Fairly certain that if a Melee/Support archetype were added (which I am all for) they would just use the existing melee powersets, probably swapping out Taunt/Confront for another power (perhaps the on theme S/L or melee shield).
A momentum type mechanic is also highly unlikely, as the powers for Titan Weapons were built with the mechanic in mind, no other sets were so they would need to be completely rebuilt to use it.
Were I designing the AT, I would start with the following and adjust from there:
0.95-1.0 Melee Damage mod* (melee vs ranged opens you up to more damage and you're a squishy, you need to kill fast before they kill you)
0.75-0.8 Buff/Debuff mod* (Corruptor/Controller, or slightly better)
Inherent: Stoicism - 4mag Protection and 50% resist to Hold/Sleep/Disorient/Immobilize/Confuse/Fear (basically the same protection as Bane Spider armor, enough to prevent getting detoggled by every AoE mez tossed at your other Melee ATs, but not much else)
Toss in all the Melee and Support sets (maybe tweak some support sets to offer more personal protection) and you're golden.
*Alternately you could do Support/Melee for 1.0 Buff/Debuff and 0.8 Melee Damage.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I meant it more as fury for Brutes, with a bar that fills up during the course of battle and you get a boost. I feel like making it a Support/Melee AT would just make it seem like a Defender, but with melee instead.
Without creating a new AT, you can come up with a Defense Set whose secondary powers are team buffs. This would be great for a mystical defense set.
Or, just as a Defender is Buff/Range, mainly through proliferation you can create a new AT that would be:
- Buff/Melee
- Buff/Assault
- Buff/Support
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But the whole point is making a new AT, but I get what you're saying. I've always liked the idea of alternate playstyles for ATs. To use another game as an example (and the devs talk about it enough) is Team Fortress 2. In the game, they re-purposed their demolition guy role for a strict melee-oriented one by the way of new weapons. It would be kind of cool to see powersets for ATs that change up their playstlye as well.
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Wouldn't making it a Melee/Support just make it feel like a Corruptor with Melee instead?|
Originally Posted by That_Ninja
I meant it more as fury for Brutes, with a bar that fills up during the course of battle and you get a boost. I feel like making it a Support/Melee AT would just make it seem like a Defender, but with melee instead.
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Point is, I don't really care which is the primary and which is the secondary, I would play it like no one's business.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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I'd probably lean towards this route, though I might throw in a couple of self-defense powers, or else change up some of the support powers so they were self-affecting. Make the secondary a Defense/Support mix, kind of a defensive analogue of Dominator Assault sets.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Were I designing the AT, I would start with the following and adjust from there:
0.95-1.0 Melee Damage mod* (melee vs ranged opens you up to more damage and you're a squishy, you need to kill fast before they kill you) 0.75-0.8 Buff/Debuff mod* (Corruptor/Controller, or slightly better) Inherent: Stoicism - 4mag Protection and 50% resist to Hold/Sleep/Disorient/Immobilize/Confuse/Fear (basically the same protection as Bane Spider armor, enough to prevent getting detoggled by every AoE mez tossed at your other Melee ATs, but not much else) Toss in all the Melee and Support sets (maybe tweak some support sets to offer more personal protection) and you're golden. *Alternately you could do Support/Melee for 1.0 Buff/Debuff and 0.8 Melee Damage. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I like this Idea, but I would prefer it with the "Buff Fury idea". Maybe this AT could be called "Crusader", or "Commander". Anyway, /Signed.
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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Yeah, a ways back I made, I guess you'd call it a mock-up, of the support sets for a possible melee/support archetype. (Why yes, yes I do have too much time on my hands. How'd you guess?) I modified numerous powers to either be self-affecting (such as changing ally shields [Frozen Shield for instance] into PBAoE buffs [like how Farsight works now])*, or PBAoE toggles instead of enemy targeted (Enervating Field changed to Enervating Aura, etc).|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I'd probably lean towards this route, though I might throw in a couple of self-defense powers, or else change up some of the support powers so they were self-affecting. Make the secondary a Defense/Support mix, kind of a defensive analogue of Dominator Assault sets.
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I definitely think changes could(should/might have to) be made to the support sets, were this AT ever to happen. Storm for instance, would be a pretty terrible set to pair with Melee as is. So would Forcefield... Repulsion Field and Force Bubble would be completely counter to a melee AT. Etc., etc.
*This was back before the ally buffs got changed to ally AoEs.
(I also have complete powerset info for a fictional Defense/(control/melee) archetype. Too. Much. Time.)
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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PlEeZ pOsT nAo!!
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Originally Posted by oathbound
yeah, a ways back i made, i guess you'd call it a mock-up, of the support sets for a possible melee/support archetype. (why yes, yes i do have too much time on my hands. How'd you guess?) i modified numerous powers to either be self-affecting (such as changing ally shields [frozen shield for instance] into pbaoe buffs [like how farsight works now])*, or pbaoe toggles instead of enemy targeted (enervating field changed to enervating aura, etc).
I definitely think changes could(should/might have to) be made to the support sets, were this at ever to happen. Storm for instance, would be a pretty terrible set to pair with melee as is. So would forcefield... Repulsion field and force bubble would be completely counter to a melee at. Etc., etc. *this was back before the ally buffs got changed to ally aoes. (i also have complete powerset info for a fictional defense/(control/melee) archetype. Too. Much. Time.) |
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
Over powered on teams
@MARTy McFly
A lack of mez protection on a melee character would be an issue.
