldn't complain if nothing were to change.
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Originally Posted by Calash
Honestly I have no interest in Haymaker being a cone, or anything outside of what it is now. It is a good ST attack that fits well between jabs and before a KO blow.
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Unfortunately, SS doesn't have that until we acquire FS. Being able to throw huge chunks of the street at a target makes up for not having one. Then again, one can construct a Plasmatic Stunner, using and abusing that for AOE (although it is a cone AOE) until FS is available. I did with my WP/SS Brute. Had a blast doing so. Now, I'll do my FS and flash a PS down range on them adding to the conflaguration! I love it! Moreover, I love SS just the way it is and do not want to see it changed on iota. |
Originally Posted by Variant
Don't get me wrong...I mean, I would definitely love to have some AoE for levels 1-37...but I definitely couldn't and wouldn't complain if nothing were to change.
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Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
SS is going to be changed. The only questions are 'when' and 'how'.
And, I'd argue, it may not necessarily be deserving of a nerf.
The entire set hinges on Rage.
But what would happen if, hypothetically, we were given a Destiny power that offers a very potent +Damage buff?
Suddenly Rage looses a lot it it's allure, especially for many SS Tankers who are already hitting the damage buff cap.
SS's edge compared to other sets would come into question.
"So SS can cap its damage buff? Now Street Justice can too, with the added potential to debuff enemy damage resistance 10-30% with just an Achilles proc."
The fact of the matter is, Rage is broken, but it's the only thing that makes SS worth while. I'm of the opinion that conceptually SS deserves to be punishingly damaging. With stacked Rage it can be; at the cost of chewing a ton of endurance and considerable downtime due to crash. Heaven knows the set's animations don't convey much of a sense of power, IMO.
Despite that, I'm confident SS and Rage's time is coming to an end. Scrappers want it badly and I'm sure the devs will butcher it to give it to them.
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Another fact worth noting is that this AoE formula, although rarely broken in newly implemented sets, is not enforced as strongly as single target attacks. |
Originally Posted by Sarrate
City of Heroes has a power formula that is normally used to create powers. The more damage a power does, the higher the end cost / recharge time. Likewise with the radius (and angle for cones) for AoEs.
Frozen Aura follows the formula: Dmg: 1.42 (63.35) Rech: 20 End: 18.51 Radius: 10' Foot Stomp does not (all the same stats, with a radius of 15'). If it were changed to adhere to the formula (radius being constant), it would need to either have its damage reduced to 1.1 scale (48.73) or have its rech/end increased to 26.59s / 24 end. Note: I'm only stating facts, not any of my opinions regarding Foot Stomp. |
Foot Stomp is not the only exception to the rule.
For the most part the formula is a useful one to use as leverage while asking for a buff, but not while asking for a nerf.
That being said: why would anyone want to change Super Strength in any way?
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Well, with the way Destiny powers work, it probably wouldn't give anywhere close to +160% damage for most of its duration. So it would fall far short of Rage.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
But what would happen if, hypothetically, we were given a Destiny power that offers a very potent +Damage buff?
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Edit: And for the record, I would absolutely not trade a Footstomp nerf for a feeble cone on Haymaker.
Who said it would be feeble? Maybe it'd be awesome, like on Crowd Control!
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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The first post?|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Who said it would be feeble?
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Originally Posted by Variant
Make Haymaker a (3 or 5 target max...depending) cone attack.
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I think it would be better for SS to keep footstomp the way it is even with the tradeoff without footstomp the way it is the set would be Mediocre. But that is just my opinion. 
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It would suck for everyone not Incarnate already. And worse, it'd cripple the set in the mid-range where rage becomes available. Essentially the set would become something nobody would want to exemp on. That's if Rage were simply translated into a Build Up clone. Were such a Destiny power to co-exist with Rage? Yeah, much of the allure at high levels would be lost. And the set would be more media than it is now.| But what would happen if, hypothetically, we were given a Destiny power that offers a very potent +Damage buff? |
To that, I say "So what?"
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| Suddenly Rage looses a lot it it's allure, especially for many SS Tankers who are already hitting the damage buff cap. |
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| The fact of the matter is, Rage is broken, but it's the only thing that makes SS worth while. |
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| I'm of the opinion that conceptually SS deserves to be punishingly damaging. With stacked Rage it can be; at the cost of chewing a ton of endurance and considerable downtime due to crash. Heaven knows the set's animations don't convey much of a sense of power, IMO. |
In this way, the set would start off with it's normal, crummy, mainly resisted damage. But as a fight wore on, even resisted, the effects of getting pounded on would begin to ramp up and the tanker would be doing more and more damage.
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Negative to that.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
IF the set were revamped, it might be a good idea, instead of simply jacking up damage, to apply a stacking damage resistance debuff to each attack.
In this way, the set would start off with it's normal, crummy, mainly resisted damage. But as a fight wore on, even resisted, the effects of getting pounded on would begin to ramp up and the tanker would be doing more and more damage. |
If the idea is to show SS is super strong and super damaging, enabling the StJ or MA (or name the melee set) next to you to do more damage with their attacks defeats the purpose.
If anything, the set should utilize bonus damage. If, for example, Rage granted you bonus damage it would still have a benefit even if every melee set is suddenly hitting the damage cap.
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I really don't think Superstrength needs to be looked at.
Not because I think its OP because I don't nor do I think its underpowered.
Rage just makes up for what would be consistently bad an attack chain without it. Build up wouldn't fix it.
Footstomp at 38 makes up for the bit more sweat from living without an AoE for so long.
Haymaker looks ST.
Several years in why change it now?
Even though you can change one thing and balance the change elsewhere Haymaker looks ST.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I'm assuming that the answer is yes, because I know how good Footstomp is...but I would like to discuss and elaborate on it more.
Is Footstomp too good of an AoE to change Haymaker into a cone attack?
If the answer is yes...
...is there a tradeoff that could be made?
...or would you rather keep Footstomp the way it is?
My thoughts:
Lower Footstomps damage to be in-line with the damage of Punch.
Make Haymaker a (3 or 5 target max...depending) cone attack.