Did You Know That There Was a Cap on Recharge?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2011-10-05 20:08 in Scrappers
There are many limits in CoX.
Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge procs don't stack (and aren't always-on like Mids treats them!). They only have a 10% proc rate, and last for 5 seconds... it's still a pretty good proc, but it's not as good as Mids would lead you to believe. If you're constantly spamming powers with the proc, it will be up fairly often, but, it won't be stacking with itself.
Hasten is unlikely to be perma (pretty close, though). Overall the build seems fairly decent, you're softcapped to S/L (would be nice to get Nrg/NE softcapped, and maybe some more for Fire/Cold, since you've got relatively little protection against them).
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I thought it looked to good to be true. I'll attempt to acquire the other defenses; but, would you recommend keeping the procs or only one of them?
I've gone the FF proc route on my energy blaster: its fun, but as mentioned it doesn't stack. The best place to put the proc is in AoEs because there is a 10% chance for the proc to go off per target hit. In large teams when I'm spamming torrent and explosive blast I sometimes have the proc up almost constantly - and its self-reinforcing: the proc causes the AoEs to recharge quicker, so they're up more often, so I'm using them more often, so I'm getting more coverage from the procs.
So keeping it in spinning strike might be a decent value. But there's less opportunity cost to pull those slots from Crushing Uppercut and Heavy Blow if you need the slots elsewhere.
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Personally? I'd definitely keep them all, they'd provide a pretty nice extra boost to recharge for only a single slot in powers that often can be fully enhanced with a slot to spare. I've not looked at StJ enough yet to get a good grasp on how often those powers would be going off to have a good enough grasp of how regularly they'd be firing in practice... if you didn't go with that proc, definitely replace them with a damage proc of some sort.
You could also replace the Invention: Accuracy enhancements from Heavy Blow/Shin Breaker/Crushing Uppercut with an accuracy/other enhancement, as you've got +57% accuracy and +11 tohit from Tactics (note: Mids also claims the Chance for Build Up proc is always active, so it throws off your damage/accuracy on all your powers!). Initial Strike & Rib Cracker might be a touch low in the accuracy department (you can get away with 154.8% in most of the game easily, but as you start raising the difficulty it'll start getting sketchy).
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Yeah. For what it's worth, my criteria for using the Force Feedback proc in a given power are:|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
There are many limits in CoX.
Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge procs don't stack (and aren't always-on like Mids treats them!). They only have a 10% proc rate, and last for 5 seconds... it's still a pretty good proc, but it's not as good as Mids would lead you to believe. If you're constantly spamming powers with the proc, it will be up fairly often, but, it won't be stacking with itself. Hasten is unlikely to be perma (pretty close, though). Overall the build seems fairly decent, you're softcapped to S/L (would be nice to get Nrg/NE softcapped, and maybe some more for Fire/Cold, since you've got relatively little protection against them). |
1.) Is it an AoE attack?
2.) Does it have a large area and (relatively) high target cap?
3.) Is it feasible/desirable to spam it?
Footstomp is the poster child, though I'm sure there are other good examples. Street Justice doesn't have anything like Footstomp; Spinning Strike is an awesome attack that takes the knockdown proc, but you're gonna have a hard time cramming ten targets into its much smaller area every time the power recharges. Still, Spinning Strike isn't a terrible place for the FF proc, if you're really jonesing for recharge.
Crushing Uppercut and Heavy Blow? They are terrible places for the FF proc. Oh, it'll fire off occasionally against single targets, but the over-time benefit of the FF proc in single-target attacks is pretty pathetic when weighed against other options (damage procs, or just other enhancement schemes in general).
As far as the rest of the build goes, I haven't looked over it very carefully, but I do question why you'd skip Fast Healing and why you'd take Body Mastery on a Willpower character. One of the really great perks of Willpower is that you already have very high endurance/health recovery; trying to tack extra onto those strengths is a valid approach, but it's rarely the most efficient one. More specifically, even if you are married to Body Mastery, I'd definitely skip Physical Perfection before I'd skip Fast Healing.
