VIDEO: Mind/FF AV Soloing. No Temp Powers. No -Regen
By
Atomic_Toy_Guy,
Posted on: 2011-09-07 23:04 in Controllers
Damn, that is very impressive, grats. Quick question though, just out of curiosity, can you be the main tank on teams for missions or TFs? Or is this build just mainly for soloing?
Quote:
Risk. |
Originally Posted by MisterD
Ok..it is your opinion. In mine, I hardly see how an ill troller getting a few extra rech is somehow less impressive than you using incarnate pets.
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With perma unkillable pets grabbing aggro from the AV, the Illusionist faces almost zero risk. With the WarTroller way, the controller is taking the full brunt of the attack from the AV (or pylon, or whatever is being soloed).
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Quote:
You can be the main tank. |
Originally Posted by _UJ_
Damn, that is very impressive, grats. Quick question though, just out of curiosity, can you be the main tank on teams for missions or TFs? Or is this build just mainly for soloing?
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For taking the alpha, you have several choices:
* Super Speed + Fissure as an opener.
* AoE control as an opener.
* Raise PFF, dive into pile, alpha goes off, drop PFF, hit them with control as an opener.
* With decent ranged defense + Dispersion Bubble going, use Provoke as opener. I often jump to the back of the group when doing this so that all the baddies that are aggroed on me turn around 180 degrees. This makes it easy to see where I'm missiing aggro.
Different varients of a WarTroller have additional options. Ill/FF can open with PA. Plant/FF can open with Creepers.
Once the fight gets going, use controls to lock down as much as possible and Provoke to keep misc aggro on you.
I've tanked for teams many times with my WarTrollers. I just haven't captured in on video yet as I'm more concerned with keeping the team safe than running video. Soloing I can take my time and get everything set up the way I want it.
Edit:
I just wanted to add my usual caveat and say a Tanker is always the best tank. The only time I tank for teams is when the tanker dies, or there just is no tanker. When there's a tanker there, I play the Controller role.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Ya, this thread inspires me to want to make one of these, now just need to make a build, I saw the one posted in this thread that Boomie posted, I will probably use that as a starting point on what I need to slot for, but I care more about tanking for a team with this combo, so I will probably use earth mastery if that is better for tanking? And ya I will just tank if there is no tanker, but I think it would be fun to tank on a controller :P
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The first two videos I posted both contain shots of the builds and slotting used. They're at the end of each video.
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Originally Posted by _UJ_
Ya, this thread inspires me to want to make one of these, now just need to make a build, I saw the one posted in this thread that Boomie posted, I will probably use that as a starting point on what I need to slot for, but I care more about tanking for a team with this combo, so I will probably use earth mastery if that is better for tanking? And ya I will just tank if there is no tanker, but I think it would be fun to tank on a controller :P
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That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
First off, gratz on your kills and nice vids. The 3rd one was the most fun to watch, some hairy moments.
Small nit to pick: Call to Justice is a temp power. At least, it's in my temp powers tray in-game; I'm not sure if there's some other definition for 'temp power'. Nor do I think the use of that power made all that much difference, like I said: small nit.
Have you tried this with envenomed dagger? How much faster does it go, and will one temp power last thru an AV fight? What about an even-con (not -1) AV? Tried any bigger game? I didn't watch long enough to look at your build, how well do you fare against non-s/l AVs?
Will the taunt stop Dominatrix from running?
While it may not match the dmg of pyronic, void might be useful to cut incoming dmg. Any thoughts/experience with this?
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It's the same as the difference between Batman and Batman with a Green Lantern power ring. |
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
What's the difference between a pet that comes with the character, and a pet you get on a temporary basis?
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The more the importance of the AT and Primary/Secondary powersets is diminished, the less impressive the victory becomes as it's no longer a victory for the character but rather a victory for extraneous powers.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Yep. Whether it's a temp pet or not is irrelevant, if there was an incarnate giant beam of doom power that made soloing AV's a breeze, the same would apply.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
It's the same as the difference between Batman and Batman with a Green Lantern power ring.
The more the importance of the AT and Primary/Secondary powersets is diminished, the less impressive the victory becomes as it's no longer a victory for the character but rather a victory for extraneous powers. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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I haven't done any detailed testing with envenomed dagger. I've used it from time to time in groups and didn't notice that it had much of an effect on the time it takes to kill the AV.|
Originally Posted by EJI
Have you tried this with envenomed dagger? How much faster does it go, and will one temp power last thru an AV fight?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EJI
What about an even-con (not -1) AV?
