Spinning Strike: wrong IO categories, methinks

Ardrea · 10-07-2011 08:19 PM

Another possibility is to frankenslot for range out of the available TAoE sets, with the intention to make it easier to hit more enemies with it. Would this work?

Lazarillo · 10-12-2011 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandX

Slot in Ragnarok then?

I might just be missing some sarcasm here, but when the solution to a situation is "slot purples", then that situation should kinda be seen as a problem.

GavinRuneblade · 10-12-2011 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarillo

I might just be missing some sarcasm here, but when the solution to a situation is "slot purples", then that situation should kinda be seen as a problem.

Not necessarily. Some top-end builders consider it an advantage to have access to more than 2 purple sets in an attack chain as not all primaries do. By giving access to Ragnarok there's another category. Just a shame it's proc is knock not damage though.

Edit: but 99.999% of the time you'd be right. Just pointing there is a possible exception.

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Zem · 10-12-2011 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade

Not necessarily. Some top-end builders consider it an advantage to have access to more than 2 purple sets in an attack chain as not all primaries do.

It's an advantage until some dev happens along and says, "Oops... Spinning Strike should be taking PBAoE sets like every other melee range AoE. Let's just fix that now!" At which point you better be really happy with that build because if you want to keep the purple set you can't ever respec again.

Which is why, while I may have a preference, I actually care less about which way they decide this one as long as they DECIDE and remove the lingering doubt that this was a mistake that will one day be "fixed".

So rednames, if you're listening, would you kindly drop by and favor us with a "WAI" or something? Thx.

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Issen · 10-13-2011 12:34 AM

I've seen maybe ONE post that notes the game is NOT balanced around IOs, so regardless of the preferences people have as to which IO sets a move should accept, it's most likely NOT going to change.

The moves acts like a TAoE attack, even if it is melee. This is (from what I've seen in the U-stream and the guide posted up) the intended effect. Which means it's functioning exactly the way the devs wanted it to.

So Spinning Strike won't take the sets you'd rather it take. Does it make it any less useful of a move?

Nope.

OneWhoBinds · 10-13-2011 03:31 AM

You know, a lot of this argument would be moot if there were a couple more Uncommon or RareTAoE sets available... ones that WEREN'T designed around using a ranged cone? That's the only reason they have range enhancements in the first place.

Guess we'll just have to (*gasp!*) Frankenslot this power. Does seem kinda awkward to have to do that with a pure damage power, but it isn't something truely remarkable.

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Deus_Otiosus · 10-13-2011 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarillo

I might just be missing some sarcasm here, but when the solution to a situation is "slot purples", then that situation should kinda be seen as a problem.

Ragnarok is inferior to Armageddon anyway (I'll concede that you'd still want Armageddon in SC if you're goal is to incorporate that into a ST chain, however that doesn't appear to give that much advantage).

But yes, suggesting a purple set because the rest of the TAoE options are at best mediocre, isn't really a great solution. I also think the Ragnarok proc is a waste there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade

Not necessarily. Some top-end builders consider it an advantage to have access to more than 2 purple sets in an attack chain as not all primaries do.

Spinning Strike should not be in your single target attack chain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issen

I've seen maybe ONE post that notes the game is NOT balanced around IOs, so regardless of the preferences people have as to which IO sets a move should accept, it's most likely NOT going to change.

This is a discussion on IOs sets, and if you don't think there is any balancing in this game on what is possible with IO sets, you really need to take a closer look at the game.

Not balanced solely on IO sets is not the same as not balanced for IO sets at all.

This is also the entire point of the post by the OP, so you've really missed the point of the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issen

The moves acts like a TAoE attack, even if it is melee. This is (from what I've seen in the U-stream and the guide posted up) the intended effect.

Now explain how this attack is functionally different from Thunder Strike.

Zem · 10-13-2011 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issen

I've seen maybe ONE post that notes the game is NOT balanced around IOs, so regardless of the preferences people have as to which IO sets a move should accept, it's most likely NOT going to change.