If you possibly can, Energy/Negative DEF would be nice to have higher. Fire/Cold is, in my experience, not worth trying to soft cap.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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There is a special case, and its why its slotted in Power Bolt and Power Blast on my energy blaster. Blasters get to use their top two tier primary attacks even when mezzed. If I'm mezzed I'm going to be forced to cycle just those two powers until I use a break or the mez wears off. By having the proc slotted into both powers, that extra +100% recharge when it procs can be very useful in getting a burst of damage to help out in that situation.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
Yeah. For what it's worth, my criteria for using the Force Feedback proc in a given power are:
1.) Is it an AoE attack? 2.) Does it have a large area and (relatively) high target cap? 3.) Is it feasible/desirable to spam it? |
This may be a special case of #3, where situations may arise when I'm basically *forced* to spam it.
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I dropped Physical Perfection and Conserve Power in favor of Fast Healing and Focused Accuracy. The latter was done to take care of the underslotted accuracy of Initial Strike and Rib Breaker. Obitus made a good point about PP being superfluous, and FH made a dramatic impact on my passive regeneration. I've shifted some slots around to acquire more E/NE defense and am just shy of the softcap. I've left the procs in because even though they may not fire often in the ST attacks, I have to imagine that they'll fire at least once per Hasten cycle. The whole reason that I put them in was to make Hasten perma. Perhaps someone better at math than I can show this assumption to be true or false. The one thing that I know for certain about this build is that I need more slots.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
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Click this DataLink to open the build!
The Unnamed Scrapper: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Initial Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), HO:Nucle(15)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 2: Heavy Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), FrcFbk-Rechg%(48)
Level 4: Sweeping Cross -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(11), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(11), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Erad-%Dam(34)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam(15)
Level 14: Combat Readiness -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(17)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Numna-Heal/Rchg(40), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Numna-Heal(42), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(42)
Level 18: Spinning Strike -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(19), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(21), FrcFbk-Rechg%(23)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(37), EndMod-I(40)
Level 22: Rib Cracker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), HO:Nucle(43)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Shin Breaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Achilles-ResDeb%(46)
Level 28: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(29), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam(31), GA-3defTpProc(31)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 32: Crushing Uppercut -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), FrcFbk-Rechg%(43)
Level 35: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(45)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(39), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def(45), RedFtn-EndRdx(46)
Level 41: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A)
Level 44: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(48)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(48)
Level 49: Strength of Will -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam(50)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
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Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Code:
P.S. Disregard the levels at which everything was chosen. FH and FA were put directly in the place of CP and PP for the sake of not having to completely reorder things in the middle of the discussion.
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I would take the FF procs out of the single target attack powers and slot them with either bonus damage procs or an IO to increase acc/dam/end/rech.
I notice you took all the combo builder powers (Initial Strike, Heavy Blow, Rib Cracker and Shin Breaker). They all have a quick recharge especially with IO's and I would consider dropping one of them. If you are using them as mules for Kinetic Combat, consider putting them into Boxing or Brawl. With the extra power choice, go with Fast Healing as it also provides Regen Debuff Resistance.
Yep. Knew there was a cap. Have spent lots of time at it on mixed groups of Rads and Kins.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Sitting at 92.5 on my EM/SD now, with hasten up (perma'd), 162.5. That doesn't include level 4 reactive Incarnate 45% recharge -- although I'm not sure how they add up together, it doesn't show in my combat attributes.
Overall though, I time LR and SC at ~22 seconds, down from 1.5 mins. That doesn't include the recharge proc in TS.
End seems to be great with the build too, if I have issues, I use Conserve Power and by the time it ends, I'm back at full end...and it recharges by the time I need it again.
The only piece I'm short right now is the Glad set 3% +Def to all (which I'm bidding on/making offers out of market for).
****edit****
I think I'll take a defense out of ranged and throw a slot into Energy Torrent for antoher +Recharge chance.