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I have done it with the confuse a boss method and it works. The boss scales up in level along with the AV.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EJI
Tried any bigger game?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EJI
I didn't watch long enough to look at your build, how well do you fare against non-s/l AVs?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EJI
Will the taunt stop Dominatrix from running?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EJI
While it may not match the dmg of pyronic, void might be useful to cut incoming dmg. Any thoughts/experience with this?
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That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Quote:
The question was about soloing, not whether or not the win was impressive.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
It's the same as the difference between Batman and Batman with a Green Lantern power ring.
The more the importance of the AT and Primary/Secondary powersets is diminished, the less impressive the victory becomes as it's no longer a victory for the character but rather a victory for extraneous powers. |
What's impressive and what's not is subjective. You'll never convince me that buying +recharge from the store and having the perma unkillable pets do all the work while the controller hides behind a pillar is impressive. Never. My own definition of impressive involves risk. How much risk is the player presented with and how well does he deal with that risk. But I freely admit, it's my own definition.
Soloing, on the other hand, is pretty cut and dry. If you're the only player there, you're soloing. That's the _definition_ of soloing.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
This same debate came up for Defenders and Tankers and I pretty much felt the same way there; incarnate powers are powers that belong to the character. Force Field (and to some extent sets like Empathy and Thermal) happen to be able to leverage that a lot better than some other sets. That is just one of those things in the "new normal" of the game. Buff heavy sets can buff these super strong pets and get very good mileage out of them. Tankers can manage the aggro that would go to the pets and keep it squarely on them. In other words, these previously "team only" abilities that few players classically valued suddenly have much more meaning in the late solo game. I think it's silly to say that it's okay to use Destiny and Interface but not Lore just because it's a pet.
IMO the right answer to whether this is "impressive" is basically that the legacy ability of some sets to solo AVs itself is no longer as impressive as it once was, because soloing an AV is no longer such a hurdle. Illusion might be able to handle harder stuff, sometimes. But those pets put out a heck of a lot of DPS, and whoever can keep them alive long enough to dish it out is suddenly in a very good position. In a limited set of cases an Illusion/Force Field might actually outperform some other Illusionists due to its ability to keep the pet DPS up, particularly in comparison to something like Radiation. Cold Domination, built right, should be able to do both.
TLDR; welcome to Freedom, where nothing is the way it was.
Also, congrats on the solo. Whether the set is impressive is a different question, IMO, than whether a player found some measure of success with an unlikely combo.
BTW below would be another partial suggested build for Mind/FF in Issue 21. The build still has room for some tweaking. The space at lvl 30 could be used for Burnout (or whatever the name of the ability is that recharges all your powers at the expense of endurance). Supposedly in Issue 21 you can pick up the APP powers starting at 35, and that's something I'd definitely want out of Mind/FF. This is a generalist build for solo/missions/trials. It assumes you are chasing the Spiritual alpha tree. It almost soft capped to Ranged but not quite; IMO its unlikely to matter much but you could toy with it.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mesmerize -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Dominate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Deflection Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(5), DefBuff-I(15)
Level 6: Levitate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 8: Confuse -- CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(A), CoPers-Conf(15), CoPers-Conf%(17), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(17), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(23), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Insulation Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(37), DefBuff-I(50)
Level 12: Mass Hypnosis -- FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(42), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(43), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(43), FtnHyp-Plct%(43)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(39)
Level 16: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 18: Total Domination -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(40), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(40), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(42)
Level 20: Dispersion Bubble -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(21), RedFtn-Def(21), RedFtn-EndRdx(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), HO:Cyto(36), DefBuff-I(39)
Level 24: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(36), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(48), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 26: Terrify -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(31), Posi-Dmg/Rng(34), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 30: [Empty] -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Mlais-Acc/Rchg(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(33), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx(33), Mlais-Conf/Rng(33), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 35: Power Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(48), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Posi-Dmg/Rng(50)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 44: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 49: Force Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), EndMod-I(3)
Code:
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According to my in-game description, the radial side of the Void tree 'significantly reduces the damage of affected targets for a short time'. I'm not sure if it's enough to make a significant difference in an AV fight. I don't believe -dam is resisted by AVs.
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Originally Posted by magicj
Haven't tried it but if I remember correctly, AVs resist -ToHit debuffs.
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Quote:
Ah, thanks for the tip. My Ill/FF has the power, so I'll be able to test it once I finish getting her incarnate powers.
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Originally Posted by EJI
According to my in-game description, the radial side of the Void tree 'significantly reduces the damage of affected targets for a short time'. I'm not sure if it's enough to make a significant difference in an AV fight. I don't believe -dam is resisted by AVs.
