Street Justice could be the highest single target DPS set in game when taken by Scrappers

It looks to me like it a chain of rib cracker -> heavy blow -> shin breaker -> heavy blow -> crushing uppercut would not be outside the realm of possibility. If you use initial strike instead of heavy blow it should be easier without much of a dps sacrifice. This is obviously not going to be a cheap build either way, but without doing the math I dare guesstimate that its dps is very respectable. Shin breaker with an achilles' heel, initial strike or heavy blow with procs if that's possible. Maybe only for initial strike.

Actually I guess it wouldn't be impossible to run rib cracker -> shin breaker -> initial strike -> crushing uppercut. That's a lot of global recharge but people do stranger things. I wonder if the rib cracker debuff stacks from the same target.

I'm pretty sure...

Rib Cracker - Shin Breaker - Initial Strike (or Heavy Blow) is just impossible to run, with the recharge cap. Both of those chains would require Crushing Uppercut to recharge in under 5 seconds. With a 25 second recharge on CU, I don't think you can get it that low.

Now something for Brutes to possibly consider is an attack chain that goes Gloom -> 3 Combo Builders -> CU -> Repeat. Getting Gloom's high DPA without sacrificing a combo builder point.

Also, something else one would likely want to do is go the route of...

3 Combo Builders -> (we'll just use...) CU (...as an example) -> Repeat UNTILL Combat Readiness is recharged, and throw in Combat Readiness -> Sweeping Cross or Spinning Strike before returning to the regular attack string.

You don't want to waste the 3 Combo Builder points CR is giving you, howeverr Sweeping Cross or Spinning Strike both have higher DPA's than every combo builder attack EXCEPT Shin Breaker.

And the +Damage Buff will last into at least the second attack of the attack string after it's been run once.

Now Sweeping Cross is the better DPS attack, but not by a lot, and Spinning Strike might pull a head in use as it's more AOE, and less likely to be skipped than Sweeping Cross in tight builds.

Either way, when you obtain that ST DPS string, it looks like you'll want to throw in one of the other finishers when you hit CR, to not waste the Build Combo points, and I think that increases your DPS as well, since you're throwing in a better DPS attack into the chain.

Still haven't figured out the best DPS chain though myself, and I'm thinking it will use 4 Combo attacks before using CU in it...likely...

RC -> HB -> SB -> HB -> CU -> Repeat (placing the RC with the CR -> Sweeping Cross, when CR recharges, as I don't think it's 7.5% -Resist will be that much of a factor, but if it is, HB-RC-HB-SC-CU and replace the first HB.).

But that chain requires CU to recharge in 5.808 seconds...which is possible, but not an easy feat at all, and not very likely...sooo...

SB -> RC -> HB -> SB -> HB -> CU -> Repeat (replacing HB or RC with CR + #2 Finisher, depending onhow much a factor the -Resist in RC is).

SB would need to recharge in 2.904 seconds, which is easy enough to achieve. This also make is so CU needs to recharge in 7.392 Seconds (which is easy enough to achieve).

This is roughly (with 99% DMG slotting) 151 DPS, not accounting for Procs or CR's -Resist, and with the use of replacing HB or RC with CR + 2nd Finisher...the DPS will be a bit more than 151 of course, I just don't know how much more.

-Resist Proc in SB for sure, and likely with the Purple Proc as you can five slot that set into the attack.

...all in all, I believe MA still has better ST DPS with just SK-CS-SK-EC sans the procs...with the procs in effect, harder for me to say.

[EDIT] My math could be completely off...I just don't think it is.

That chain you posted is about 144 DPS. Replacing RC with SB will increase DPS to 147. And figuring a -Resist Proc in SB, you might be better off without RC, as it's -Resist is only 7.5%, BUT it is an always thing (I believe), so it might be worth keeping in.

However with that chain, if possible might be worth replacing HB-RC-HB with Combat Readiness, when it's up.

Obviously not a big loss on the DPS, and the string you posted has a much easier time on the RCH requirement.

[EDIT] But remember what I said, Combo Level 3 Finishers for Sweeping Cross and Spinning Strike all OUT DPS Heavy Blow, Initial Strike, and Rib Cracker.

130 (Spinning Strike) and 136 (Sweeping Cross) VS Heavy Blow with the best DPA of 120.

Hmm Energy Melee with pre nerf ET?

To be fair, Energy melee has decent DPA in Total Focus, ET (even post nerf) and Energy punch. Bonesmasher and barrage aren't horrible DPA either, especially with the buff to barrage.