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Here it is (in all its expensive glory):
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Havoc Punch -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(7), LkGmblr-Def(9), GA-3defTpProc(43)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(9), LkGmblr-Def(11), DefBuff-I(46), DefBuff-I(48)
Level 4: True Grit -- RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(A), RgnTis-EndRdx/Rchg(11), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(13), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RgnTis-Regen+(15)
Level 6: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(15), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(17), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(17), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(19), GSFC-Build%(19)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Armgdn-Dmg(21), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(23), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(23), FrcFbk-Rechg%(25)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(25), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 16: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def(29)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Hectmb-Dmg(31), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(31), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(33), Zephyr-ResKB(34)
Level 26: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 28: Spring Attack -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(34), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Oblit-%Dam(36)
Level 30: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-%Dam(39)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(40), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Erad-%Dam(42)
Level 38: Conserve Power -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Laser Beam Eyes -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apoc-Dmg(42), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(43), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(48), P'Shift-End%(50)
Level 49: One with the Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
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Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(50), Mrcl-Heal(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(46), EndMod-I(48)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1467;669;1338;HEX;| |78DA65946D53125114C7EFC212CA83423E800AA284A8202B2835955A33A6353432E| |30CE55B87F00A5B3BC000D3C4CB5EF4057AD31728AB377DA0EA0BF4A0F5AAA931A3| |C39E3FD8B43B30BFDDFF3DFF73CEBD7BEFE69F6C79DEDD797A532843B78C62B3B95| |F28358AF5BA6CB8EEC952A55A336AE5B6E85E4EFA477A83FB796948A96D1BB2D46A| |E8A5A2C1C2F9F8963C94D5A6D40A155D1A07BD477FAE5A910D596D69BD1BEF6EAD6| |668B7F572A5A557CB2EF3A95097F2C063DEEEC8629D74BFF990AB3ED69BFA03DDD0| |5B6DFF765D2F699BB583F67EBED86CC9463B48FDCDD1FF8757E0EA38C42121A30A5| |B19AC30551D7CC8BCF088E9EA7A15D36B17630A8FF99803A3CCC48ADDA49B62158E| |5515C40E20D685D8D434E75D063DE4B1C363BF4E37618A5D637AD6C10DE6D00DE64| |FF238301FC74B9B9967E815D37704BE665E7C03BE65FE22AF93EB399C1BAC8DAE83| |5799E3D7C03566F019D34BDE41AE2B0693DCBF429BC00DCDDDA14BD849F172059B3| |7CDB30E669993AB4C95628611338C959AC44A85B052A754CDCF99557F923B082598| |D371701E5C644629EF087B6C23E870E63F8E53CC18D71663A81D202D005FE03DE79| |AF9C09CFD8815A67E26CCD7DB1113B398FDB81053781353A788FF0D9E312FFD013B| |A0E0DD324CF9C2E8238C3ECE488B205F04F962C81743BE18F2C5912F8E7C7EF246E| |18D7EB2993B25FE9939FF05FC0A1E33174F98053B9F946E2F7398DB7DD216B0FE0B| |19AEB5980697988914B8CCDC234F129EE40A6B4BAB6016BCCC4C5D611E51DF1AF68| |23683D3F19CC7322FB07B29268DFED2013E05C7AEFE69138AB9F3BE9D2B36658F57| |347397384FCC314F2CAEEFFFBA502F85FACBE827A4F6BF20F4EBBA226AFFBBD0495| |846D316256351562D4AD6A2EC58945D1565FBFD0FFA447707989DFC056A2AEB16| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Justice
Incarnate - 50 Elec/SD
Keplar - 50 DM/SR
Gravaton Cleric - 50 Grav/Kin
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Absolutely. And even if we ignore Defiance, from what I've read of your Blaster, I get the impression that super-duper recharge is kind of her schtick anyway; if you really want to max recharge, then I think putting FF procs every where they'll fit is great. It certainly doesn't hurt.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
There is a special case, and its why its slotted in Power Bolt and Power Blast on my energy blaster. Blasters get to use their top two tier primary attacks even when mezzed. If I'm mezzed I'm going to be forced to cycle just those two powers until I use a break or the mez wears off. By having the proc slotted into both powers, that extra +100% recharge when it procs can be very useful in getting a burst of damage to help out in that situation.
This may be a special case of #3, where situations may arise when I'm basically *forced* to spam it. |
Also, in the interest of full disclosure: I may be a little biased against the FF proc because when it first came out there was a forced cooldown on the proc effect; it could never be up for more than 5 seconds out of every 10 (on top of not stacking with itself). That's around the time I did most of my hands-on experimenting with it.
The OP has a very tight build though, and (s/he can correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think the goal of the build is to maximize recharge, per se. It seems like s/he was more interested in getting just enough recharge and happened to stumble onto the somewhat misleading way that Mids' handles FF procs, which led to a "hey, look at this" thread title.
