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The pic in question doesn't tell anyone else to stop reading, it simply informs that the poster in question stopped reading.
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Originally Posted by Muse to my Ears
I really don't appreciate you telling people to stop reading this post.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
It also entails that what was left simply wasn't worth reading.
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The picture shows that they didn't read the rest and don't actually know if it's worth reading.
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Originally Posted by Muse to my Ears
It also entails that what was left simply wasn't worth reading.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Yes but both people have tons of forum credit so others might think that they have more of an opinion than me who only has a small amount. Even though i've been playing for a few years, I just never really posted much until this year
I would say Sonic, FF, and TA are all about on the same level, they all need help.
TA needs flash arrow and PGA improved to be decent. Shoot maybe even combine them into a single power like how every other debuff set does.
Both Sonic and FF need to replace the powers that almost no one ever takes with powers that better round out the set, such as a -Def/-Res field for FF.
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I'm struggling to understand how Sonic is as bad off as FF. Have you played a FF to 50? I have. Maybe I can explain with a question or two:|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I would say Sonic, FF, and TA are all about on the same level, they all need help.
TA needs flash arrow and PGA improved to be decent. Shoot maybe even combine them into a single power like how every other debuff set does. Both Sonic and FF need to replace the powers that almost no one ever takes with powers that better round out the set, such as a -Def/-Res field for FF. |
1) What's the go-to Debuff in FF?
2) What does FF add to a team when many players are already +Def soft-capped?
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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Sonic and force field at least do what they specialize in better than any other set. Trick arrow does not accomplish this.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I would say Sonic, FF, and TA are all about on the same level, they all need help.
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Originally Posted by Great_Scott
What does FF add to a team when many players are already +Def soft-capped?
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1) There isn't any, except knockback and knockdown. Repulsion Bomb has a chance for Stun, but only a chance.|
Originally Posted by Great_Scott
I'm struggling to understand how Sonic is as bad off as FF. Have you played a FF to 50? I have. Maybe I can explain with a question or two:
1) What's the go-to Debuff in FF? 2) What does FF add to a team when many players are already +Def soft-capped? |
2) Two answers for this, and a special one for BAF:
a) Softcapping the rest of the Defense types and ranges. Also, strong End Drain resist.
b) Softcap in Incarnate content where the enemies have more ToHit.
BAF: Force Bubble for the prisoner phase.
It's true that with IOs you can hit 45% defense to some values, but not all at the same time.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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I think you'll find that most people around here can read a full post and form an opinion based on its merit regardless of the tl,dr responses. Number of posts doesn't really weigh in as there are a ton of "build my post count" games on these forums. Unfortunately (for you imo), the person who posted the "stopped reading" at that point was correct. FF is not OP and honestly never has been. There is a reason it is a fringe defender set. The over the top claim that FF is OP and Sonic doesn't match up really weakened your original post.
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Originally Posted by Muse to my Ears
Yes but both people have tons of forum credit so others might think that they have more of an opinion than me who only has a small amount. Even though i've been playing for a few years, I just never really posted much until this year
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I'm thinking some of your end issue with the Demon/Sonic was due to the incr end usage MMs have. Not saying that end isn't an issue with Sonic/ fenders, cuz we all know it is.|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
My .02 influence, I have bought into sonic resonance since the beta for that issue. I find sonic cage to have far more utility when soloing. I agree that finding a way to proliferate applying the sonic disruption field to the defender WHILE SOLO would be good.
I rolled up a Demon/Sonic to witness the effects of having a willing sonic debuff anchor always available. Wow, talk about endurance usage! Even with inherent stamina, my toggles are crashing all the time. The -resistance of disruption field is mobile and constant. If it's on a sympathetic ally or a melee pet, it's very effective to keep on a running/mobile hard target. In my opinion, less endurance cost or bigger debuff would be appreciated. Seeing the interplay with time juncture, a modest -damage debuff augmenting the anchor's -resistance would be an interesting improvement. |
Have you tried using an incarnate pet? I haven't, but I keep threatening myself with the incarnate route on my Sonic/Sonic. Altitus keeps hitting about the time I think about doing the work on him.
