Spinning Strike: wrong IO categories, methinks
By
Ardrea,
Posted on: 2011-10-05 01:46 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
If the range enhancement found in all Targeted AoE sets does not actually increase the range of the power, then you would be correct sir. It should take PBAoE sets.
|
Originally Posted by Vanden
So it seems Spinning Strike in Street Justice takes targeted AoE sets. While it is technically a targeted AoE, targeted AoE sets are supposed to be for ranged attacks; just looks at the names of them. As Spinning Strike is a melee attack, I'm pretty sure it should take PBAoE sets. There's precedent; Thunder Strike, the only other melee-ranged targeted AoE takes PBAoE sets.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Dunno if it helps but all the powers in the Mace/Axe sets take PBAoE and so does Footstomp. Haven't seen spinning strike in person yet but if it's like Claws Spin, Axe/Sword/Mace/Katana/Energy Melee "whirling" attacks, etc, it should take PBAoE.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If the range enhancement found in all Targeted AoE sets does not actually increase the range of the power, then you would be correct sir. It should take PBAoE sets.
|
Kinetic Melee and Claws each have powers that take Targeted AoE sets, Breath of Fire in Fire Melee and Throw Spines in Spines as well.
Is it comparable to any of those examples?
Iirc, you need a target to use the power. You can't just stand there like a lot of pbaoes. I like the diversity too
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
Quote:
Not really, those powers are all ranged cones and with the exception of Breath of Fiire all have ranges of 30 to 40 feet IIRC (BoF has a range of 15 feet).|
Originally Posted by Brawlnstein
Kinetic Melee and Claws each have powers that take Targeted AoE sets, Breath of Fire in Fire Melee and Throw Spines in Spines as well.
Is it comparable to any of those examples? |
According to mids, those powers do accept Range enhancement, and Spinning Strike does not.
Spinning Strike really should accept PBAoE sets, the same as Thunderstrike.
Quote:
You're missing the point. It's not just true un-targetted PBAoE attacks that take PBAoE invention sets. Up to this point, all cones with radius 10ft or less and all targetted AoEs with range 10ft or less (although T-Strike might be the only one of those) have also taken PBAoE sets. This is true whether they appear on a melee AT or a ranged damage AT. So yeah, Throw Spines takes TAoE, but that's because its cone radius is greater than 10ft. Lightning Rod is the only other exception I can think of, if you want to call it that. It technically has a 60ft range, I think, but since it teleports the player there and THEN does the damage in a sphere around the player it is tagged as a PBAoE power for inventions.
|
Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
Iirc, you need a target to use the power. You can't just stand there like a lot of pbaoes. I like the diversity too
|
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Quote:
You need a target to use any of the melee cones as well, and they take PBAoE sets. |
Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
Iirc, you need a target to use the power. You can't just stand there like a lot of pbaoes. I like the diversity too
|
I cite as an example: Slice, Flashing Steel, Ripper, Eviscerate, Sweeping Strike. All melee cones that require a target, and all take PBAoE sets (there are more than that, but I don't feel like typing them all out)
The closest power to Spinning Strike is indeed, as Vanden mentioned, Thunder Strike. With that one, you target an enemy, and the AoEs radius is centered on that enemy instead of on you. It takes PBAoE sets as well.
My issue is with the Range enhancement component found in Targeted AoE sets, I know Posi's Blast for sure has one, and I think most of the others do as well. It is a completely useless enhancement for a melee power, as it will do nothing at all.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
I agree with this and hope that they change it.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
My issue is with the Range enhancement component found in Targeted AoE sets, I know Posi's Blast for sure has one, and I think most of the others do as well. It is a completely useless enhancement for a melee power, as it will do nothing at all.
|
Has anyone actually tried to slot an IO set in Spinning Strike? What about checking the Enhancements screen to see what sets are listed as options for the power?
I would guess that it's an error in MIDs rather than that the power actually takes TAoE sets.