Anyway, just wanted to clarify a bit: I maybe came off as a little too critical of the FF proc in my previous post. Slotting it in single-target attacks isn't the most efficient use of slots, but as long as you're aware of the trade offs there are no bad or wrong choices. In your case especially, it's safe to say you're aware of the trade offs.
On to the build stuff:
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Originally Posted by Marka Ragnos
I dropped Physical Perfection and Conserve Power in favor of Fast Healing and Focused Accuracy. The latter was done to take care of the underslotted accuracy of Initial Strike and Rib Breaker. Obitus made a good point about PP being superfluous, and FH made a dramatic impact on my passive regeneration. I've shifted some slots around to acquire more E/NE defense and am just shy of the softcap. I've left the procs in because even though they may not fire often in the ST attacks, I have to imagine that they'll fire at least once per Hasten cycle. The whole reason that I put them in was to make Hasten perma. Perhaps someone better at math than I can show this assumption to be true or false. The one thing that I know for certain about this build is that I need more slots.
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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1596;737;1474;HEX;| |78DA6594DB4E13511486F774068142A1A5A5E5D89672686969A1807A654C1035316| |08AE5E0998C740B4DC6D24C6B50EFBCF005BCF1424D3CDCFB0E3E80872846DE4089| |A2BE80A98B597FDB914ED27C6BAFBDF63AEDD5BD786FBEFDCDF987A785D271C6D04| |BA5F5EC86A9178BD26CBEA897EF9ABA21E8F32D6FC9F04AA1A0DF91B970CD803602| |D5C5FAA234A44CCD99FA8E912F6CF6D5F4F3F2B62C94646A2D6F18C5ED1D690A676| |67BDB48658B52E6DA2D7141EA453AE3B216E7F29B5B655A7556B772D22C6DE58B5D| |678BF98DD49CA13F90EB8B7AA92CCDFB3D94C034FDDEF905BE8A26328488261C4BE| |025A6966576E488694DAC1E66AF58675431AD5ABA891552448959667249B1F4EFFD| |3015952665DF21C420F93B601EFB01FE64BACBEC7FF894C3E2658AA3721C87BAC2F| |E9C5910FE2364D3C4364A5382CFB7801F2976336A6B466D6ED4D683DA7A505B1CB5| |5DA103AD88D9DACD31C6FE0A2BBFF849A2A68A35B26943FD6D41AEB73D040E313B2| |24C3FD9BAE0CF057F433EE6889779956C3A15C5B2E9449D51D4175D667EA25A3CE8| |A3679AFBD33503CE327DC7C1134CFF23E635F2EF450EDEC7AC1B79C28C86B9EE0FE| |4BF9BFD2BDD4F69CF4BE79F31153A1FE03D35803E8E2D3393E8E724FAF999FCF422| |CFDE28C7E88B81E3CC81387322C14CBEE5382AC5E9479EFDE8EB00FA18445FAF93C| |D206C06DDDC9B60B5AF1EE62EE510420E21E41B469E61E419C6BD0F7DE5D91BFF82| |D924FF11DC6D047E871167F8C8BD79C87614B3375A9D15CCC82B971031F42CB6FB7| |F8CF41E88D8AFC936C1B68EC473BE8FC917E04BA69762A5703F29DC4B1AF77493F6| |A6784F4C0514CBE78193FE779C9B5092ECE3775DA72817B89F2DABCC5F76FB18DBF| |FB1EB3027035AEDBD50ABEF4510B3308E1EC7D1E390567B272AF1FAB9C36585326D| |D0A41B34330D9AD906CD428326A3D5DE1CA1589A5637BD24AC39FA659C87EDE0AD1| |B3659B7C9B76C729F8FFA0079CF5B97976CF2B7FAA35AF96E93F76DF23F1B7500E2| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
HP: (with all Accolades) 170.4%, or 2282
Regeneration: (with one foe in range of RttC) 64.1 HP/sec
Global Recharge: +65%
Accuracy: Enough to cap against +3s without using Tactics, which remains in the build as a set mule/emergency thing. Generally I don't sweat extreme DEF/ToHit debuff situations on characters that have access to a Build Up power; those situations are rare enough that I figure I can just pop a yellow or two if BU isn't enough to carry the day.
Basically, I lost a tiny smidge of standing Resistance (down 1.7% to S/L), and a fair bit of peak Resistance (w/ Strength of Will) for a little improvemet on just about everything else.
