I Sing The Praises of First Ward
By
Afterimage,
Posted on: 2011-09-19 08:54 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Not really. They explain what's going on in the story arcs. The apparitions aren't quite ghosts.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Interesting tidbit: The Ghost Slaying Axe does not work on Apparitions. That is to say, it damages them with its lethal component same as my Vanguard Axe does, but its special damage component against "true undead" is never triggered. Aren't Apparitions, like... Ghosts? Shouldn't the Ghost Slaying Axe be especially effective against them?
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"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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They're the spirits of the living, I know. I get that it doesn't work on the Vahzilok, but exactly what kind of particular spirit something is is just too fine a hair to split, I think.
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Originally Posted by Arilou
Not really. They explain what's going on in the story arcs. The apparitions aren't quite ghosts.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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They're not undead, the spirits of the deceased, they're broken-off pieces of still-living personalities. They're more like severed arms still twitching than anything else.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
They're the spirits of the living, I know. I get that it doesn't work on the Vahzilok, but exactly what kind of particular spirit something is is just too fine a hair to split, I think.
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"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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How do you define "death?"
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Originally Posted by Arilou
They're not undead, the spirits of the deceased, they're broken-off pieces of still-living personalities. They're more like severed arms still twitching than anything else.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I don't think Sam's done the Makwa arc yet and hasn't actually spoken to the room of full of dead spirits
I've got to put my kudos in as well. I just flashbacked the whole First Ward story arc and it's nothing short of amazing. If this is the class of story arcs we have to look forward to, I can't wait for what else is to come. Thanks for the great work!!
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They were great, too bad it ended so abruptly at Vanessa.
Alot of questions still unanswered here.
I loved it, I think it great.
I also hated the fact that my character is treated both as a praetorian (why?) and a moron, specially in the later arcs.
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None of the arcs treat players as either of those things |
Originally Posted by Cass_
I also hated the fact that my character is treated both as a praetorian (why?) and a moron, specially in the later arcs.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There is a lot of it.|
Originally Posted by Cass_
I loved it, I think it great.
I also hated the fact that my character is treated both as a praetorian (why?) and a moron, specially in the later arcs. |
Have to admit, after Katie being such a pancake, I'm not going to shed any tears.
It seems to me that the folks wondering why Katie is so unpleasant to you and to the world in general might not be giving enough weight to the fact that, after she rescued many unlinked Seers and brought them to First Ward, you blundered into her hideout while possessed and let in a bunch of apparitions which murdered all the Seers she saved.
I think that might cause someone to be a little bitter.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
I wonder where her dad is? We rescued him from the BAF in GR, but she doesn't mention him anywhere in the FW missions.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
My only complaint about the entire zone is:
Why don't the Sharks attack you when you get too close?
It would be too cool if they would just take a bite out of you.
"My life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely pretty and well preserved, but rather I will skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...WOW...What a Ride"
Only managed to do the first two arcs this weekend before I out-leveled the whole area. My own fault for waiting 'til the late 20s to start out of how buff I heard the enemies are (and they really weren't...so far at least). Really enjoyed them. It's a great setting, though I'm not sure if it's connection to Praetoria serves or detracts from it.
Though on the "Praetoria" side of things, it's nice to see that the story takes my view of Calvin Scott and runs with it.
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It kinda has to be set there, because the whole situation would be hard to have on Pirmal Earth, where there wouldn't be any areas that were cut off and abandoned for so long like that.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
It's a great setting, though I'm not sure if it's connection to Praetoria serves or detracts from it.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I don't have a problem with Kathie being bitter and angry. I'd expect anyone living in the First Ward to be on edge. I have a problem with Kathie being sarcastic, condescending and bratty. There's a difference between an initially jovial child losing her positive outlook on the world and becoming disillusioned and possibly cynical... And a kind person turning into Black Scorpion.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
It seems to me that the folks wondering why Katie is so unpleasant to you and to the world in general might not be giving enough weight to the fact that, after she rescued many unlinked Seers and brought them to First Ward, you blundered into her hideout while possessed and let in a bunch of apparitions which murdered all the Seers she saved.
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Simply put, people don't change like that. That's not to say people don't change period, but when they do change, they change around the basis of their personality. Noble Savage is a good example. He starts out as a raging but honourable monster, he turns around to become a loyal and faithful ally to the Resistance and then turns around when spurned and descends back into monstrosity, with his dignity now reigned in to only apply to those close to him personally. Yet in all of this, Noble Savage is still Noble Savage.
Vasilokos, on the other hand, seems to have swapped actors. When first rescued, he's a calm, collected GHOUL who's willing to talk and who serves as the reason which keeps the other Ghouls' violence in check. Yet in First Ward, it seems like most of the Forlorn are level-headed, peaceful people trapped in a violent world while Vasilokos threatens to wear people's neck veins and just about orders the new Monarch to kill the Hetman. That's not character development, that's character replacement. This is no longer Vasilokos, as he appears to have been replaced by Angelo Vendetti.
And Kathie is even a more expressed example. She starts out acting like a little kind, and later matures to assume responsibility for the Seers she has rescued, recognising the hardships but accepting them as necessary. Then the first thing you hear from her is along the lines of "Hey! What are you waiting for! Give me a hand here!" This is a completely different person, and not in the slightest consistent with who and what Kathie was. She hasn't become disillusioned or angry, she has become ANNOYING. There's a difference. It's like having to deal with Mender Tesseract - constant sarcastic abuse even in the face of success.