Quote:
What? Go take a melee attack and slot a centriole in there - it increases the range. I've done this on my crab/bane to get a 12' shatter range, and a 10' Crowd Control.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
My issue is with the Range enhancement component found in Targeted AoE sets, I know Posi's Blast for sure has one, and I think most of the others do as well. It is a completely useless enhancement for a melee power, as it will do nothing at all.
|
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
Quote:
Ah Hamidon, still screwing with powers in ways the devs can't predict. Hehe.
|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
What? Go take a melee attack and slot a centriole in there - it increases the range. I've done this on my crab/bane to get a 12' shatter range, and a 10' Crowd Control.
|
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
Not just Hamidon - remember how [Mind Link] didn't accept Recharge enhancements? And how not only Membranes but Tohit and Defense sets with recharge enhancements affected the recharge of Mind Link?|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Ah Hamidon, still screwing with powers in ways the devs can't predict. Hehe.
|
Also - take a Bane on Mender Ramiel's Arc - in the first mission, Shatter Armor has a 35' range.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
Looking at the Targeted AoE sets ... there's not really a lot of range in them. E.g., there's only one part of Positron's Blast that's range. Only slotting five slots, or subbing a Recharge Common in the last slot would work pretty well.
Quote:
Mind Link's designed that way, though. Even dual-typed IOs (which don't have the same problem as HOs) allow you to enhance Mind Link's recharge, and Castle confirmed that as working as intended back when the power was first revealed.
|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Not just Hamidon - remember how [Mind Link] didn't accept Recharge enhancements? And how not only Membranes but Tohit and Defense sets with recharge enhancements affected the recharge of Mind Link?
|
Quote:
Correct. I think they made a mistake though. Of course if it did increase the range, maxed would be 10-12 feet, which might help a bit. However Spinning Strike is obviously a PBAoE since it is centered on yourself and melee range.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If the range enhancement found in all Targeted AoE sets does not actually increase the range of the power, then you would be correct sir. It should take PBAoE sets.
|
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
Quote:
Actually they all modify range except the purple lvl 50 set.
|
Originally Posted by Ardrea
Looking at the Targeted AoE sets ... there's not really a lot of range in them. E.g., there's only one part of Positron's Blast that's range. Only slotting five slots, or subbing a Recharge Common in the last slot would work pretty well.
|
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
Quote:
Actually, it's centered on the target. But it's weird enough as it is...trying to enhance its range would just make it weirder.
|
Originally Posted by Quixotik
Correct. I think they made a mistake though. Of course if it did increase the range, maxed would be 10-12 feet, which might help a bit. However Spinning Strike is obviously a PBAoE since it is centered on yourself and melee range.
|
Quote:
True, so range modifiers should increase the range.
|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Actually, it's centered on the target. But it's weird enough as it is...trying to enhance its range would just make it weirder.
|
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
Quote:
Not necessarily. Initial Strike is centered on a target as well. Should it get an increase in range?
|
Originally Posted by Quixotik
True, so range modifiers should increase the range.
|
I'm pretty sure they changed melee attacks ages ago to be immune to range enhancements/buffs. Not to nerf the frankenslotting potential, as you might guess, but because Hurricane could debuff melee attacks so much that it was impossible to melee the target while in the 'Cane.
Also, to expand on what Claws was saying regarding range enhancements: When i9 was on the horizon, a dev spoke on the topic of PBAoE vs. targeted AoE sets. They said that the rule of thumb would be that if the power in question could slot for range, then it would take targeted AoE sets. If it could not be slotted for range, then it would take PBAoE sets.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Quote:
You're misreading Ardea's post. The point is that only one piece of posi's set modifies range and people usually only 5-slot anyway. Same with many of the other sets. It is easy to skip the individual pieces with a range bonus because those pieces are a minority. Ard was not saying that sets with such pieces don't exist or are rare.
|
Originally Posted by Quixotik
Actually they all modify range except the purple lvl 50 set.
|
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
You're both missing the point. The fact that those sets contain ranged enhancements at all just shows that targeted AoE sets are meant for ranged powers, not melee powers.
And Spinning Strike IS a melee power, just look at its info; it's typed melee (and smashing), not ranged or AoE.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
I'm not saying I like it being targeted AoE, just that it's not horrible -- there doesn't have to be a great deal of wasted enhancement.
Spinning Strike seems to be similar to Thunder Strike from Elec Melee.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
It should definitely take pbaoe sets.
So it seems Spinning Strike in Street Justice takes targeted AoE sets. While it is technically a targeted AoE, targeted AoE sets are supposed to be for ranged attacks; just looks at the names of them. As Spinning Strike is a melee attack, I'm pretty sure it should take PBAoE sets. There's precedent; Thunder Strike, the only other melee-ranged targeted AoE takes PBAoE sets.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.