I'm still leveling up my Street Justice character and don't have a really good feel for the set, but you should be able to construct a seamless attack chain without Initial Strike pretty easily. What's interesting to me about Street Justice with respect to ST attack chains is that the combo-builder system can almost encourage sub-optimal attack selection. And because aesthetics are such a selling point of the set, I can see people purposely choosing a slightly less optimal attack chain just for the sake of looks.
(Personally, I'm not sure I want to use Shin Breaker yet; it's not bad looking, but I prefer all of the other attacks, and after years of playing MA in its various incarnations, I'm wary of building myself a StJ character that's too kick-heavy. YMMV.)
(What I really wish is that we could combine some MA moves with Spinning Strike and/or Crushing Uppercut. How cool would that be?)
Anywho, you should be end-sustainable for something like 20 minutes running just about any single-target attack chain I can conceive. If you wanna get spammy with the AoEs, you're gonna run yourself dry in like a minute and a half.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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At tier 4, 2/3rds of the Alpha enhancement ignores ED. At its most restrictive, ED reduces the value of your enhancement by 85%, so basically the Tier 4 Spiritual is, at worst, the equivalent of (45*0.66)+(45*0.34*0.15) = about 32% in global recharge. It can be worth significantly more in powers that are not fully enhanced for Recharge.|
Originally Posted by Keplar
Sitting at 92.5 on my EM/SD now, with hasten up (perma'd), 162.5. That doesn't include level 4 reactive Incarnate 45% recharge -- although I'm not sure how they add up together, it doesn't show in my combat attributes.
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It's a pretty big deal. AFAIK, Mids' takes care of the calcs for you, though, so I wouldn't sweat it. If you have selected the appropriate Alpha boost in the Incarnate window and have the toggle set to ON, the numbers you're seeing for each power include the Alpha bonus.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I see! I was expecting it under Totals -- I see it when I highlight powers. It is 22 seconds, not counting the possible boosts from the recharge chance.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
At tier 4, 2/3rds of the Alpha enhancement ignores ED. At its most restrictive, ED reduces the value of your enhancement by 85%, so basically the Tier 4 Spiritual is, at worst, the equivalent of (45*0.66)+(45*0.34*0.15) = about 32% in global recharge. It can be worth significantly more in powers that are not fully enhanced for Recharge.
It's a pretty big deal. AFAIK, Mids' takes care of the calcs for you, though, so I wouldn't sweat it. If you have selected the appropriate Alpha boost in the Incarnate window and have the toggle set to ON, the numbers you're seeing for each power include the Alpha bonus. |
Thanks!
Justice
Incarnate - 50 Elec/SD
Keplar - 50 DM/SR
Gravaton Cleric - 50 Grav/Kin
Thank you for the suggestions, Obitus. I like the revisions a lot. On a side note, does anyone know why Spinning Strike takes Ranged AoE enhancements instead of PBAoE? I haven't played the set yet, but I assumed the attack would be more like FSC than Fireball.
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There are competing theories on that, and more than a couple of complaints besides. |
Originally Posted by Marka Ragnos
Thank you for the suggestions, Obitus. I like the revisions a lot. On a side note, does anyone know why Spinning Strike takes Ranged AoE enhancements instead of PBAoE? I haven't played the set yet, but I assumed the attack would be more like FSC than Fireball.
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But the simple answer is that Spinning Strike is a Targeted AoE; it just happens to be a targeted AoE with a very short (melee) range. If you wanna be paranoid, you can argue that the devs made it that way to penalize IO builds -- because PBAoE IO sets are generally better than TAoE IO sets.
If you wanna be positive, you can argue that the devs were doing us a favor by giving Spinning Strike better positional synergy with Sweeping Cross; in other words, because Spinning Strike centers on the target and not the caster, you can get full mileage out of its (relatively small) area if you position all of the targets in front of you, whereas a 6' PBAOE would require you to have some of the mobs behind you.
If you position yourself for optimal use of Sweeping Cross, you won't have to move much if at all to leverage Spinning Strike, and vice-versa.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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It has been a long time since I've fiddled with this proc, too, but you're saying the internal cooldown was removed?|
Originally Posted by Obitus
Also, in the interest of full disclosure: I may be a little biased against the FF proc because when it first came out there was a forced cooldown on the proc effect; it could never be up for more than 5 seconds out of every 10 (on top of not stacking with itself). That's around the time I did most of my hands-on experimenting with it.