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Actually, the LOWEST +defense numbers on my current crab build on Live (Not 'wishlist in Mids' but actually live right now and looking at power details) are 45% to Energy and Negative energy, with my highest being 57.6% Ranged...so...yeah.|
Originally Posted by McNum
It's true that with IOs you can hit 45% defense to some values, but not all at the same time.
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Said crab also provides +16.99% to any teammates in range from Tactical Training: Maneuvers and another 5.32% from Pool Maneuvers...while laying out more AoE death than a defender can get outside of being Fulcrum Shifted, and while being able to do a -20/40% resistance debuff with Venom Grenade...and I don't even have the pair of purple sets I want for her yet.
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For some content, the effective soft-cap is higher, and I doubt too many people reach that on their own. Enough Barriers could still make a bubbler feel unloved, though.
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Originally Posted by Great_Scott
What does FF add to a team when many players are already +Def soft-capped?
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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My Demon/FF Mastermind begs to differ (as long as you don't look at Psionic when she doesn't have a Luck handy).|
Originally Posted by McNum
It's true that with IOs you can hit 45% defense to some values, but not all at the same time.
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Exact same case for my Fortunata. My Bane would also have Psionic capped with a Gladiator +3% Defense.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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I say FF and Sonic are the same level because of how differently +res and +def cap. FF has pretty much zero value on teams/league well into the softcap of Defense, because it has really crappy filler powers. Sonic suffers the same problem which has much worse filler powers, but it takes a lot more to make the +res/-res it brings redundant even on leagues.|
Originally Posted by Great_Scott
I'm struggling to understand how Sonic is as bad off as FF. Have you played a FF to 50? I have. Maybe I can explain with a question or two:
1) What's the go-to Debuff in FF? 2) What does FF add to a team when many players are already +Def soft-capped? |
So on one side you have Sonic with a stat that isn't easily capped off and in both buff and debuff flavors, but it has the worst designed filler powers in the game (see Sonic Repulsion). On the other hand you have FF, which caps out way faster, comes in only the buff variety, and filler powers that are terrible but no where near as bad as sonic's. Either way they are both in bad positions because of those crappy filler powers.
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Originally Posted by Garent
Sonic and force field at least do what they specialize in better than any other set. Trick arrow does not accomplish this.
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Sonic is just too much a one trick pony. It screws with res, but not much else, when most the best sets have a variety of effects they do.
They would have to dramatically change sonic to make it more viable(short of making it's numbers insane), and they allready did that, it's called thermal.
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My primary is AR and I can safely say Sonic Resonance is underrated. Liquefy needs to have the recharge lowered and I think the set is good to go.
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Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
Two people have spoken up about how much they enjoy their Sonic Defenders (Aneko and False Fiction), and both have Sonic Blast as a secondary. Sonic Blast practically out-performs Sonic Resonance in terms of applying resistance debuffs. At least half of any hard-target-meltage you'd see with this pairing comes from the secondary, not the primary, and could be fairly closely matched by a Storm/Sonic, TA/Sonic. Rad/Sonic, and so on.
I do care that other sets can hit the same numbers, because we shouldn't be penalised in terms of performance for choosing sets on concept grounds. I like Sonic too - my Sonic/Energy Defender was the first characterI unlocked the Alpha slot on out of over ten level 50s, but during my career I had a fair few gripes. - Struggling with endurance in the early levels. I had enough to shield everyone and keep Disruption and Dispersion up, but precious little to blast. This was before inherent Stamina, but wasn't fun. Suggestion: Lower the end cost of Disruption Field. - Difficulty soloing. I couldn't do invincible missions until my mid-30s, whereas nearly every other character I played hit that at 22. Suggestions: Give me better -Res solo. Either make Sonic Siphon stack, or affect multiple targets, or make Disruption Field somehow workable without an ally. Use the "Swap Ammo" trick to unlock two mutually exclusive powers, an ally toggle and a self-toggle maybe. - Being away for a while and then joining a request to beat up Babbage. Getting a "lol psi" from some articulate teammate when I turned up and realising all my protection powers were useless. Suggestion: Add Psi resistance to Clarity/and or Dispersion. (Or Psi defence...) - Limited IO potential, as Burning Chick says. Suggestion: Give us a new set or two for resistance with some decent bonuses like happened to PBAoE sets. Or add some token defence somewhere, eg Psi Defence in Clarity maybe, so we can slot a LotG/Kismet etc in there. (Make the Clarity Psi Def Power-Boostable too) At least we can slot a Steadfast IO no problem. Maybe add some -Def into Sonic Siphon so we could add an Achilles heel in there like other sets often do to boost their existing -Res? I think theres a lot of little tweaks that could be done to the set without re-writing it that would make it more competitive and fun to play, and hopefully more popular. |
I really like the idea of sonic, res buffs and debuffs - even if they could be higher - are always helpful. The thing is, it's such a boring set to play because it doesn't offer anything else. It would be nice if they made it more of a grab bag set, like Thermal.