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Not if you're playing traps
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Originally Posted by Giant2005
A lack of mez protection on a melee character would be an issue.
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@MARTy McFly
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Sure Sonic, FF and Traps will be fine but you can't create an archtype with the knowledge that it is only useful with a couple of very limited combinations. The devs create ATs like that by accident, never on purpose.
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Originally Posted by Bubblerella
Not if you're playing traps
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I think that would boil down to you having to carry BFs, instead of just running into mobs playing easy mode as with most melee.|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Sure Sonic, FF and Traps will be fine but you can't create an archtype with the knowledge that it is only useful with a couple of very limited combinations. The devs create ATs like that by accident, never on purpose.
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Support have been doing this for a long time. Mez is ranged most of the time.
If you want buff/debuff you're gonna have to give something up.
@MARTy McFly
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Not if it was provided in the inherent.|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
A lack of mez protection on a melee character would be an issue.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bubblerella
I think that would boil down to you having to carry BFs, instead of just running into mobs playing easy mode as with most melee.
Support have been doing this for a long time. Mez is ranged most of the time. If you want buff/debuff you're gonna have to give something up. |
A mez is a mez, no matter if it came from that Freakshow Stunner's Tesla Cage, or that Slammer's %Chance to stun you with his hammer attack.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
How about if the Support set had built-in Mez Defenses as an AoE Toggle?
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
Quote:
I meant to get back to this. |
Originally Posted by Oathbound
Not if it was provided in the inherent.
Power that are Specifically for control are generally ranged yes, but MANY melee powers have a control effect to them. A mez is a mez, no matter if it came from that Freakshow Stunner's Tesla Cage, or that Slammer's %Chance to stun you with his hammer attack. |
I have to say, after reflection, you're logic makes perfect sence to me.
It's a good trade off, with no crits, no furry, and a good damage/buff/debuff balance, I can
see it.
After all, the AT, is would be a melee/support AT, not a scrap or brute.
I'd still roll an SS/traps. Or maybe an an SS/cold. So many ways to
@MARTy McFly
melee/pets with support based pets. :3
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This was often proposed back when people wanted a Heroside equivalent to masterminds. Idea being that instead of "sending your minions in to die" like a "villain would," YOU hold the agro and take the damage while your pets assist you.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
melee/pets with support based pets. :3
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Now that you can actually have a Hero MM, I think it's less likely (particularly since we know summoning sets are far more work than any conventional set type).
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Years of Blappers would like to disagree with you~
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Originally Posted by Giant2005
A lack of mez protection on a melee character would be an issue.
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For years I have been asking for this, and for years more I will continue to back it up as a brilliant idea. I would play this for all it's worth, maybe even giving up Blasters as my favourite AT. While it's up for the developers to work out numbers, I would expect to see melee damage similar to a Tanker, with support by Buffs/Debuffs that of a Controller?
The issue of balance is of course to the Dev's choosing, but the problems highlighted in this thread (survivability vs damage vs mez protection, or lack thereof) could be fixed by the inherant working much like Invinciblity/Rise to the Challenge/Against All Odds, where you get some kind of survivability buff for each enemy within range (range doesn't have to be melee). These buffs could range from mez protection, to defense (to avoid the mezzes hitting you) to the enemy's secondary effects being debuffed heavily, so as to increase the support of the AT.
My personal favourite would be to have enemies increase your defense/mez resistance (not protection) by small %s when they're within 20ft, while allies within that range would increase damage resistance/mez protection, as you have the courage/power called forth when you have allies to protect. As said, Blappers generally have no issues with being in melee despite their squishyness (if played right), so a soloing Melee/Support AT shouldn't have issues if they play smart. In team, it's generally more chaotic so I think it's okay to let them have some breathing room by giving straight up mez protection and damage resistance for allies in range.
For numbers with the above inherant idea, I would imagine around 4% damage resistance to all and mag 2 protection to all but Repel and Knockback for each ally in range, then 3% defense to all positions plus 10% resistance to mez for each enemy in range. Keep the usual cap of 10 targets and for it to include ally pets (why not?) and you can be looking at 30% defense, 100% (halves the duration) mez resistance, 40% damage resistance and mag 20 mez protection if you're in a full team and at the front line of the fight. With no additional combat buffs (Fury, Critical) and nothing to help your buff/debuffing (Vigilance), combined with you having to be at melee range to fight, I feel it's only fair (remember, 8 person team setting -with pets- and surrounded by enemies for the numbers, and they're unenhanceable).
And very much agreed on the AT being called Commander. If it was implimented, I would make a Titan Weapons/Storm with a massive axe and Street Justice/Traps backalley boy genius.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
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@CBeet
I would need the melee damage to be similar to scrappers/brutes, if not exceed it, for the AT to work the way I imagine it would. I'm not a game developer though, so what do I know?
Essentially, I imagine the playstyle to be similar to a blapper, but you buff yourself with your utility powers, or mez the enemies. It will be a higher-risk gameplay than your traditional scrapper as your 'defense' powers are much more reactive than simply turning on all your toggles and going all juggernaut. The trade-off for no personal toggles is your ability to better carry the rest of your team by keeping them in tip-top shape with your impressive team oriented secondary.
Not sure how to flesh it out, but Synapse said that it would be an area other ATs haven't filled and I would really like to conceptualize it. I would imagine that the melee powers would be quicker than Brutes, but definitely not as strong. Maybe their can be a fury/combo/momentum system for the AT where the more damage or attacks landed will increase a bar that gives a minor damage boost, but a greater buff/debuff boost.