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Hmm, looking at it in CoD, I do seem to remember "Lifetime in-game" being set to 10 rather than the current 0. Interesting.
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Actually, this seems to be a case of some errant testing creating a myth. When the proc first came out, I tested it and confirmed it performed as it does now. I mentioned it on the forums, and promptly forgot about it.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
Also, in the interest of full disclosure: I may be a little biased against the FF proc because when it first came out there was a forced cooldown on the proc effect; it could never be up for more than 5 seconds out of every 10 (on top of not stacking with itself). That's around the time I did most of my hands-on experimenting with it.
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It was only much later that I happened to read a forum post about the "cooldown" and then I read the paragonwiki article that described the cooldown. I checked the power implementation, and the power wasn't implemented to do that. So I retested the power, and it was still performing without a cooldown. So I went to Castle and asked him to confirm my testing and my interpretation of the power design, and he confirmed it did not have a cooldown nor to the best of his knowledge did it ever have a cooldown. That's when I started telling people the paragonwiki article was wrong.
Its a tricky proc to test, so I can only assume that some early tests suggested there was a cooldown, and everyone simply interpreted their future tests on the assumption that there was a cooldown. But I can say I've never seen such a cooldown in my testing, starting with when the proc was first released, and it definitely does not have a cooldown or is intended by design to have a cooldown. It is only intended to not stack, and not extend (meaning you cannot refresh it while its up). There will always be some downtime, but if you're lucky that downtime can be arbitrarily low.
If it ever actually had such a suppression, Castle was unaware of it and I have no direct evidence of it. I have to believe this one was a testing glitch that wasn't discovered until much later.
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Actually, I'd argue that taking all the combo builders is a very good option for StJ characters for one very good reason: If you miss on your finisher. Unlike Dual Blades, your combo isn't broken by missing, and since combo level refreshes everytime a builder connects, Initial Strike (the one builder most commonly skipped) is great to toss out to keep your Combo Level at 3.|
Originally Posted by ricohdah
I would take the FF procs out of the single target attack powers and slot them with either bonus damage procs or an IO to increase acc/dam/end/rech.
I notice you took all the combo builder powers (Initial Strike, Heavy Blow, Rib Cracker and Shin Breaker). They all have a quick recharge especially with IO's and I would consider dropping one of them. If you are using them as mules for Kinetic Combat, consider putting them into Boxing or Brawl. With the extra power choice, go with Fast Healing as it also provides Regen Debuff Resistance. |
I won't argue that it's not skippable or otherwise something you could respec out of if you wanted to, I just don't see a reason to do it personally.
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Hmm - that is a good point.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
There is a special case, and its why its slotted in Power Bolt and Power Blast on my energy blaster. Blasters get to use their top two tier primary attacks even when mezzed. If I'm mezzed I'm going to be forced to cycle just those two powers until I use a break or the mez wears off. By having the proc slotted into both powers, that extra +100% recharge when it procs can be very useful in getting a burst of damage to help out in that situation.
This may be a special case of #3, where situations may arise when I'm basically *forced* to spam it. |
Something to consider.
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Interesting. Good to know.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, this seems to be a case of some errant testing creating a myth. When the proc first came out, I tested it and confirmed it performed as it does now. I mentioned it on the forums, and promptly forgot about it.
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Originally Posted by Issen
Actually, I'd argue that taking all the combo builders is a very good option for StJ characters for one very good reason: If you miss on your finisher. Unlike Dual Blades, your combo isn't broken by missing, and since combo level refreshes everytime a builder connects, Initial Strike (the one builder most commonly skipped) is great to toss out to keep your Combo Level at 3.
I won't argue that it's not skippable or otherwise something you could respec out of if you wanted to, I just don't see a reason to do it personally. |
Missing a combo builder on StJ is much more forgiving than missing any element of a Dual Blades combo. The difference between the tier 2 bonus and the tier 3 bonus isn't that big a deal; you'd probably be lowering your DPS anyway if you went out of your way to cram Initial in after every miss.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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You have a point as well, I suppose, but on my StJ/EA scrapper I'm not exactly lacking for slots anywhere at the moment (All my attacks have 3 slots atm, level 22, and my defense powers have about 3 slots so far).