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That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
WhisperWitch Vs. Shadowhunter
Here's a 4th video, this one vs Shadowhunter. It includes a high speed recording of the entire timed mission, to give an idea how the Mind/FF WarTroller build works vs things other than AVs. This mission settings include:
● Player equal to 4 players
● Bosses
● AVs
The video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nml5LEtyjig
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Quote:
I pretty much solo on 4/8 with my toons unless its incarnate or a TF / SF to be honest. I'm just greedy and feel I have a better chance of getting a key purple drop solo then with a team, even if its faster with a team on the same setting.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Game balance: How I miss thee...
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Back in the day you would have tons of players asking for help with an AV mission because they really needed the help. Today players are just asking if you want to join just to get the badge if you need it and if they ask today for real help sadly in the back of my mind I think wow they must bad not to be able to handle the AV on a -1 /1 setting. I know its retarded but just being honest. The Alpha level bump alone is extremely helpful.
But it is nice to see someone other then a tank, scrapper, brute, or trapster soloing the big guys. Plus by today's standards that is a long fight. Kudos for just wasting your time trying to do this. I soloed the 2 AVs in the Incarnate missions on my Robot Traps before understanding the whole non AV setting options ( now when I do those missions I am set to -1 /1 no AVs regardless of the toon I am using). It was painfully slow. Afterwards I was annoyed because in my mind I was thinking I could have done 3 missions in the time spent wasting fighting those 2 AVs.
If you notice, now even the BAF and LAM incarnates are getting a bit faster and the mobs are dropping faster.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Quote:
I pretty much agree. Soloing AVs and pylons and such is a good way to test what your toon can do, but it's not an efficient way to kill AVs. And since AVs have different rules for beating them than almost everything else in the game, the ability to solo AVs isn't even a good reflection on the abilities of the toon in general. But it is nice to know you can do it if the team needs it.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
But it is nice to see someone other then a tank, scrapper, brute, or trapster soloing the big guys. Plus by today's standards that is a long fight. Kudos for just wasting your time trying to do this. I soloed the 2 AVs in the Incarnate missions on my Robot Traps before understanding the whole non AV setting options ( now when I do those missions I am set to -1 /1 no AVs regardless of the toon I am using). It was painfully slow. Afterwards I was annoyed because in my mind I was thinking I could have done 3 missions in the time spent wasting fighting those 2 AVs.
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But I will chime in for my video where I solo Shadowhunter. That video shows how to clear an entire mission. If you want to see how a WarTroller solos, that's the video to watch. The video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nml5LEtyjig
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Gratz on more AVs!
Your avatar seems to have photobucketed away =(
Is wartroller the name of your toon? I keep reading it Wart Roller. :P
This video is Vs a rikti pylon, several AVs, and the Scrapper Challenge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfck_URQSTc
I've had a chance now to test a few different configurations of incarnate powers. For soloing AVs and such, I'd currently suggest Void as the AoE (for its -damage), Longbow as the pet (for it's range, damage, and -Regen), Ageless for the buff (for its +Recharge and +Recovery), Reactive for the debuff (for its -Resistance), and Muscular for the Alpha (For +Damage).
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
As far as I'm concerned I could care less that you can do this or that with incarnate powers. Big whoop. I would imagine you could defeat AV's with a pet less MM with incarnate powers doing all the lifting for you.
Quote:
You missed the point. |
Originally Posted by Atomic_Toy_Guy
As far as I'm concerned I could care less that you can do this or that with incarnate powers. Big whoop. I would imagine you could defeat AV's with a pet less MM with incarnate powers doing all the lifting for you.
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But I guess you cared somewhat, if you expended a few calories of energy to post your displeasure.
I'm glad to see Mind/FF doing something not commonly thought of as possible. The results matter, not the tools.
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
Well, he IS the only actual PLAYER. Most times, a second player brings far more to the table than a couple pets.
Usually.
What we have here is a semantics debate. He's the only player... but with 2 I-Pets, more damage is being dealt than if he has a second player with him. As long as the player can keep the Pets safe (mind you, their AI is no better than the boss), the encounter is far easier than if there were a second player and neither were using I-Pets.
Let me ask this: If a Stormy uses Tornado and Lightning storm, are they no longer soloing? Those powers do the same thing as a pet: provide an independent source of damage and mitigation. What about an Electric Blaster using Voltaic Sentinel? What about Controllers and Dominators actual pets? Can it be said that MMs with their pets out aren't soloing? What about villain PPPs that have the Pet as a T5? What's the difference between a pet that comes with the character, and a pet you get on a temporary basis? At what point is it no longer soloing?
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)