In Going Rogue, Kathie Douglass was one of the coolest, most likeable characters in the whole game. I always did her arc in full because I simply liked working with her. First Ward has done the impossible by making me not give a crap about Kathie Douglass and her endless nagging, and I honestly don't care if she ever leaves the Seer network thereafter, because even if Vanessa says she'll take the blame, Kathie will still find SOME way to nag on me because I exist.
First Ward has an overall great storyline, even if it ends abruptly, but it also represents the death knell of one of the game's most interesting characters. In a sense, if Kathie had DIED somewhere along the way, she might have come out a lot better for it, even if it's an off-screen death like Vasilokos. Anything is better than that kind of character assassination.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That doesn't mean it has to be in either. It could be in yet another dimension (which, in a way, might tie in the whole "Coming Storm is a threat to the whole multiverse" aspect better), or somewhen else in time (ala Cimerora). Not that there aren't aspects of the continuing Praetorian storyline that I like about it. I just feel like it might've come into its own better as its own world. But that also may change as I do the later arcs.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It kinda has to be set there, because the whole situation would be hard to have on Pirmal Earth, where there wouldn't be any areas that were cut off and abandoned for so long like that.
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It could have been another world, but the post-apocalyptic setting was already in place in Praetoria, and it made sense to use it to extend the Praetorian content while also helping to tie it in with Primal Earth - it's a much smoother meeting of the two worlds than some of the level 20 exit missions, and it also helps to fill in the some of the level and story gap between GR and the Praetorian invasion storyline.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
That doesn't mean it has to be in either. It could be in yet another dimension (which, in a way, might tie in the whole "Coming Storm is a threat to the whole multiverse" aspect better), or somewhen else in time (ala Cimerora). Not that there aren't aspects of the continuing Praetorian storyline that I like about it. I just feel like it might've come into its own better as its own world. But that also may change as I do the later arcs.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure you were never intended to have a chance to actually kill him. (If you haven't already run into him again as an ally, you will.) You're assuming/expecting a degree of choice that isn't actually present in the content. All you get to decide is whether to be Paragon or Renegade in your conversation with him. :/
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
For instance, the DUST leader in question gave me two options, effectively "Stand down" and "I break your neck!" I presumed that threatening the man with breaking his neck would make him reluctant to answer my question, so I ordered him to stand down, whereupon he hopped up and said "So you're letting us go?" What? No! Well, apparently I am, because I had inadvertently chosen the mercy option. I never even suspect the choice was between murder and mercy, I just thought I'd get a little bit more flavour text if I treated him better, plus my villain is very polite, but the game interpreted my politeness as a desire to ally myself with the DUST leader, and I'm sure that'll come back to play a role later in the storyline. Why? I wanted to kill him, I just didn't want to be a dick about it.
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My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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True, I didn't replay the mission to check the other choice, but I don't see why I can't kill him. His only other role in the storyline is to show up to help me and - in my run - die anyway. I assume that if he's dead, he simply won't show up. I draw this conclusion from the Vincent Ross arc, where you get different allies at the end depending on who you work for, or NO ally at the end if you pick no-one to work for on the side. I see no reason why I can't kill this guy and just run the mission with no NPC ally or, worse, come into the mission to face an angry spirit or some such.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure you were never intended to have a chance to actually kill him. (If you haven't already run into him again as an ally, you will.) You're assuming/expecting a degree of choice that isn't actually present in the content. All you get to decide is whether to be Paragon or Renegade in your conversation with him. :/
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think Sam has this pegged quite well.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
In Going Rogue, Kathie Douglass was one of the coolest, most likeable characters in the whole game. I always did her arc in full because I simply liked working with her. First Ward has done the impossible by making me not give a crap about Kathie Douglass and her endless nagging, and I honestly don't care if she ever leaves the Seer network thereafter, because even if Vanessa says she'll take the blame, Kathie will still find SOME way to nag on me because I exist.
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The character I played in First Ward isn't a Praetorian.
The only Katie she met was First Ward Katie. And with no out of character meta-knowledge, someone that she won't miss in the least. And that's a shame.
I think that Katie and Diabolique will turn up somepalce in a future Trial, going by the way their stories are left open at the end of FW, and the way that Vanessa, Dominatrix and Marauder all have some foreshadowing in their FW appearances to the Lambda and Underground Trials.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Am I the only person who found The Awakened to be a) ridiculously over-numerous and b) ridiculously overpowered? I'm all for more challenge, but I'm sure I died more in those missions (with help no less) than I did in all the previous years I've played this game...
The Awakened should have Rikti/Arachnos/Longbow XP.
Playing through Katie Douglas and I wanted to share my favorite bits of internal dialogue:
"Whenever you want to make yourself feel better, Katie, come and get me...you will lose just like those several hundred Awakened lying on the ground behind me (Yay "Snooze Button" badge!).
And my latest one, "You can call me 'Killer' if I can call you Crazy A*** See You Next Tuesday."
EDIT: And for someone so lippy, she should at least not be made out of ghetto grade wet tissue paper.
Interesting tidbit: The Ghost Slaying Axe does not work on Apparitions. That is to say, it damages them with its lethal component same as my Vanguard Axe does, but its special damage component against "true undead" is never triggered. Aren't Apparitions, like... Ghosts? Shouldn't the Ghost Slaying Axe be especially effective against them?