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And then what about the people who enjoy it because it isn't a grab bag set? (this isn't me btw, I prefer the sets with lots of toys but there are ringers & bubblers out there who like the sets for what they are.)
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Originally Posted by Melancholia
I really like the idea of sonic, res buffs and debuffs - even if they could be higher - are always helpful. The thing is, it's such a boring set to play because it doesn't offer anything else. It would be nice if they made it more of a grab bag set, like Thermal.
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Problem is, those people are very few. At least you could remove the filler powers and replace them with something useful (Sonic Repulsion, plus for a set that has a an anti-mez bubble Clarity could be switched for something more useful, imo at least). |
Originally Posted by MikeRobe
And then what about the people who enjoy it because it isn't a grab bag set? (this isn't me btw, I prefer the sets with lots of toys but there are ringers & bubblers out there who like the sets for what they are.)
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Liquefy is the only really 'fun' power in the set and it has a 300 sec recharge, almost Nuke (360s) level, while TA'a Oil Slick arrow, which most consider to recharge too slowly and make Ta a subpar set, has a 180s recharge.
The set (FF) has been around for 7 years and Sonic for what? 5?... the only reasonable change you're going to ever see to them is adjustment of numbers. You won't see powers changed to a grab bag.
Also, I'd argue that given the sets have been around for so long, those "few" who enjoy the sets and play them as they are outweigh any calls for changing powers by people who may or may not pickup the set if it were more like <x> (except for improving recharge times if number crunching shows that the recharge times are indeed unfair in comparison to other sets.)
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Let's not get started on how overpowered VEATs are.|
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
Actually, the LOWEST +defense numbers on my current crab build on Live (Not 'wishlist in Mids' but actually live right now and looking at power details) are 45% to Energy and Negative energy, with my highest being 57.6% Ranged...so...yeah.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Trick Arrow specializes in -res AoEs
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=262373
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On the good side, skippable powers mean you can use more from power pools without angst.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
At least you could remove the filler powers and replace them with something useful (Sonic Repulsion, plus for a set that has a an anti-mez bubble Clarity could be switched for something more useful, imo at least).
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Compared to what else TA does, I would say that is as specialized as TA gets since even OSA does -res if you slap an achilles heel proc on it. What else could you possibly even say it specializes in? There are only 4 powers that do anything well and that's EMPA, AA, OSA, and DA, half of those are -res (not counting you can make OSA a -res with a IO proc).
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Originally Posted by Garent
This is a widespread, but inaccurate, belief. The target cap or low radius on the two -res powers in trick arrow result in it being about the same as the other sets that have resistance debuffs, even if you somehow manage to hit every enemy with acid arrow's small area.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=262373 |
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
There are only 4 powers that do anything well and that's EMPA, AA, OSA, and DA, half of those are -res (not counting you can make OSA a -res with a IO proc).
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I didn't know osa could have -res. Awesome
Why is it that you care? I don't have gamer friends. Like literally. I have plenty of other kinds of friends. art friends, school friends, work friends...but no one I can speak to about games.Not a one and let me tell you i've been playing games since I was 6. I really don't appreciate you telling people to stop reading this post. I had an idea and decided to talk about it with those willing to read and respond. It's just rude and unneeded. I would love to talk to you about anything you'd like to talk about on here that's game related. This is just a simple post about a defender primary I enjoy very much and get excited to see in the game. I just wish the best for it.