Well I haven't spent a lot of time on it; I've just been kinda unimpressed by the numbers I'm seeing when I plug various attack chains in for my StJ builds. But for the sake of clarifying (both for myself and for anyone else who's interested) let's look at a typical high-end MA attack chain versus StJ's attacks (using Mids' numbers @ level 50):



Martial Arts:

• Storm Kick - 82.58 damage, 1.056s cast, 6s recharge, 7 end, 78.2 DPA
• Cobra Strike - 122.6 damage, 1.848s cast, 10s recharge, 10.19 end, 66.34 DPA
• Crippling Axe Kick - 132.6 damage, 1.848s cast, 11s recharge, 11.02 end, 71.75 DPA

Attack chain is Storm-Cobra-Storm-Crippling @ 72.37 DPS. That's base DPS, before considering enhancements, crits, procs, or what-have-you. With ~99% damage enhancement (3 level 50 IOs), the chain jumps to 141.12 DPS. With a 10% average crit rate, you're looking at 155.2 DPS, which is lower than I was getting the other day -- hm, ok, looks like Mids' is giving Storm Kick a 25% crit rate, which is almost certainly not correct. AFAIK, Storm has a 10% chance to crit on minions, and a 15% chance to crit on lieuts/bosses/etc. Anyway, if we take 15% for Storm Kick and 10% for the others, our average crit for the whole chain becomes 12.5%. 141.12 * 1.125 = 158.76 DPS.

(I was getting something like 178 DPS the other night w/ Mids' Storm Kick crit number, so my statement in the previous post may be totally off-base; we'll see!)

In order to run that chain, you'd need ~325% total recharge in Storm Kick (and less in the other two), which is pretty easy to do on an IO build, leaving you room to do all sorts of things with defensive bonuses.



Street Justice:

• Initial Strike - 52.55 damage, 1.056s cast, 3s recharge, 4.37 end, 49.7 DPA
• Heavy Blow - 72.57 damage, 1.32s cast, 5s recharge, 6.03 end, 54.9 DPA
• Sweeping Cross - 93.84 damage, 1.848s cast, 8s recharge, 8.53 end, 50.77 DPA
• Rib Cracker - 82.58 damage, 1.584s cast, 6s recharge, 6.86 end, 52.1 DPA
• Shin Breaker - 102.6 damage, 1.584s cast, 8s recharge, 11.86 end, 64.7 DPA
• Crushing Uppercut - 198.9 damage, 2.376s cast, 25s recharge, 14.35 end, 83.7 DPA

Now personally, I've been debating a couple of different attack chains for this set, but I'm not going to go into all of that because it's boring; suffice to say that normally attack chains are pretty straight-forward: you pick out the best DPA attacks available and try to make them chain together. With StJ, you're pulled in a number of different directions because of the combo system, the RES debuff in Rib Cracker, and the perhaps unusually diverse proc selection (Achilles' Heel in Shin Breaker, Armageddon and/or Fury of the Gladiator in Sweeping Cross).


Then you have the utter primacy of Crushing Uppercut, which means that you want ideally to structure the attack chain so that CU is cast almost as soon as it recharges; in other words, ideally the the length of the attack chain should be roughly equal to CU's cycle time (recharge + cast).

Anyway, what we see immediately is that the second chain you suggest is impossible: Rib-Shin-Initial-Crushing would require Crushing Uppercut to recharge in 1.584+1.584+1.056 = 4.224 seconds, which is lower than the minimum achievable cooldown of 5 seconds (25/5 = 5; the recharge cap is 500%).

The first chain you suggest, Rib-Heavy-Shin-Heavy-Crushing, is possible, but very very unlikely for any build to achieve on its lonesome. Crushing Uppercut will have to recharge in 5.808 seconds, which corresponds to 430% recharge in the power. The first 100% is free, and let's say the power's enhanced for 100%. Hasten's 70%. So you're gonna need to get about 160% in global recharge bonuses from IOs (and/or Spiritual Alpha, which at best will account for ~32% in a fully enhanced Crushing Uppercut).

The above chain would give you 153.71 DPS w/ ED-compliant damage slotting, the 10% crit rate, and the bonus combo damage for CU. Factoring in one copy of the Rib Cracker RES debuff would raise that value to 165.24 DPS.

My rule of thumb is that 400% recharge in any given power is about the practical limit I can expect to reach on most any IO build. YMMV, but just for argument's sake, my practical limit would put Crushing Uppercut at a recharge timer of 6.25 seconds. So if we take 400% recharge as the standard, and go with the above criteria of making CU available as often as possible (combo points be damned), we end up with something like:

Rib-Shin-Heavy-Rib-Crushing-pause 0.178 secs -> 148.3 DPS, 159.5 w/ Rib debuff.

If we cut out the pause by adding an extra Heavy Blow, we end up with Rib-Shin-Rib-Heavy-Crushing-Heavy -> 147.3 DPS, 158.3 DPS w/ RES debuff.