You don't know that. Like I said, if this is considered a bug then they will fix it. The likelihood it IS a bug is high because every other melee range AoE in the game accepts PBAoE sets, including the only other one which is ALSO implemented as a TAoE, Thunder Strike.

Quote:

The moves acts like a TAoE attack, even if it is melee. This is (from what I've seen in the U-stream and the guide posted up) the intended effect. Which means it's functioning exactly the way the devs wanted it to.

Powers accept IOs according to how they are used, not how they are implemented. Rain of Fire doesn't accept Pet Enhancement sets even though it actually IS a pet summoning power. That's an implementation detail. It functions AS a targeted ranged AoE so it accepts TAoE sets. Spinning Strike is a "Point-Blank" range AoE. Thus it should accept PBAoE sets like every other melee AoE which is used at Point-Blank range and is not meant to be range-extendable.

Quote:

So Spinning Strike won't take the sets you'd rather it take. Does it make it any less useful of a move?

That's not really the point. People are concerned that it has the correct set because no one wants to deal with it being changed at a later date, nor do they want sets that offer unusable range enhancement. I think that's a pretty reasonable concern.

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Test_Rat · 10-13-2011 06:54 AM

Um, I just spent 10-15 Bio on a Build for my Street Justice scrapper. My Spining Strike uses Ragnarok.

I don't think I would take it well if 5 slots in my build are disabled by a future patch, unless I got a respec to compensate me.

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Deus_Otiosus · 10-13-2011 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test_Rat

Um, I just spent 10-15 Bio on a Build for my Street Justice scrapper. My Spining Strike uses Ragnarok.

I don't think I would take it well if 5 slots in my build are disabled by a future patch, unless I got a respec to compensate me.

I think a freespec is pretty much a forgone conclusion if the devs actually do change it, I don't think they will change it - I just disagree strongly enough that I'm still posting about it.

Lazarillo · 10-13-2011 07:22 AM

In the past, when they've changed what sets a power will take, it didn't affect enhancements already in the power, it just meant that upon the next respec, for example, you could no longer use them. A freespec would be nice in that situation, but probably not necessary.

SmegHead · 10-13-2011 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanden

A ranged attack that happens to have the exact same range as all melee attacks? Sounds more like a melee attack to me.

An you know, melee cones need a target, should they use targeted AoE sets too?

First I have to know how this power works. Is it actually a cone? Does the attack hit a target and "explode" hitting enemies around it like a typical TAoE? Or does it kind of spit out the back of the attack like thunderstrike or golden dragonfly?

If its a cone or like thunderstrike, yes it should get pbaoe sets. If the attack works like a melee fireball then I think the taoe sets should stay.

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Lazarillo · 10-13-2011 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmegHead

First I have to know how this power works. Is it actually a cone? Does the attack hit a target and "explode" hitting enemies around it like a typical TAoE? Or does it kind of spit out the back of the attack like thunderstrike or golden dragonfly?

Thunderstrike is like a melee fireball. You target an enemy, and then it does splash damage in a radius around them. It's not a cone like Golden Dragonfly. However, Thunderstrike is still a melee attack and takes (and always has taken) PBAoE sets. Spinning Strike is almost an exact clone of Thunderstrike, except it doesn't do bonus damage to the main target.

SmegHead · 10-13-2011 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarillo

Thunderstrike is like a melee fireball. You target an enemy, and then it does splash damage in a radius around them. It's not a cone like Golden Dragonfly. However, Thunderstrike is still a melee attack and takes (and always has taken) PBAoE sets. Spinning Strike is almost an exact clone of Thunderstrike, except it doesn't do bonus damage to the main target.

It is? I remember it only coming out the back of the attack on my ice/elec blaster. But then again the last time I played that toon was i12. With that being said it really can go either way. I'd rather have pbaoe sets to be honest though... for obvious reasons.

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MAD UMLAUTS · 10-17-2011 02:29 PM

i would prefer haveing pbaoe because theres more set options. sounds like it was a sloppy oversight like stalker headsplitter