If it was WP, I could see being starved for slots. But right now I see no compelling reason to skip Initial Strike.
As for taking FF out of Heavy Blow...actually, I could see a reason for keeping it there. On my current build I don't have Hasten, reason being that I'm taking everything from the primary from Confront, everything from the secondary save Overload (I don't like panic buttons or the crash), and Spring Attack. By putting an FF proc in Sweeping Strike, Heavy Blow, and Spring Attack, there's pretty good chances it'll proc. While obviously it can't proc more than once at the same time, it's STILL good chances considering Heavy Blow recharges super quick and Sweeping Strike/Spring Attack are both AoEs.
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I apologize if it wasn't clear, but I was talking about respec builds. I never ever skip the first tier attack when I'm leveling up. At level 22, I wouldn't expect you to have done so either.|
Originally Posted by Issen
You have a point as well, I suppose, but on my StJ/EA scrapper I'm not exactly lacking for slots anywhere at the moment (All my attacks have 3 slots atm, level 22, and my defense powers have about 3 slots so far).
If it was WP, I could see being starved for slots. But right now I see no compelling reason to skip Initial Strike. As for taking FF out of Heavy Blow...actually, I could see a reason for keeping it there. On my current build I don't have Hasten, reason being that I'm taking everything from the primary from Confront, everything from the secondary save Overload (I don't like panic buttons or the crash), and Spring Attack. By putting an FF proc in Sweeping Strike, Heavy Blow, and Spring Attack, there's pretty good chances it'll proc. While obviously it can't proc more than once at the same time, it's STILL good chances considering Heavy Blow recharges super quick and Sweeping Strike/Spring Attack are both AoEs. |
That said, your third paragraph is about as good a justification to drop an attack as any, for a finalized build. You're saying you're starved for power slots.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Starved for power slots? Maybe. But I don't think Hasten is necessary on an Energy Aura Scrapper whose already going for heavy recharge and has Force-Feedbacks.
But then I don't often solo stuff, and a LOT of these builds I see look like things you'd solo on.
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I'm not saying Hasten is necessary. I'm saying that if your reasoning for skipping Hasten is that you don't have enough power picks, then you could stand to skip an attack. If you want, of course.|
Originally Posted by Issen
Starved for power slots? Maybe. But I don't think Hasten is necessary on an Energy Aura Scrapper whose already going for heavy recharge and has Force-Feedbacks.
But then I don't often solo stuff, and a LOT of these builds I see look like things you'd solo on. |
By all means, play what you like; god knows I've cursed Hasten's glowy hands' effect on more than one occasion, myself. This is a mechanical discussion, though: it's one thing to say that you don't want or need Hasten, or that you don't want to skip one of your seven available attack powers -- but it's a different matter to argue that taking all of your attacks and skipping Hasten is mechanically equivalent or superior to the alternative.
I just want people to understand their options.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I downloaded the new version of Mids' yesterday and designed a StJ/WP Scrapper. I noticed that there were a lot of knockback powers so I threw in some Force Feedback procs for giggles. According to Mids', if I get all three to activate at once, I get 400% global recharge. I've left the build as is because I don't know how often the procs will fire in actual play; but, I really like the idea of Hasten on a 90 second timer. Below is the build. Any suggestions or comments on the excessive recharge?
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
The Unnamed Scrapper: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Initial Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 2: Heavy Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Acc-I(15), FrcFbk-Rechg%(48)
Level 4: Sweeping Cross -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(11), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Armgdn-Dam%(34), FotG-ResDeb%(34)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam(15)
Level 14: Combat Readiness -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(17)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal(42), Dct'dW-Rchg(42), Panac-Heal/+End(42)
Level 18: Spinning Strike -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(19), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(21), FrcFbk-Rechg%(23)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(37), EndMod-I(40)
Level 22: Rib Cracker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Shin Breaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Acc-I(43), Achilles-ResDeb%(46)
Level 28: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(29), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam(31), GA-3defTpProc(31)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 32: Crushing Uppercut -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Acc-I(43), FrcFbk-Rechg%(43)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(36), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(39), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(39)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(48), EndMod-I(48)
Level 49: Strength of Will -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam(50)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
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Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3