If we go with Giant2005's attack chain, we end up with Rib-Shin-Heavy-Crushing-Shin-Heavy -> 151.8 DPS, 163.2 w/ RES debuff. The caveat is that the chain's too long for (AFAIK) the Rib Cracker debuff to be permanent. It is 5 seconds long, isn't it? If we say the debuff has approximately half uptime, then we're looking at 151.8 * 1.0375 = 157.5 debuffed DPS.

Please's recharge-friendly chain gives us Heavy-Rib-Heavy-Sweeping-Heavy-Shin-Heavy-Crushing -> 147 DPS, with the same caveat as above, so about 3% higher with the Rib debuff.

Conclusion (also known as TL;DR): So, um, yeah. Looks like Street Justice is very ... er, modular for lack of a better word. All manner of different approaches end in basically the same place, unless I'm doing my math wrong (which is not at all unlikely).

And because I was using the wrong number for Storm Kick earlier, I had an inflated idea of what MA was capable of. My suspicion is that the greater availability of high-end procs on Street Justice will push it farther ahead; MA really only has one uber proc option (Hecatomb), whereas Street Justice could potentially have three purple damage procs in a singe-target chain (Armageddon, Hecatomb, Unbreakable Constraint) and two RES-debuff procs.

Regardless, I think it's fair to say that the Original Poster's estimation that Scrapper Street Justice would blow the doors off of everything else is highly exaggerated. It appears to be competitive among Scrapper Primaries for single-target DPS, but it isn't as good as the OP may think from just looking at Crushing Uppercut's ZOMG crit number.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Just wanted to note that I typoed this chain in my spreadsheet (forgot the second Heavy Blow), so the quoted DPS number should be 144.2.

NP. I started typing that monstrous reply before BrandX and Giant responded to you, and then got distracted by other stuff and only came back to finish much later, so apologies if it seemed like I was piling on with the correction.

The Mids' database shows both the damage and RES debuffs for Rib Cracker at 5 seconds, but hey, these things can be wrong. I haven't checked, but I'm assuming City of Data doesn't have Street Justice yet. Did you pull that 8 second figure out of the in-game info?

Yeah, whether the debuff is 5 seconds or 8 seconds (see above), I think Rib Cracker is designed as a proactive defensive attack. The damage debuff is really really nice if you spam the power as often as you can, at least in theory (have to double-check to see if it stacks with itself).

The option to go into defensive mode is nice, but the number of viable attack options in the set are apt to give the powergamer fits; skipping Initial Strike wasn't a difficult decision for me, but I'm really struggling for something else to skip. Stylistically, I'm leaning towards Shin Breaker, but it does have the best non-finisher DPA available. Course, spammed Heavy Blow with procs is pretty good too.

Decisions, decisions. At least now I'm reasonably sure that I'm not going to hurt my DPS too terribly much if I tinker with the attack chain. Seems the set's real strength lies in situational burst damage anyway.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

It certainly seems like it.

Not using CU at lvl 3 on the Combo system, makes it a better DPS?

Yeah a lot of this thread isn't making much sense to me either.

I'm sure throwing Gloom into the attack chain on Brutes and Tankers is a good idea. But not if it means lowering the combo level.

Maybe HB-SB-HB-CU-Gloom. And I'd still think throwing in a CR-SC back intot he attack chain is probably better for dps, as lvl 3 SC is better DPS than HB.

I'm not sure they did that directly on purpose, but I would have. My own philosophy on game design is to give people all the numbers, and then make them impossible to min/max around without a supercomputer and a PhD in game theory. You'd be surprised how easy that is to do: there is *still* no general consensus as to just how strong the SR passives are, my own analysis on the subject notwithstanding.

To me, that's brilliant. Not deliberately so in that case, but still brilliant.

It is at combo level 3 in the chain I proposed (unless soemthing misses and screws it up) SB + SB + RC = 3

You're right. When I posted that, at the time I was under the impression that using another attack would ruint he combo points, but after playing today and actually paying attention to it (was using Iron Blade as I attacked Red Caps) I saw it didn't stop the combo points.

On average, I think its around 30%, with all 3 passives on my SR. So each passive is about 10% . What I did was get to 1 hp, record every resistance level with every regen tick then divide the sum of them by the number of regen ticks until my resistance was back to 0. With 59% being max 30% was median anyway.

I think she meant how strong they are in terms of their overall value in the grand defensive scale of things. I happen to think they're really good. Some may find them unsuitable to defend the louse that sits atop the mouse in their outhouse. Who's to say?

So not to go off topic, please share what your thoughts on the SR passives are? Or just PM me, I am curious. I never play the set I am just curious.

Water straight from the spring is often the purest.